Female soccer players sit on sidelines amid protest by Islamic high school team

a reply to: ISeekTruth101
I've got to go, and I feel like I've "lit into you", but the truth is, I like you. You are a gentleman, and I don't hate Islam, by the way, and I speak up for it when I need to.

I just don't like seeing women oppressed. That's my big issue with it.

Anyway bye. Nice to e-meet you.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: ISeekTruth101
I've got to go, and I feel like I've "lit into you", but the truth is, I like you. You are a gentleman, and I don't hate Islam, by the way, and I speak up for it when I need to.

I just don't like seeing women oppressed. That's my big issue with it.

Anyway bye. Nice to e-meet you.

Just for the record, women are oppressed all over the world. And not all Muslim cultures oppress women. In fact, the 3 most populous Muslim majority countries have all had female Heads of State (Indonesia, Pakistan, and Bangladesh). And something like 60% of all the lawyers in Algeria are women.

If you only look at the worse case scenarios, you'll only find the worse case results. But if you look into the moderate & positive scenarios, you'll see that most of the negative stereotypes are flat out wrong.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

This isn't about attraction. This is about being in control of your own base desires. At my age(mid 50's) I can well understand that it is normal to see someone and think "wow,sure would like to be with her". HOWEVER You are supposed to be in control of your emotions,not have your emotions control you. Why can't you understand that we are each responsible for our own actions. It is not 'where we are,or who we are with' that controls them. It is our own brain and maturity.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

I will answer this very simply. I don't expect God to be my 'nanny'. It isn't up to him to 'make me behave'. I should have the self control and the desire to follow his path,not out of fear,but out of love for him. He is the one that gave us the bodies.He is the one that gave us the minds.He is the one that gave us the emotions. But yet its all evil?Then why did he give us these things? He makes evil things?

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

In future they will not make the same mistake, or impose on the American way again by not participating in athletic tournaments that consist of mixed genders.

And you guarantee this how? How do YOU know that it won't happen again? I want your assurances since you sound so sincere about this. I am not trying to be mean or funny. But how do you know for a fact that it will never happen again here? And if and when it does, are the girls supposed to just keep sitting it out like little troopers and not get to play? They joined to play.AGAINST BOYS AS WELL.

Now I have a question. I don't care what anyone one believes,that is strictly up to them in my book.But what I can't help but wonder is why anyone would move to a place that is sooo unlike anything they have ever known,or agree with. This isn't a matter of "well we will in time assimilate into the culture." It is obvious that Muslims have no intention of assimilating at all. So then why move there? What is it that draws Muslims to places they can't agree with,and want to then change those places to suit them? This is an honest question.I can see moving somewhere you have never been before,I am planning on doing just that myself.But I most assuredly do not expect that country to accommodate my beliefs. Let me believe them? Yes,but accommodate me? no

Don't join a league if you know ahead of time that there will be an issue.

Let them forfeit. Religious people are all brain dead fools and I mean all of them, not just these ones.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Now I have a question. I don't care what anyone one believes,that is strictly up to them in my book.But what I can't help but wonder is why anyone would move to a place that is sooo unlike anything they have ever known,or agree with. This isn't a matter of "well we will in time assimilate into the culture." It is obvious that Muslims have no intention of assimilating at all. So then why move there? What is it that draws Muslims to places they can't agree with,and want to then change those places to suit them? This is an honest question.I can see moving somewhere you have never been before,I am planning on doing just that myself.But I most assuredly do not expect that country to accommodate my beliefs. Let me believe them? Yes,but accommodate me? no

Why are you generalizing? Muslims have been in North America since the Europeans first came here. en.wikipedia.org... And between 15-30% of the African slaves were Muslims too. So Muslims have assimilated into America. Just look at American sports stars like Mike Tyson, Bernard Hopkins, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Muhammad Ali, Hakeem Olajuwan, etc. American sports have a lot of Muslims in them.

Muslims even played a major part in the American Civil Rights Movement. There are strong Muslim communities in most African American communities, and there have never been religious tensions between African American Muslims & African American Christians. In fact, if you are bored, look into Islam & hip hop. Nearly the entire early New York rap scene has connections to Islam, especially the "Nation of Islam" and "5 Percent Nation". Many of those rappers are either Muslims, 5 Percenters, or are cool with Muslims. 2Pac even rapped about a friend becoming a Muslim & no longer living a "thug life" in the 1st verse of "I Ain't Mad At Cha". lol (play it from 45 seconds in)



As for why Muslims would move to the West: Some want a better chance at life and some are refugees from Western backed wars in the Middle East. There are a lot of reasons why people move from one country to another. But make no mistake, we've been here this whole time. And like I've stated twice before in this very thread, the actions of this particular school don't reflect the majority of Muslims' views.

originally posted by: thefallenone
Don't join a league if you know ahead of time that there will be an issue.

Let them forfeit. Religious people are all brain dead fools and I mean all of them, not just these ones.

