Shot fired by security guard at public meeting after his assault repelled by citizen (must see)

originally posted by: Mugly

im worried that people are gonna start taking shots for the smallest slights against them

I think the stats will show you're orders of magnitude more likely to be shot by a cop/guard than a CCW holder.

a reply to: Bedlam

that may be true but foe arguments sake do those stats count all shots fired or just the hits?

even so....i still think about running around with concealed weapons and it worries me a bit and one of the reasons is things like this video.

just dont want to see shots going off for # that does not warrant that kind of response

i love how one of them says call 911 and then like 3 seconds later all those thick ass corn fed mansfeld boys rush in. then they start calling the camera guy an animal and youre gonna spend the rest of your life in jail now mother #er

wow

originally posted by: Mugly
a reply to: Bedlam

that may be true but foe arguments sake do those stats count all shots fired or just the hits?

Oddly enough, on average, CCW holders are better shots than cops, IMHO, based on teaching various pistol courses in IDPA long ago.

You can certainly find very good shooters in law enforcement. There are some who really work at it, or are former service, or both. But a lot of the rank and file guys sort of slop their way through pistol quals. It's insanely anecdotal, but if your cop looks like he's into Crossfit, he's more likely a good shot than if he is Sgt Kruller or Trooper Trenbolone. Also, as you go up the ladder from local LEO to a Statie, they tend to be better shots. But that's just my broadbrush opinion. And I knew a small town city cop who was about 350 pounds and a power lifter who drew and shot a guy in midair in semi-dark once, like shooting skeet.

However, your average CCW holder is likely an enthusiast who spends a lot of range time with that weapon. And they don't have qualified immunity. So what's going through their heads is "If I do this, and miss, and hit someone, I will never see the light of day again". Of course, you also have a number of thickos who think they can just buy one at Larry's and they are now Rambo. So it's not across the board either way.

a reply to: Bedlam

your post makes sense but i still think about it.
there are a lot of cowboys out there that want to 'save the day'

a reply to: Mugly

I can't help but muse that an armed citizenry at public meetings of this nature would certainly have toned down the guards' approach...the manhandling would not have happened. If he had been asked to leave at all it would have probably been done in an extremely polite fashion. Not like it'll happen anytime soon, but it would certainly have changed the social dynamics of the situation.

originally posted by: engineercutout
a reply to: Mugly

I can't help but muse that an armed citizenry at public meetings of this nature would certainly have toned down the guards' approach...the manhandling would not have happened. If he had been asked to leave at all it would have probably been done in an extremely polite fashion. Not like it'll happen anytime soon, but it would certainly have changed the social dynamics of the situation.

possibly.
if the cowboy guard would have used some of his big boy words instead of just trying to grab this dudes # it probably would not have escalated either. you know. say who he is and can you come with me?
then if the guy starts acting up maybe dial 911
and why did the cowboy try to grab his camera? camera not allowed in that meeting?
if so, then why did they even allow him to enter with it.

a reply to: Mugly

if things like this happen by guards in city meetings with cameras rolling, what do you think is gonna happen when people get into an argument or a little scuffle in a parking lot or a store?

im worried that people are gonna start taking shots for the smallest slights against them

Then you don't know any CCW holders. We are more likely to go to great lengths to defuse a situation, rather than let it escalate to violence. For most of us, we know carrying a gun does not make you invincible. It does make you realize there are plenty of prison cells just waiting for the moron who draws and shoots for no good reason. We are much more likely to hit our target with far fewer rounds expended, also.
As for people taking shots for the smallest slights....They said the same thing when Illinois finally passed a concealed carry law. They were just waiting for it to turn in to the Old West, so they could start screaming "We told You So!".
They're still waiting.

a reply to: DAVID64

i know a couple ccw guys.
my uncle and step dad to name a couple.
i dont think they have the right attitude about it but whatever

a reply to: FlyingFox

Personally speaking, I believe that the camera wielding citizens reaction to having his right to go about his business unmolested violated, is of a sort which there should be more of. Perhaps there would be less willingness on the part of hired goons to behave in a clearly illegal fashion toward citizens.

Security guard or whatever he is shouldn't have walked up and grabbed his camera without so much as a word to him.

He shouldn't have jumped up and started throwing blows.

Security whatever he is shouldn't have pulled his piece, for a number of reasons. Like a lot of reasons.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

originally posted by: FlyingFox
Some day I'll post some of my private videos on ATS.

Why not now?

We could do with some entertainment

a reply to: Bedlam

Your avatar reminds me of a muppet.

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: Bedlam

Your avatar reminds me of a muppet.

An ugly one at that.

Yea.. the whole situation was handled awkwardly. Who tries to kill someone with their firearm after getting in a small fist fight with an old man? An old man who doesn't appear to weight lift or have muscle tone.

Then there is all the awkward communication and touching without consent. Cavemen had better communication skills than that group of people.

a reply to: blueman12

a cowboy does. thats who
too bad camera guy was using old school pancrase style open palm strikes

a reply to: Mandroid7

When security came in they already had intent to lay hands on the guy with the camera. Whatever the lady told them, she knew they were going to handle the guy.

Why? Notice how the woman who summoned security had her phone recording? She adjusts it after it falls and points it towards the camera man just as mustache man is walking up.

Further, the topic of the ID was a hot point between that guard and the guy with the camera. The camera man hesitates to say ID, the moment he does the security guard pipes up and struts his way over.

Ghost

a reply to: FlyingFox

The "citizen" assaulted the man, so I have little sympathy. He escalated that situation beyond what was reasonable.
You can argue about whether it's right or wrong to be denied the opportunity to film in a meeting all you like, that DOESN'T excuse the man assaulting him in any way.

The security guy probably shouldn't have grabbed him like that, but he in turn shouldn't have then flown into a violent fit and forced the man to defend himself.

Both of these guys are idiots, but the guy waving his fists around like a wind-up toy is the one who deserves to be in jail.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: FlyingFox

The "citizen" assaulted the man, so I have little sympathy. He escalated that situation beyond what was reasonable.
You can argue about whether it's right or wrong to be denied the opportunity to film in a meeting all you like, that DOESN'T excuse the man assaulting him in any way.

The security guy probably shouldn't have grabbed him like that, but he in turn shouldn't have then flown into a violent fit and forced the man to defend himself.

Both of these guys are idiots, but the guy waving his fists around like a wind-up toy is the one who deserves to be in jail.

Except the security guy was the one winding up the toy.

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge

originally posted by: FlyingFox
Some day I'll post some of my private videos on ATS.

Why not now?

We could do with some entertainment

I was recording a twp meeting when this animal assaulted me....

i15.photobucket.com...

i15.photobucket.com...

i15.photobucket.com...

i15.photobucket.com...

i15.photobucket.com...

I just happen to have the stills.

She was cheered and charged.

My new neighbor who was trying to drive us out of our home so he could acquire contiguous property.

I have another full-length of one of his goon opening my car door and fighting me for my camera after I caught the duo riding quads in the park on a public road. I was charged w/harassment for videotaping their crime. The guy was charged similarly for fighting me, not for trying to steal my camera or destroy evidence of his crime. I don't have that vid handy, but maybe in the future.