Full Bob Lazar/George Knapp UFO Congress Session video is up!

a reply to: redtic

Have you considered another option?

Lazar arrived at S4 (Area 51) was exposed to some real (and some not so real) experiments, secrets and information. This was all part of his "probationary period" and a test to see if he would keep his mouth shut.
He didn't and so he failed.

a reply to: mirageman

Given that as a proposition, one wonders what may have been on the back end of such a test. If the hovering saucer is real, what could they possibly be hiding?
We have to ask, right?

a reply to: mirageman

You just summed up where I "lean" when it comes to the BL story mirageman, I know I would enjoy putting a few back with you next time I get to Great Britain (my mother's family is from Henley on Thames in case you're wondering why I used the word "home").

Like I said in an earlier post, there are seemingly as many improbable truths as there are holes in this story.

That's just not fair to do to a critical thinker!

originally posted by: verschickter
A question.
Some may know "Project Camelot" (I distance myself from them).
Years ago, before ATS, I downloaded the whole project camelot article for offline reading and I gave a copy to a friend.
Unfortunally, I can´t reach him now and I searched my harddrives for the folder but could not find it.
The reason why I ask is, it seems they pulled the Lazar interviews. (Probably one of the few saner ones)
I´m sure they were there but are not anymore.

If you do not know Project Camelot, you have to check that out. Hilarious!
I´m fascinated how tricky and sneaky they act as of "recent". You have to see it with your own eyes to comprehend. Things like finishing the sentence for the interviewer. In one particular interview, the interviewed person tells them he watched every video and article and then about ten sentences into the script, sells them the whole BS again but as his own.
And they marvel about how other sources also told that. I seldom facepalm but that made me do it.

project camelot is a tricky subject. i don't trust them one bit, but they had their share of interesting guests.

that being said, if i understand it correctly (i've stopped following the whole situation quite some time ago), there was a split between Bill and Kerry. i may be wrong, but i think Kerry went on to run project camelot (two sites it seems, project camelot portal and project camelot productions), while Bill runs project avalon (he was the sane one, imho).

old project camelot website redirects to project camelot portal right now, but... that's just for the main url. the whole page with old list of interviews can be accessed directly.

projectcamelot.org...

a reply to: Springer

So as we are talking about Robert Lazar being a victim of what is basically a psy op. My question remains the same.
What is being hidden, given that Mr Lazar's experience is real in his own mind.
Or am I missing something?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: redtic

Have you considered another option?

Lazar arrived at S4 (Area 51) was exposed to some real (and some not so real) experiments, secrets and information. This was all part of his "probationary period" and a test to see if he would keep his mouth shut.
He didn't and so he failed.

So they built a completely operational flying disc with a completely unknown and pretty advanced propulsion system just to... test people?

Meh... I will instead forever buy he just was part of some sort of advanced program and when kicked, he took revenge and made up the 'alien' part, which, again, makes no sense, but hey, there's a lot of crazy people all over the world.

It's pretty clear he worked at Los Alamos and most likely at Area 51. Read the work of Knapp about this issue.

originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: redtic

Because I know people he knows very well and they've never lied to me, I've never seen him pitch a book, a video or a CD, go on a speaker's circuit (in spite of the fact I know he's been offered thousands in guaranteed money plus a large percentage of the door [ticket sales] to do so), etc...

RE: Occam's razor, your point is why I can't say I believe what he says with no reservations or doubts. Too many oddities, holes, and requirements to suspend disbelief. That said, my mind has changed on Lazar over the years, considerably.

A decade ago I was convinced he was charlatan trying to get fame and glory, but he never DID anything to support my suspicions. I've also become good friends with George Knapp over the last decade plus and have learned much that I didn't know before. I can no longer decide what I think, there are as many improbable truths, that are really true as there are holes in the story.

Anyway, what I think doesn't matter, George told me he is carving an hour out of his Saturday (day after tomorrow) to write up his current personal thoughts on this post this latest interview...

Tune in over the weekend I'm pretty sure it will be a good read.

I am dying to read this lol...

Can't wait till the weekend hits!!

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: redtic

Have you considered another option?

Lazar arrived at S4 (Area 51) was exposed to some real (and some not so real) experiments, secrets and information. This was all part of his "probationary period" and a test to see if he would keep his mouth shut.
He didn't and so he failed.

