Homosexuality Is Not A Choice

originally posted by: Metallicus
So if they have determined the cause for this particular sexual deviancy can they now cure it? What about other sexual deviants? Can other disorders also be rooted in genetics?

Also, if this defect is genetic wouldn't it eventually breed itself into extinction?

Very good article and good information.

Sorry, but I see quite a bit of ignorance in this post.

Being gay is a recessive trait, just like having blue eyes or blond hair is. These may or may not breed themselves into extinction, but it would take many thousands of years.

Some can say sexual deviancy is any deviation from the norm; or others may say deviation from societally accepted behavior. Since what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is socially accepted by most people, you cannot label it sexual deviancy.

I'm more interested in the disorder of people who would like to direct and control other people who are doing nothing wrong, I guess I know that the disorder called "judgement" just arises from the egos need to create separation.

Personally I think the world would be a much better place if we all worked on recognizing ego and stopped minding other people's business in situations that caused no harm and didn't really affect us; and ironically in fact this was Jesus' true message to us - recognize and minimize your egos - but he never said it directly, you know the whole parables and allegory thing.

originally posted by: SPECULUM

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: SPECULUM

Ah, I see.

Is it at all an issue for your consensus when there is research in, say, twin studies, where both twins were subjected to the same environmental factors, yet one happens to be homosexual and the other does not? I'm just trying to understand your position a bit better

Don't get me wrong, there are biological instances where women are born in men's bodies and visa versa, or people having multiple sexual organs and so on, Just as there are people who are missing body parts and born retarded. Abnormalities in the human condition Happens...For some we have no clue? for others we know exactly why, but the fact remains that a defect from what is known as normal in nature is a Defect

Oh, I understand. So your approach to the subject is that Homosexuality is not a choice, but a defect. Correct?

Before I continue, do you accept or reject the theory of evolution?

I'm pretty sure homosexuals are in full control of their choices...

a reply to: Kromlech

Most people are in full control over their actions. However we don't have the luxury of having full control over our desires. You can control what you do, not what you want to do.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: SPECULUM

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: SPECULUM
Oh, I understand. So your approach to the subject is that Homosexuality is not a choice, but a defect. Correct?

Before I continue, do you accept or reject the theory of evolution?

Actually i believe in both by design and evolution, but in the case of homosexuality, if possibly it could be a defect error or even possibly a virus..lets say for instance..Toxoplasma Gondii. If left unrecognized or untreated could jeopardize the entire human race, as the productive numbers fall and the diseased numbers rise. Could you just imagine a global sterility due to a Toxoplasma Gayndii Pandemic?

edit on 30-6-2015 by SPECULUM because: Cowbell

It's clear that a lot of people in this thread need a primer in behavior genetics. With very few exceptions there is no clear cut distinction between nature and nurture. There is also no singular gay gene. Instead there are a number of genes that predispose one to homosexual behavior. The more a person has of these genes the less environmental stimuli required to express the behavior. Have enough of these genes and that triggering stimuli may be something as simple as hormone balance in the womb. Have a few of the genes and you may need greater or more stimuli to trigger the behavior. This means that homosexuality is not a choice. The person has no control over the environmental stimuli they come across in life and they have no control over how their genes express. It's entirely possible that someone could have a number of the genes that predispose them to homosexuality but they never trigger.

This also explains how homosexuality perpetuates. First there are those that carry some of the genes that never manifest the behavior. They will then pass these genes on to future generations where the behavior may express itself. It's also rare for a gene to have a single function. For example of know of a gene linked to homosexuality that is also linked to higher female virility.

Homosexuality like almost all human behavior is genetic in some way. But it's also a little more complicated than that. In the end though homosexuality is not a choice.

a reply to: Ghost147
Actually i believe in both by design and evolution. But in the case of homosexuality. If possibly it could be a defect error or even possibly a virus?..lets say for instance.."Toxoplasma Gondii" If left unrecognized or untreated, could jeopardize the entire human race, as the productive numbers fall and the diseased numbers rise. Could you just imagine a global sterility due to a Toxoplasma Gayndii Pandemic?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Extremely well put.

originally posted by: SPECULUM
a reply to: Ghost147
If possibly it could be a defect error or even possibly a virus?

Well it's good to see that you have some sort of education on Evolution, it'll make my explanation a bit easier to understand.

As you know Evolution is fueled by mutation, genetic drift, natural selection, and so forth. So when a mutation occurs that is beneficial to the survivability of a population, it is "selected" for due to it's ability to continue it's own existence through the reproduction of the individuals it resides in. In some cases when a mutation is no longer needed, or is selected for yet doesn't really provide anything extra or against the survivability of the population, some times it remains in the population simply because it's relatively neutral. That's why you see "junk" DNA or mutations that serve no function at all. For instance, males (in Homo sapiens) have nipples, yet they are completely useless for us. Sometimes it just "costs" too much energy to get rid of something than to just keep it without it providing any sort of benefit or disadvantage.

