The Bible Taught us a lot of Astronomy

a reply to: FearYourMind

You're playing the victim card now... "oh, us poor Christians, if only people would empathise with us."

What did you expect?

You made a statement that the Bible is somehow an accurate scientific document... it's not. It is mostly fictitious, with references to a few possible real events and places... The beauty of the Bible as a piece of literature is its prose, and interpretive depth, but that in no way makes it scientific, or a tome of accurate knowledge.

Discussing it from an interpretive stance is great... trying to turn those interpretations into facts is intellectually dishonest... that's the reason these types of threads degenerate because the religious are so emotionally invested in their holy book, that they take offense at any criticism.

a reply to: andy06shake

If God would condemn a mortal to agony for an eternity.
Then God is not merciful. If God is not merciful we wouldn't
even be here sinning against him day and night.

originally posted by: puzzlesphere
a reply to: FearYourMind

You're playing the victim card now... "oh, us poor Christians, if only people would empathise with us."

What did you expect?

You made a statement that the Bible is somehow an accurate scientific document... it's not. It is mostly fictitious, with references to a few possible real events and places... The beauty of the Bible as a piece of literature is its prose, and interpretive depth, but that in no way makes it scientific, or a tome of accurate knowledge.

Discussing it from an interpretive stance is great... trying to turn those interpretations into facts is intellectually dishonest... that's the reason these types of threads degenerate because the religious are so emotionally invested in their holy book, that they take offense at any criticism.

Where did I say it was an accurate scientific document? All I said is people of the days of Genesis knew the Earth wasn't flat and that it floated in a expanding universe. You are putting words in my mouth.

a reply to: FearYourMind

Hell is simply a control construct, in essence its God saying do this or do that or i will spank you in the next verse. I ask you what kind of creator with only our best intentions at heart, and that loves us unconditionally, would ever consign our eternal soul to oblivion?

And why give us freewill if indeed predestination is already determined? One is not exactly synonymous with the other. Point of fact there are in direct contradiction.

I said that science and the Bible can go hand in hand. That doesn't mean the Bible is scientific. I also said that the Bible is not the enemy of science or vice versa.

a reply to: randyvs

In what way is it a lie?

Jesus says that the damned will be cast into everlasting fire where there will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Now the way I see it there are two main interpretations one can come to. Either this is a description of an eternity of torment, as Revelations later suggests, or at the very least this is a description of being burned alive and then utterly annihilated (as Annihilationists believe).

In Revelations it says "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever", now to be fair this is talking about those who worship the beast however if you believe Revelation that's still MOST of the human beings alive at the end of the world (because God sends a strong delusion to make sure everyone worships the beast).

So at the very least billions of human beings are meant to be tormented forever and many Christians believe this includes all sinners (as per the list in Revelation 21:8). Satan, his angels, and the Beast shall also be tortured forever, with the Beast being released after a thousand years to tempt people.

What I said was a completely reasonable reading of the text and certainly a reasonable representation of what many Christians still believe about Hell.

a reply to: randyvs

But we are! And therein lies the conundrum.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: FearYourMind

Hell is simply a control construct, in essence its God saying do this or do that or i will spank you in the next verse. I ask you what kind of creator with only our best intentions at heart, and that loves us unconditionally, would ever cosine our eternal soul to oblivion?

And why give us freewill if indeed predestination is already determined? One is not exactly synonymous with the other.

I've always asked myself that same question to be honest. When Satan fell with his demonic angels, a war started and I believe we are a creation of God who loves us and believes good will prevail over evil. I also ask myself, why would God not destroy Satan. Well, apparently his day will come. Then I ask myself, what will happen to all of those people in hell when Satan is finally finished off? Apparently, they remain there for eternity with or without him. So, very good question.

a reply to: Titen-Sxull

I don't believe all sinners go to hell as long as they have asked for forgiveness. It's that simple really. Just repent and say you are sorry. Now, my experiences with the Lord have been ridiculed so I won't share any more of those, but trust me when I say I know evil exist. And if evil exist, then good or "God" must exist as well. Unless we are trapped in a evil world without hope which I don't believe.

a reply to: FearYourMind

"The Bible taught us a lot about astronomy." Your OP title infers it pretty strongly... then your actual OP tries to interpret scripture to justify that they knew that the world wasn't flat, which is very clearly, not clear.

If anything, the Bible actually seems to be saying that the earth is flat... you just can't see it because you have convinced yourself that circle = round (as in sphere)... which there is no justification for other than your confirmation bias.

a reply to: FearYourMind

Possibly hell or the notion of such would be of our own creation. Sort of like eternal self harm.

