Female soccer players sit on sidelines amid protest by Islamic high school team

The other thing to point out is that if they get booted as some are suggesting should happen, I smell a lawsuit because someone will then sue based on religious discrimination.

It is not fair for the team with girls to be penalized on points which is unique to soccer for the most part. On that I agree, I do not agree that the girls should get upset over whether or not the other team will play with them. That's as silly as someone getting upset because someone else won't play with you on the playground for whatever reason. It's their problem, not the girls' issue.

To try to justify this over the girls' feelings getting hurt is everything that is wrong with modern PC culture IMO. So some boys won't play with you because of their own issues. Deal with it and move on.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Then don't join a co ed league.
I understand they have their beliefs.And no one is telling them to not have those.But the message here is loud and clear.If you sign up for something,and there are females in it,then don't balk and refuse to play because of it.Think about that BEFORE hand so you can decide if it is worth it to you to still join up.

a reply to: ketsuko

This goes beyond that. Think about it.You have worked to get where you are.You are in a competition with another team. All the teams know the rules. Then all of sudden,one team wants to just up and forfeit the game because you are the wrong sex? What does that tell our girls? You aren't good enough to play when things get sticky? They should not have had to sit out,even by their own decision. The coaches should have called the game and gone over the rules right then and there. If the rules state that girls can play on those teams,then tough.Let the other team deal with it.If they forfeit,then penalize them for it. Their beliefs didn't stop them from signing up now did they? They only got in the way when it came time to play against girls. Then let them make their own league and play in that. That way they can enforce their own beliefs in the rule book.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

And this the Islamic teachings is designed to prevent the mistake from taking place in the first place, i.e. by promoting modest interactions you deter any process of illegal interactions such as rape, seduction, extramarital relations.

Okay since you want to go on the religious aspect of this then lets do it. Did God not give people brains? Of course he did,and he EXPECTS us to use them.I can not agree with a religion that acts like a kindergarten classroom trying to 'prevent' its men from having any thing tempt them. Life is full of temptations,it ultimately falls on each person to display control of themselves.

If some men or women are less able to maintain control of themselves,that is both a failing of their parents to raise them properly and a failure of themselves to act like adults. No society can step in and fill that need of control. If it was possible,there would be no crime. There is crime and lots of it,even in Muslim countries. If I was raised in a convent and never had temptation thrown at me,then when I die and get to heaven,I can say "yeah I was good".But was I really? If you don't have temptation thrown at you,you never get stronger.

Now lets go back to this real issue.If you want to live with an Imam telling you how,fine,but America allows people of all religions in,we give people that freedom when they come here. we expect them to be adults and to make up their own minds about what to believe. We also expect them to be respectful of others beliefs as well. I stand by my statement that if they didn't want to play against girls,they should not signed up for that league. If there was no suitable league for them,they should have made their own and excluded females. Play by the rules or don't play.It is very simple. Don't complicate things by forfeiting either.You signed up,you play.You don't want to play with girls,don't sign up.

Oh for the love of God. They discriminated against the opposing team, should have lost by default, and consequently should be banned from other games. How ridiculous is this.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

No the lesson wasn't learned. Because they still got the girls to sit out so they couldn't forfeit.
I am glad I wasn't a parent there that day or there would have been hell to pay. Their beliefs are just that,they are beliefs.It is not set in stone.And it most certainly doesn't apply here in the US where they signed up to play.

That whole "men can't control themselves" is such BS and I'm so tired of hearing it. People really need to grow up and let go of this absolutely Archaic nonsense.

Whatever the reason they discriminated, they discriminated, and we don't tolerate discrimination very well, particularly when it concerns our children.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

How modesty be upheld when Muslim boys are running up and down the pitch physically interacting with other female players, and whatever other physical interactions, or even verbal ones can take place in such a scenario?

Why is it the females are always the ones to pay the price, even for the adult males who are apparently stuck life-long in the throes of a hormonal pubescent? If they can't help but be tempted by the smell of a females hair, then let them put plugs up their nose. (Come to think of it, that's an awesome idea! I advocate nose plugs for Muslim males who can't control themselves. FREE the women!
Let the men attach electrodes to their penis, and if they become aroused by something stupid, let them take a volt or two. That will get them over it. Arm women with cattle prods to save the souls of the men. I'm serious.

