Why Creation Is The Only Logical Explanation...

a reply to: Miccey
God is "without beginning and end" by definition. It is one of his axioms so to speak. It is idea as triangle or square. All those entities I can somehow imagine and perfectly share with others, but I CAN NOT PROOF THEIR EXISTENCE IN EMPIRICAL/PHYSICAL WORLD. Euclidean geometry is not valid in relativistic mechanics, but still its perfectly inter-subjective way of sharing IDEAS. God is valid concept as IDEA.

What the helllll ... there is 2.500 years old gigantomachia peri tes ousias and here we are repeating discussion which had some meaning maybe 2.000 years ago - at kindergarten.

Sometime I wish Luther was never born. Bible belt troglodytes are often worse Holy inquisition.

originally posted by: Miccey
How can one belive that GOD is without beginning
and end...

And not the universe?!?

There is NO evidence on the BigBang..Indications and theories yes.
But NO EVIDENCE.....

Erm, actually there is a lot of evidence about the Big Bang. Here's a primer.

originally posted by: JanAmosComenius
found another gem:

"(Genesis 1:2) . . .Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s active force was moving about over the surface of the waters."

Sun was shining long before liquid water emerged on Earth surface. Maybe Gods eternal presence shielded Earth from sun rays in this period.

Read it slowly
The earth was formless, that means it didn't have a form, no form, it had NO form
Do you comprehend what the word form means
I can understand if you don't use english a first language, so read thinking
NO form, formless

Desolate, desolate means contained nothing, had no life, nothing

As I read those words I think formless, desolate, yes it is water and nothing else.
What it does not say clearly is what you imply, liquid water emerged on earths surface? What?

Explain how you came to that understanding from those words, not your beliefs, your pre conceived thoughts, those words or any other from Genesis for that matter

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Miccey
How can one belive that GOD is without beginning
and end...

And not the universe?!?

There is NO evidence on the BigBang..Indications and theories yes.
But NO EVIDENCE.....

Erm, actually there is a lot of evidence about the Big Bang. Here's a primer.

That all looks like evidence for God creating.

Big Bang from nothing, elements from nothing, laws from nothing, life from nothing.
Planets solar system forming from nothing

That's what we call creation, a supernatural design

It's evidence of a Big Bang, not even nearly close

a reply to: Raggedyman

When Earth was formed, it was really HOT melted rock. Why? Take hammer, smash it few times against some rigid surface and than test the head of hammer with your palm. It will be warm. Kinetic energy transformed to heat. Earth was formed by collisions of chunks of matter. Kinetic energy of those collisions was transformed to heat - and it is lot of heat on planetary scale.

We have melted rock where liquid water is not physically possible and this melted rock have form of ball - same as now cold Earth have today - its gravity dude. In this stage there was Sun shining on this melted rock. Earth had to cool down to hold water in liquid state on its surface. This water came from outer parts of Solar system long after creation of form of Earth. During this process, Sun was still shining.

Is there some logical gap if I say: There was a light BEFORE any water surface emerged on Earth?

If not, Genesis account is inaccurate because it propose water surface before creation of light.

Sorry for my sloppy English - may I offer you another language?

BTW lot of my understanding of astrophysics came from Dr. Grygar who is scientist and Christian believer. Maybe he is bad scientist and/or bad believer.

a reply to: JanAmosComenius

Jan

It's clear English is not your first language, I don't have a second language

I want you to note what I said, even better you should understand how hard words and phrases are to translate exactly

Can you tell me why the earth was hot when it formed, I don't have an answer.
Most explosions blow away, not matter into itself, explosions in space don't collide
Why did it collide
Where did the energy come from for the explosion,where did the matter come from

Where did the gravity come from, where did the light come from


Why couldn't there be water before light.

a reply to: Raggedyman

She just explained it...

Gravity pulling chucks of rock together would naturally create extreme heat...

Even Small rocks floating in space have a certain amount of gravity... Larger ones would attract smaller ones and over a long period of time, would form a planet...

the earth wasn't created by an explosion... though it is a product of exploding stars

a reply to: Akragon

Thank you wholeheartedly.

And bye bye in this thread - I have no more energy to explain elementary school physics. I tried and failed.

I find it sad that in these time people will still follow the teachings of others. An extreme minority in suits and ties make elaborate claims that science can explain everything and everyone parrots it despite none of them understanding the "science"

If the president of America suddenly announced that the world was truly flat and it was all a conspiracy by Freemasons everyone would believe.

a reply to: LordOrobos

Well no...

Everyone wouldn't believe... Most would laugh... Well, the uneducated people might...

Fundies might, and celebrate...

Thats about it...

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Miccey
How can one belive that GOD is without beginning
and end...

And not the universe?!?

There is NO evidence on the BigBang..Indications and theories yes.
But NO EVIDENCE.....

Erm, actually there is a lot of evidence about the Big Bang. Here's a primer.

No No No...

Define EVIDENCE...

THEN define INDICATIONS...