Only a brain-dead fool would think all religious people are brain dead fools. Bite me.

originally posted by: w8tn4it
The little sissies couldn't stand to be beaten by girls!! End of story.

You know , that may possibly be the reason Muslims treat the females the way they do. They are afraid of that level of competition .

originally posted by: thefallenone
Don't join a league if you know ahead of time that there will be an issue.

Let them forfeit. Religious people are all brain dead fools and I mean all of them, not just these ones.

Care to give some citations and elucidate on you declaration that ALL religious people are "brain dead fools" ? Thats a fairly declarative all encompassing statement you made there

I personally don't have much problem here. They offered to forfeit.

a reply to: mobiusmale

You are dealing with a culture that places great value in marital relations. So, the mixing of genders is culturally discouraged to maintain the pureness of the intimacy and monogamy. I see how impossible that concept is for the average westerner, especially in a society that "demoralizes" the sexual nature of its own youth in contrast.

a reply to: Gianfar

No, it's way beyond that. If a man rapes a woman the woman is attacked for it, even though she had no choice.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: WarminIndy

You can talk to me about whatever you like.

Well you I probably can, but suppose you were an imam, what would be appropriate for me to talk to him about?

Suppose an imam and I just happened to be sitting in an airplane in seat next to each other, because that's the way the tickets were. Would he feel ok sitting next to me?

And then suppose I simply asked him a mundane question, would he answer me?

In my life there are many times when I am the only woman in a group of men, because we live in the same building, and we have conversations all the time. It doesn't matter because we are capable of just viewing each other as neighbors. But here is an example of one thing that happened.

When I lived in Cincinnati, the apartment complex was very big, and two doors from me was a young Muslim couple. The woman always wore her head covering when she was out, but she never talked to anyone and she always walked behind him. One morning when I was leaving for work and stepped out of my apartment, the husband also came out of his door at the same time. The wife had stepped out not expecting anyone to tell him something. She was not wearing the head covering. As soon as she saw me, she jumped back inside their apartment.

Why would she feel as though she can't be seen without her head covering? I am another woman, there was no one else but us in the breezeway. I did not know if I could even say good morning to them. I say good morning to everyone, it doesn't matter who they are, but this lady who was afraid of me, I then could not say a neighborly hello to either of them.

If I cannot say hello or good morning as a simple gesture of friendliness to neighbors because they are Muslim men, something is wrong with that. And I can't even say hello to the young woman, because she never could look up, she always walked behind him with her head down. They were recently immigrated and didn't speak English, but they could have known that "Good morning, have a nice day" is simply a neighborly thing to do.

I'm from the Midwest. In our corner of the world, we look at people in the face, greet them and then go on our way. That was four years ago and I still think today that maybe that young lady might have liked to be treated like every other American, but she couldn't because their culture dictated against it.

What crime is there in simply saying hello?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Actually Islam in other parts of the world don't view the Nation of Islam as really being Islamic. The Muslims you are referring to is Nation of Islam, originally founded by Wallace Fard, a white man.

Malcolm X was in Nation of Islam when Elijah Mohammed was head of it, now Louis Farrakhan is. I've heard the arguments from other Muslims about Nation of Islam. I am not so sure that the NOI is taken seriously by the rest.

When you said that Muslims had a part in the Civil Rights Movement, to be historically correct, you should have mentioned the name of the organization, Nation of Islam. They weren't Sunni, Shia or any other branch, they are an American group based in the United States and I don't think they follow all the tenets of the other Islamic groups.

But that's up to Muslims whether or not they accept Nation of Islam, because as I am aware, they aren't. Is Nation of Islam a Muslim Organization?

a reply to: LoverBoy

Yup I remember playing the girls at Hockey....
We all thought it would be easy...I left the field with a fractured shin bone.
They were evil..aiming for our balls and everything.

a reply to: WarminIndy

EDIT: This is in response to your post about sitting beside an Imam & asking questions.

I know this post wasn't directed at me, but you have to understand something. There are many different Islamic denominations, schools of thought, and interpretations. So it would depend on which Imam you're talking about, what denomination he's from, etc. A Wahabi Imam would probably refuse to talk to you because they tend to be misogynists, just like many Ultra Orthodox Jewish leaders. Most other Imams would talk to you though.

My Dad for example, is an Imam and a full time professor. He teaches & has meetings with people of all ethnic groups & backgrounds. And my bloodline has always had strong matriarchs, so we never had that anti-woman viewpoint in the first place. Just saying you shouldn't view all Muslims based on the worse case examples. That would be like me thinking all Christians are like the KKK, since they've historically considered themselves a Christian group.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Actually Islam in other parts of the world don't view the Nation of Islam as really being Islamic. The Muslims you are referring to is Nation of Islam, originally founded by Wallace Fard, a white man.

Malcolm X was in Nation of Islam when Elijah Mohammed was head of it, now Louis Farrakhan is. I've heard the arguments from other Muslims about Nation of Islam. I am not so sure that the NOI is taken seriously by the rest.