They are the ones with the adolescent issues, and yet the females constantly are the ones to suffer for it. One of these days these Muslim women are going to revolt. I hope they live through it.

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

How modesty be upheld when Muslim boys are running up and down the pitch physically interacting with other female players, and whatever other physical interactions, or even verbal ones can take place in such a scenario?

Why is it the females are always the ones to pay the price, even for the adult males who are apparently stuck life-long in the throes of a hormonal pubescent? If they can't help but be tempted by the smell of a females hair, then let them put plugs up their nose. (Come to think of it, that's an awesome idea! I advocate nose plugs for Muslim males who can't control themselves. FREE the women!
Let the men attach electrodes to their penis, and if they become aroused by something stupid, let them take a volt or two. That will get them over it. Arm women with cattle prods to save the souls of the men. I'm serious.

They are the ones with the adolescent issues, and yet the females constantly are the ones to suffer for it. One of these days these Muslim women are going to revolt. I hope they live through it.

lol I think you need to calm down, you have quite an imagination on you. Your ideas are however impractical, and causing self harm is actually against Islam, which your ideas support. Islam is really simple actually, just avoid the situation of needlessly being around other women or men. You can still all go about your lives. This works for most Muslim I have seen growing up, and it has never really been an issue.

Everything I mentioned about temptation applies to women as well btw, I am not just aiming all this at men or boys, don't get me wrong, women face the same temptations as men, perhaps even more. So women are not paying any more of a price then men are.

You want to sit here, and preach to me that guys are not seduced by a womans looks or vice versa, or that guys are not enchanted by the presence of an attractive female? Sorry where did you grow up?

Sounds like you grew up in a fairytale.... oh wait, even in the fairytales that you see coming out of Disneyt this is what happens.

A guy is drawn to a woman, they get talking.. etc etc.

originally posted by: angeldoll
That whole "men can't control themselves" is such BS and I'm so tired of hearing it. People really need to grow up and let go of this absolutely Archaic nonsense.

Whatever the reason they discriminated, they discriminated, and we don't tolerate discrimination very well, particularly when it concerns our children.

But it is not discrimination, you are making it that way. The same Islamic teachings apply to both men and women, boys and girls.

I am saying that it is a 'human' thing to succumb to temptations, not specifically a male or female phenomenon.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

No the lesson wasn't learned. Because they still got the girls to sit out so they couldn't forfeit.
I am glad I wasn't a parent there that day or there would have been hell to pay. Their beliefs are just that,they are beliefs.It is not set in stone.And it most certainly doesn't apply here in the US where they signed up to play.

Well for most Muslims, beliefs are set in stone, because unlike other religions, we don't have new updates that take place every decade, or month. The whole gender segregation thing, and lowering of the gaze to guard modesty and interacting on modest levels between genders is something that won't change until the end of time, for Muslims that is.

I agree that you it was a MISTAKE to sign up, I do not know the full situation on whether they knew beforehand or not. As a Muslim, once you realise you are doing something haram (against the rules of Allah) then you must stop immediately. It is illogical to continue to commit haram actions once you have realised that it is haram. For Muslims it is your guilt conscience letting you know that you should stop right away.

Hence, it is an inconvenience to other parties if they stopped playing, but like I said it is an unfortunate event and no way will the continue doing haram actions just to please others and the American way of life.

In future they will not make the same mistake, or impose on the American way again by not participating in athletic tournaments that consist of mixed genders.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Of course it's oppressive and discriminating. It was 140 degrees in India last week. Muslim women were walking around in black tents. In the desert in the middle east, you see the men wearing nice sheer linens, thin, and white to reflect the sun, while the females are in black which absorbs the heat, and of course, it must be absolutely miserable. And why?

To prevent the male's from being turned on? I know the Old Testament says something to the effect of "If your eye offends you, pluck it out".

I think we need to see more eye-plucking and fewer black tents on women.

And yeah, I was making myself laugh with some of that stuff I said earlier and it was tongue in cheek .......... but come to think of it......

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

And this the Islamic teachings is designed to prevent the mistake from taking place in the first place, i.e. by promoting modest interactions you deter any process of illegal interactions such as rape, seduction, extramarital relations.