No, but I suppose there's an infinite number of options to consider. I think this is less about whether he's telling truth, and more about the lack of evidence. As with most in the UFO arena, he's making some pretty extraordinary claims, and, well, you know what Mr Sagan had to say about that. Why should I believe a proven liar regarding such claims?

But, alas, I'll be back to read up on what Mr Knapp has to say. Thanks, Springer, for organizing that, and for all else you do, for that matter.

One of the most interesting excerpts from this interview, is where Lazar essentially validates Billy Meier's photographs.
It went by quickly, but the implication is such that there is so much more that we just have to know. Billy is another one that stood his ground all those years with the best of de-bunkers trying , still unsuccessfully, to discredit him.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

Yes you are right I noticed it too.
Project avalon (Bill) went online on the 8.9.2008
Project camelot (Bill+Kerry) went online on the 16.7.2006
Project Serpo (Bill) went online on the 13.12.2005

Then they splitted but now it seems they are working together again.
Bill looks like he´s the one maintaning the sites because the first upload from Camelot uses the style from Serpo.
But this time they went full loco with the latest theories.

Thank you for the link, but I waybackmachined (forgot about that) the interview collection and came to the conclusion they never had any Lazar interviews directly. Thats not a surprise either because how shy Lazar seems to be.

I´ve always got the impression, too, that Bill is the saner one. Kerry on the other side...She seems to believe everything that ties remotely to something she heard before. Total lack of overview.

The latest thing:
"We were told we are right in many subjects but are let alone because we do not release all information."

On our last night together, sitting out in the open after a barbecue, at about 2 am, Jake decided to tell me some things he had not previously revealed, surveillance or no surveillance. As he began to speak, he immediately encountered problems, as if trying to force himself through a barrier. Simultaneously, I found I was being put to sleep and could hardly keep my eyes open. We both spotted what was happening, and remarked on it to one another. Jake forced himself to keep talking, and I made myself keep listening through a spell of overwhelming dopiness. This episode lasted half an hour or maybe more. We were being forcibly stopped, in real time, from communicating effectively, as a direct and immediate response to our intentions.

No, it could not have been the wine and late hour, it had to be the AI surveilance system watching them
Or something in both drinks to make that effect. Just a thought ^^

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: stormbringer1701

What I realise is that as much as I would like Bob Lazar's tale to be true there are just far to many inconsistency regarding his story, element 115 and its property's being only one of them. As to how we managed to synthesize ununpentium I'm not really sure, just that it certainly does not seem to do what it says on Bob Lazars tin. Like I said I would love his story to be true but let's face it the fact that the Man is still alive pritty much discounts his story.

Edit: Did Lazar not also say that element 115 could only be produced naturally in a binary star system, and that it could not be produced or even synthesized in our system?

and that would have been true then. it had not been synthesisized. the technology and procedure had not been invented. now it has. i fail to see why the fact that we can now synthesize a few atoms of it with two decades of technical development makes him a liar. Pardon me if that is not your gist. but if it is; that's infantile.

Bob or maybe some of his follow on (mimickers isn't the right word) indeed said that it was produced in certain rare binary star systems at the end of thier evolution. something like a wolf Rayette binary. strong stuff there. millions of time more powerful than a supernova. They are called hyper novas in astronomy.

it is logical. because even though the right sort of particle collision would be rare a single hyper nova event would be expected to make prodigious amounts anyway due to the volumes and energies involved. plus even supernovas don't produce "much" super heavy elements beyond even uranium and a tiny bit plutonium. not that we would be able to verify that they don't produce transuranic element s except by using math and models. but a hyper nova would no doubt have the requisite energy and material to cook up transuranic/plutonic heavies with every possible number of neutrons. all in quantities that conceivably could be located and harvested. maybe a few hundred tons ( wild Assed Guess) of it per hyper nova.

and by few hundred tons i mean that is solid and in clumps. If it is spread accoss a nebula as a plasma it does no one any good without some sort of bussard scoop or something like that. it has to concentrate in localized manner like gold and other heavies do in a water shed. And it probably does. like Solar He III does on the surface of the moon. but i suppose it could be by gravity in a secondary planetary nebula formed from the echoes of the hyper nova.

a reply to: Masterjaden

The laws have changed since the 70's. They are less forgiving as a result of things just like the example you give. Lazur is a nutcase who has a serious case of wanting to feel important.

originally posted by: JackHill
Sure, so they go outside the base and in the exactly moment and place he predicted a curious 'ship' appears at some distance making incredible maneuvers.