When you said that Muslims had a part in the Civil Rights Movement, to be historically correct, you should have mentioned the name of the organization, Nation of Islam. They weren't Sunni, Shia or any other branch, they are an American group based in the United States and I don't think they follow all the tenets of the other Islamic groups.

But that's up to Muslims whether or not they accept Nation of Islam, because as I am aware, they aren't. Is Nation of Islam a Muslim Organization?

Actually that's not true. If you checked the link I listed here, it shows that Muslims have been documented in America since the early 1500s. And African Americans that know their family trees (like myself) can even point to their enslaved ancestors who were Muslims. The early 1800s case of Abdulrahman Ibrahim Ibn Sori is a famous example of enslaved Muslims.

As for the "Nation of Islam", they were a new organization that was founded around 1930, which is several centuries after the first Muslims came to North America. That would be like saying the Mormons started Christianity in America, when it's clearly wrong. Anyway, the original "Nation of Islam" was eventually converted into a mainstream Sunni organization in 1977 ("The American Society of Muslims") and Farrakhan's current organization branched away from them. Most Muslims in the African American communities were not members of the Nation of Islam. There were Muslims in the Black Panthers, as well as many other groups. My own bloodline is full of Muslims & Christians & we were never members of the Nation. [Someone posted that Muslims don't integrate in America so I showed how Muslims have integrated into America, famously as athletes & musicians. Hip Hop is less than 40 years old so that's why I chose the example with the NOI.]

As far as other cultures not accepting the NOI, that actually opens a completely different can of worms. Most Muslims don't talk about it, but there's still a lot of racism against black people in many Muslim majority countries, particularly in the Middle East. Though their "black" deals with many different types of dark brown people, including those from Bangladesh, India, and Africa (look up the "kafala" system & when those countries legally ended slavery). Many Middle Easterners don't consider "black" people as being real Muslims, no matter what we do. The racist ones even call us "Kaffirs", which in the Qur'an means "unbelievers", but is now used like the n-word in America. That's why many Muslim communities outside of America don't accept many black Muslims as real Muslims. Nigeria is half Muslim but many of them face the same stigma from many Middle Eastern Muslims.

And last, as long as a person makes their declaration of faith, they're a Muslim. That's all it takes since a Muslim is simply a person who submits to God. So technically, no human has the right to officially declare another Muslim not a Muslim. The term for that is "takfiri" but that also opens another can of worms which I don't care to go into.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I cannot speak for others.

However may I ask you a question...



You say that the lady may just have wanted to live like a normal American...



Now don't you have the slightest feeling that it may be her choice rather than a dictatorial relationship with her Creator?

For instance...

I'm sure you know that in Christianity & Judaism some women are wholly more devout than some men who follow the faiths...

The same can be said for Islam.

I am fully aware that in some cultures it may appear to be a fully patriarchal society...

But the Ummah across the globe is made up of the devout from both genders.


It just so happens that a lot of Muslim sisters do take the modesty aspect very seriously.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: WarminIndy

I cannot speak for others.

However may I ask you a question...



You say that the lady may just have wanted to live like a normal American...



Now don't you have the slightest feeling that it may be her choice rather than a dictatorial relationship with her Creator?

For instance...

I'm sure you know that in Christianity & Judaism some women are wholly more devout than some men who follow the faiths...

The same can be said for Islam.

I am fully aware that in some cultures it may appear to be a fully patriarchal society...

But the Ummah across the globe is made up of the devout from both genders.


It just so happens that a lot of Muslim sisters do take the modesty aspect very seriously.

I didn't imply that it was because of her religion, but rather the culture. One can be religious and still say hello to their neighbors.

But what modesty idea is broken for her to simply not be afraid of me saying hello? And yet, look at what I was saying, because of the culture, I could not even say hello to the young husband. What kind of culture is that to make it seem a crime of disrespect if as a neighbor I can't even say good morning?

American culture is like this...we say hello because we want to be good neighbors. We take it as rude when the person we are looking at won't even acknowledge the greeting. I am not saying she was rude, she was more afraid. Why?

Maybe where they were from it would be rude for me to say hello, but this is the United States. And why do so many people on ATS from other parts of the world think it is rude when we say things that may be taken the wrong way, even though in our culture it is most appropriate to interact and say what we are thinking?

That's why Americans and probably the Canadians on here who commented on the article think it is very rude of the boys to want to forfeit the game because they were playing against girls. If Muslims want to assimilate into the culture then they are just going to have to get used to the culture. If they don't want to assimilate then stay out of the rest of the culture and society.

Someone mentioned the Amish, yes they stay within their social groups because they don't want to assimilate, therefore we respect them for doing so, because they aren't forcing others to assimilate to them and their ideals.

The Western world is agreeable to openness, because it is part of our culture. If one wants to assimilate, then respect the culture one is assimilating to.