Now, with Homosexuality, we can see the benefits it has in other species. In many species it's just a simple case of practice for actual heterosexual reproduction. In other cases it is absolutely necessary to keep a population alive due to the stimulation that is received in order to trigger fertility. In Humans, we don't really see these benefits as we see them in many other species, however, it could simply be the same case as i mentioned before. Just a random mutation that isn't really harming the population, therefore is not really being weeded out like a negatively-impacting mutation might have had happen to it.

This concept also would explain away a viral-like concept as well, as this sort of recessive and dormant genetic coding simply has always existed in our species (from what we've been able to tell through our history and homosexual acts within closely related species).

a reply to: Ghost147

Understood. But if that's the case? the earth is seeing a rise in the numbers in all races, which could only mean several things?..Its a better choice, or a grave failure? Lets just suppose that the Dinosaurs weren't actually destroyed by starvation, asteroid or climate change, but what really happened was they Evolved sexually into Homosexuals and their production and life cycle ended there. and that even, if lets say 25% remained productive, over time the Junk Gene would ultimately win out..Lets say

I still think its a form of T.Gondii infestation. If you know anything of this Parasite? it alters brain pattern to cause its hosts to like other species they would normally hate or kill, which for humans could cause them to desire same sex.......And Cats...Lol

originally posted by: SPECULUM
Understood. But if that's the case? the earth is seeing a rise in the numbers in all races, which could only mean several things?..Its a better choice, or a grave failure?

I wasn't aware that homosexuality in all races is rising in population. How did you come to that conclusion?

originally posted by: SPECULUM
Lets just suppose that the Dinosaurs weren't actually destroyed by starvation, asteroid or climate change, but what really happened was they Evolved sexually into Homosexuals and their production and life cycle ended there. and that even, if lets say 25% remained productive, over time the Junk Gene would ultimately win out..Lets say

I would say that's a highly speculative conclusion, even for a hypothetical situation. At the moment (and to my knowledge) we aren't really seeing homosexuality being a negatively impacting phenomenon, so if it did occur in that time, I don't see why it would eventually cause an extinction. Especially considering that Homosexuality isn't contagious, there for it wouldn't really just spread from species to species. In fact, we know of some species that exist today, such as in some whiptail lizard species, where homosexual behavior is a necessity to induce ovulation and thus reproduction.

a reply to: SPECULUM

Except that ignores a few things. First, no evidence of a parasite has been found in the brains of homosexuals that would cause the behavior. Second, a parasite wouldn't cause hanged in the gross anatomy of the brain. There are studies that show certain major structures in the brain of homosexuals are like those of the opposite gender (ie a homosexual male's brain is like that of a heterosexual female.) This can't be explained by a parasite. This can't even be explained by neuroplasticity. This can only be explained by genetics.

a reply to: Ghost147

Going back to evolution. The Herpes virus is one of the oldest surviving viruses on the planet. over 75% of the global population has contracted variants of the Virus and really no one has a complete knowledge of its impact on the human gene. So really there could be a number of evolved viruses, like or Herpes that like Herpes is literately impossible at this time to kill, but mostly to identify that alter genetics code similar to a T.Gondii Parasite.

I suppose if a lonely tribe of all males or female had no procreators due to famine or some other atrocity 50,000 years ago, Homosex evolution may have been introduced into the genome for survival until they happened along on opposite sex tribes, where their offspring possibly could have transported a newly evolved gay Gene

a reply to: SPECULUM

I think it is safe to say some dinosaurs were also gay seeing we have gay birds.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: SPECULUM

I think it is safe to say some dinosaurs were also gay seeing we have gay birds.

Thats how the Dinosaurs evolved with colorful flashy feathers

a reply to: SPECULUM

As Xcalibur254 explained, there's nothing about homosexuality that suggests it's any sort of infection, virus, or disease. In fact, everything points to natural, genetic, solutions.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: SPECULUM

As Xcalibur254 explained, there's nothing about homosexuality that suggests it's any sort of infection, virus, or disease. In fact, everything points to natural, genetic, solutions.

In time i'll be proven right by science...Just wait

a reply to: Ghost147

They will all get to the Gay pod people soon enough.
Once they have attempted to go through other things to blame for gay people....
THERE IS NOTHING TO BLAME.

It really is like the xmen movie.
People still think they can cure it....

a reply to: boymonkey74

Mutant and Proud...Mutant and Proud

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Ghost147

They will all get to the Gay pod people soon enough.
Once they have attempted to go through other things to blame for gay people....
THERE IS NOTHING TO BLAME.

It really is like the xmen movie.
People still think they can cure it....

I honestly don't think anyone wants a cure for homosexuals. I think people just don't want it shoved in their faces everywhere they breath, like the Kardashians.

It belongs in the closet where it began..Its an added negative in an already unforgiving world

a reply to: SPECULUM

While we're at it, those Heterosexuals can keep it in the closet also, all these Television shows were they promote straight culture and straight couples, i mean walking down the street seeing all these straight people throw it in my face, i don't want to see girls show their skin that is so eeeewww.

i guess also these religious people with the cross everywhere, on their clothes, tattoos jewelry.

i mean everyone should just keep themselves in the closet and out of my face