And... it just crushed your entire theory.

If only

IFF these events really happened, they are either staged events, meant to be witnessed - or they are some not overly important experiments.

I tend to believe they were staged, for if you're testdriving a very secret apparatus, you normally don't do it in a predicatable way,. That would allow spies to set up camera's etc. to film the event and hence learn what you're up to. Also, in real life, when you're experimenting with complex stuff, things get in the way of a overly predictable timetable. Sometimes the darned thing does not work at all. Sometimes the researchers ask for postponement of the flight to recontemplate the tests - after all: testing is expensive and you really want to test effectively and efficiently. Sometimes the weather gets in the way. Sometime people are ill. Stuff like that.

But say they DID fly some secret device there, according to some (rather silly) precise timetable. Even then, that does not mean that Bob worked with ET craft (nor that they even exist). Say that Bob worked there as a hired hadn, say he was an electronics engineer hired to help assemble electronic devices for secret planes, something like that - he would surely be able to read the announcements on the notice boards to warn personnel to stay out of certain areas during certain times. Or he may have overheard some people talking about it. So, in no way does the story that he was able to predict the "flight of the UFO's" mean he really worked with ET craft.

a reply to: Jonjonj

Given that as a proposition, one wonders what may have been on the back end of such a test. If the hovering saucer is real, what could they possibly be hiding? We have to ask, right?

We have to ask yes!

But how do we know anything is real?

David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear once didn't he?



No it's still there, isn't it?

Lazar's W2 (if genuine) suggests (even for 1989) he did not work long for the "Department of Naval Intelligence" (if that exists) by the fact that he earned less than $1000 whilst there.



Say back in 1979 you found out that the ads for a science fiction movie were coming from Studio Six Productions and that the company was actually owned by the CIA? What would you think?


So sorry for that very long winded answer. If it was an answer at all.

What I am saying is that there are some things we experience with our own senses but aren't real.

Some things that can't be verified.

And other things we know for sure but can't ever see the big picture to make sense of it all.

The Lazar story is a permanent head scratcher to me for all those reasons. But also why I am still drawn to it after all these years.

did anyone notice that the first video was taken down by youtube?

a reply to: jedi_hamster

Yes, and I also checked out "open mind production" (maybe they were the ones who filmed) but they do not have those lazar videos on their channel. Hm....
"copyright claims"
I mailed them and asked
#
Why did you let youtube takedown this vid?
www.youtube.com...
Why did you not release it if it´s under your copyright?
#
I do not expect an answer...

a reply to: mirageman

-Copperfield performed an illusion, nothing actually disappeared.
-That's probably a $1000 per week. Which is not bad circa 1989
-They werent retrieving aliens in Iran

a reply to: Jubei42

Perhaps I rambled too much earlier and I think you may have misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

So I'll try to re-phrase it.

* Yes Copperfield performed an illusion. Some things we experience with our own senses aren't real. So how do we know Bob Lazar was not the subject of similar trickery to make him believe he'd seen real advanced tech flying saucers? It may have been part of a test for new employees to see if he would keep his mouth shut.

* Correct me if I'm wrong because I am not a US citizen but I did check on the internet. Isn't a W2 similar to a P45 in the UK? Something which reports an employee's annual wages and tax collected? My point was that Lazar couldn't have worked too long at S4 if he only earned $958.11 in 1989. So he could have earned that in a week. But that proves he wasn't there very long! Thus reinforcing the view that he was part of some initial test. (If of course that's a real W2)

* If say back in 1979 you were told that the CIA had set up Studio Six Productions but not why. Then you would not be able to establish it had anything to do with getting the American Embassy staff out of Iran. So even though you have some knowledge of government secrecy it does not give you a big enough picture to understand what is really going on.

Lazar has given us information about his experiences at A51 (and they may actually be the truth as he saw it). However it really doesn't help us work out what the full picture is. Because there is probably a hell of a lot more we don't know.

a reply to: mirageman

optical illusion is something else. Lazar stated it clearly that there's no way in hell they could fake that gravity field - and he felt it with his own hands.

you can't fake some things without a technology at such a high level that there's actually no point in faking.