God does not want to finish off Satan, apparently its all part of the plan. To my knowledge the alleged entity does not even posses freewill, hence the confliction and ambivalence regarding there relationship and our relationship to an extent.

End of the day it seems like a bet to me, and one that hedged with predestination.

a reply to: FearYourMind

Why have to ask for forgiveness when our fate is already apparently predetermined? All part of his plan. Again this freewill notion is about as real as our notion of freedom or democracy. If indeed it does exist its certainly in short supply.

a reply to: FearYourMind

I don't think I'd ridicule you for your experiences and I'm sorry if I was a bit too harsh on you in this thread but some of the things you've said demonstrate ignorance about the subjects of both Biblical studies and science.

Personally I do not think evil exists in an objective sense, evil is just a label we humans attach to behaviors. I do think we are "alone" in the sense that we humans must live together and work together and do our own moral reasoning. I think that in the last centuries humanity has made some good moral progress, slavery is now illegal across the world, civil rights movements have made people in many countries more equal, women can vote and are treated more equally, gay marriage, etc. We did all that without the intervention of the supernatural, all it took was good men and women to stand up and drag the backwards thinking into the future with them.

a reply to: puzzlesphere

Guess we can agree that we have different interpretations. I don't want to keep going in circles repeating the same thing over and over. I'm sure you don't either. Now, unless there is something new to add I'm taking a break. I will repeat one more time. The King James Version says the Earth is circular. We haven't gone into what the Hebrew and Greek translations say. Also, the Bible says the Earth floats and that it is in a expanding universe. That's my interpretation of it. I understand you disagree. No need to disagree and disagree over and over without adding anything new.

a reply to: FearYourMind

I don't need to say sorry to any external forces, that have apparently predetermined everything, while also giving me free will (?!?).

I will say sorry to those directly that I have wronged, and will come to peace within myself for the existence I have chosen to lead.

If you must know, I had a religious epiphany when I was quite young, where I communed with the universe (what you likely call the holy spirit), and the answer I got back is an overwhelming sense of "you're on your own", in a very good way, as that is the essence of being unique and individuality... no need for any external worship, because just by "being", I am contributing to the tapestry of reality.

Good and evil are perceptions only, there is no supernatural war going on, just the ebb and flow of universal balance.

a reply to: Titen-Sxull

To me good and evil seem like very human constructs, one would imagine they are simply beneath any truly omnipotent being.

Then again i might pay for such arrogance should the singularity actually take place and some benevolent AI decides to spank humanitys bottom for the poor caretakership of our planet.

My point being if God does not exist we will one day create one and become as obsolete our own creator.

This is a interesting lecture by Missler who is a genius and has interpreted the Bible from English, Hebrew to Greek. He has many lectures. He is not a evangelistic healer who claims to raise dead people or anything like that. Just a smart man who tries to decipher the Bible and help people understand. This lecture is about astronomy, science and the Bible.

a reply to: andy06shake

Indeed, ancient gods seem obsessed with very petty things, who you sleep with, what days of the work you week, what holidays you celebrate, animal sacrifces, dietary choices, etc.

An omnipotent being wouldn't bother banning people from eating pork or working on Saturdays. The Greek Gods are equally silly as the Biblical God and most other ancient gods. If people want to have a belief in God that's fine but it seems odd to me that humanity still clings to some of the really ancient and off-putting myths.

a reply to: puzzlesphere

Yes. You don't need a preacher, church or anyone else outside yourself to be with the Holy Spirit and walk with Christ or at least be a good person and you won't have to worry about it. Or at least, I wouldn't worry about it. Good people don't go to hell in my opinion.

a reply to: Titen-Sxull

Nowhere in the Bible does it say, nor did Jesus ever speak of
people being tormented for eternity. The absolute undeniable
fact of the matter is, as you well know. That revelation defines
the lake of fire as the second death. So as i said it, the way i
said it. Those that do not choose life, do not have their names
written in the book of life. And are cast into the lake of fire.

So as I'm sure I've gone over this with you before by recollection.
Even the atheists end up getting exactly what they want i.e.
that life is a space between to nothings. But only after they
see what fools they've been. "The fool says in his heart, there is
no God! Then comes death, then judgement". And that speaks
of truth also, that being a quickening. Because once you are at
that point. It's the same as when we get older when we say,
where did all the time go. By example. I know what this all
means to you. But please you can do your job just as well
what ever that is, without that one lie?

a reply to: andy06shake

I would have thought it means perfectly God is merciful.
No condumbdrum.