Its like U.F.O

UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT.... Not little green men in
a sauser.... !!UNIDENTIFIED!!

Indications.... NOT evidence

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

She just explained it...

Gravity pulling chucks of rock together would naturally create extreme heat...

Even Small rocks floating in space have a certain amount of gravity... Larger ones would attract smaller ones and over a long period of time, would form a planet...

the earth wasn't created by an explosion... though it is a product of exploding stars

I just can't understand how you fundamentalists think Ak

Gravity?
Where does gravity come from

Poor Jan has run out of energy, where did the energy come from, where did it go

What evidence do you have

Smiley faces don't constitute evidence

Where did the gravity come from

Jan has tried to explain high school physics but failed because he doesn't understand it, evidently neither of you can explain anything more than what, how about how and why

Proof, not what I can see, I want to know why

Take your fundamental attitude of belief without evidence and take it to your chosen religion

a reply to: Raggedyman

Proof, not what I can see, I want to know why

Its pretty simple...

You don't read other members replies...

or you don't understand them, so you mock them instead...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

Proof, not what I can see, I want to know why

Its pretty simple...

You don't read other members replies...

or you don't understand them, so you mock them instead...

I just love the way you sidestep an answer

Just another ploy?
Anything to smear, nothing to justify

I asked where DD gravity come from

Remember that Ak

Where did gravity come from

I have lots of genuine questions and you say they have been answered

Sick of religios fundamentalists around here

Evolition and the big bang is a false lie spread by the atheists and socilaists..

Ita clear the World is 6 thousands years old, the bible is CLEAR on that.

All this supposed "evidence" of evolution and a longer earth is fake and placed by communists and/or the devil to lead us astray!

Oh Wow.....

a reply to: Raggedyman

Proof, not what I can see, I want to know why

thats a bald faced lie. you arent interested in proof or evidence, you are interested in opportunities to score points for your team. thats all these threads are ever about. its a shame we have so many members with the resources and comprehension to actually help you and others with the kinds of questions youre asking, and all their efforts are wasted because you (and others) dont sincerely want help in understanding, actually understanding, how science has brought us to the conclusions you keep trying to debunk. just trying to make sincere people look stupid.

for the love of odin, osiris and krishna, why is this thread still alive?!

ETA: relevant quote from another thread that has proceeded very similarly to this one, regarding several other threads of a nearly identical nature.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: Phantom423

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423

Debate? Give me the time and the place. It's about time one of you (or all of you - doesn't matter to me), steps up to the plate and presents your evidence.

Come up with some stipulations of victory. What determines the winner? Voting from observers would be too biased, unless we got a group of undecided people (regarding evo or ID). Or is it simply a mental exercise?

You name the time and the place. I'll be there.

West end of the reflecting pool in Washington DC at noon would be regal enough. ATS forum on a weekend might be the most convenient though.

Well are you up to a debate or not? The other guy didn't answer so I'll take that as a no.

If you're not, just say so and we'll be done with it.

Thanks

spoiler alert: its a waste of your time.

Evolution debate

Another evolution debate

ANOTHER evolution debate

Yet another evolution debate

Wait, again? Seriously?

....*sigh*

this is an exercise of pride for some members, they derive satisfaction from frustrating you and others. now that i have posted the links here, i imagine we can just let the willing educate themselves on the matter. the rest will not be moved no matter what lengths you go to.

i realize that evolution is a somewhat narrow term for the quagmire of ill conceived tangents that comprise these threads, but most evolution threads dont really stick purely to evolutionary theory anyway. its a broad brush stroke that touches on all the core issues of these virtual mudslinging matches.

but anyway, thats my piece for this thread. time to enjoy the sunshine and forget about all this nonsense for a little while.

originally posted by: Americanpatriot123
Evolition and the big bang is a false lie spread by the atheists and socilaists..

Ita clear the World is 6 thousands years old, the bible is CLEAR on that.

All this supposed "evidence" of evolution and a longer earth is fake and placed by communists and/or the devil to lead us astray!

Perhaps learning the history of some of the science you deride would be beneficial. Big Bang was first postulated Father Georges Lamaitre, a Belgian Catholic priest and Physics Professor at Catholic University of Leuven. Darwin was a Christian until the day he died. Neither of these Scientific Theories are the product of Atheism in any way.

originally posted by: Americanpatriot123
Evolition and the big bang is a false lie spread by the atheists and socilaists..

Ita clear the World is 6 thousands years old, the bible is CLEAR on that.

All this supposed "evidence" of evolution and a longer earth is fake and placed by communists and/or the devil to lead us astray!

Erm, what????
Say what again?

a reply to: Americanpatriot123

Hahaha

Are you trolling or do you really believe that garbage.
Why would scientists lie? For what purpose.
Did they create dinosaur bones And place them all over the world?

The bible has so many things wrong with it that it's not even funny. We know for a fact that many events didn't take place as the bible says and common sense can lead us to know that other things in the bible didn't happen.