Okay since you want to go on the religious aspect of this then lets do it. Did God not give people brains? Of course he did,and he EXPECTS us to use them.I can not agree with a religion that acts like a kindergarten classroom trying to 'prevent' its men from having any thing tempt them. Life is full of temptations,it ultimately falls on each person to display control of themselves.

If some men or women are less able to maintain control of themselves,that is both a failing of their parents to raise them properly and a failure of themselves to act like adults. No society can step in and fill that need of control. If it was possible,there would be no crime. There is crime and lots of it,even in Muslim countries. If I was raised in a convent and never had temptation thrown at me,then when I die and get to heaven,I can say "yeah I was good".But was I really? If you don't have temptation thrown at you,you never get stronger.

Now lets go back to this real issue.If you want to live with an Imam telling you how,fine,but America allows people of all religions in,we give people that freedom when they come here. we expect them to be adults and to make up their own minds about what to believe. We also expect them to be respectful of others beliefs as well. I stand by my statement that if they didn't want to play against girls,they should not signed up for that league. If there was no suitable league for them,they should have made their own and excluded females. Play by the rules or don't play.It is very simple. Don't complicate things by forfeiting either.You signed up,you play.You don't want to play with girls,don't sign up.

Okay play by the rules or don't play at all, I think we have established this already. But they had to forfeit because their religion means more to them than a football match, because when they meet their lord they aren't going to say ''yeah I had to continue doing haram (forbidden things) because of a football match''. That just wont fly.

You don't want to play with girls, then don't sign up - okay I am not sure if they knew this beforehand or not, but I am pretty sure they know that now!

Back to the whole temptation topic - Self control is needed so we are in agreement here, and yes it comes from the individual hence the Muslim girl or boy, man or woman, in any given situation will remember the verse in the quran that talks about the lowering of the gaze and interacting on a modest level with those of the opposite sex. They will the proceed cautiously in life. Removing the temptation all together by getting themselves into sticky situations where certain words of a sexual nature can be thrown around, and arousing someone. Or physical touching can take place, when can again arouse someone.

This is how the human body operates, on impulse and desires. Put a human in that situation, and it is possible to give into those desired and impulse, follow your temptation and BAM, your carrying out illegal relations before you know it.

Islam teaches you to remove any and all possibility right from the onset, here is the greatest degree of self control by avoiding temptations from the beginning and being prepared.

a reply to: Dimithae

It really feels weird having to explain that a man and woman, or a boy and a girl can tempt each other to do 'stuff'.

That a human being has certain desires, and that in a given situation where a male is in the presence of a female, it can manifest into illegal sexual activities (according to Islam) and even worse, things like rape, sexual harassment, abuse.

Most human beings by nature have sexual desires, attraction to the opposite sex, they can succumb to temptations.

How else do relationships form, if no attraction is there?

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Yes it is the norm in Islam, you are incorrect.

Nice try on pretending to preach Islam, you are just making up BS.

Huh? Can you elaborate? I can't read your mind so you'll need to be specific.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Did you not say something along the lines of gender segregation being more of a cultural thing, rather than an Islamic thing?

As in it is not a mainstream Islamic teaching, or the norm in Islam to have gender segregation?

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

This is how the human body operates, on impulse and desires. Put a human in that situation, and it is possible to give into those desired and impulse, follow your temptation and BAM, your carrying out illegal relations before you know it.

No, it's not how it operates. We have our brains and intellect to override such transgressions. I might have the desire to rob a bank. It might cross my mind that I would like to do that. But I know it's wrong, and so I don't. Therefore I have done nothing wrong. I certainly don't demand that banks close, because it occurred to me I might like to have some of what they have.

Islam teaches you to remove any and all possibility right from the onset, here is the greatest degree of self control by avoiding temptations from the beginning and being prepared.

Islam teaches it is the woman's role to prevent the man's transgressions, and she is consequently punished for them. You must know we all know that, as it is quite obviously the case. There is no hiding it, and no making excuses for it.
The Women Pay.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: Dimithae

It really feels weird having to explain that a man and woman, or a boy and a girl can tempt each other to do 'stuff'.

That a human being has certain desires, and that in a given situation where a male is in the presence of a female, it can manifest into illegal sexual activities (according to Islam) and even worse, things like rape, sexual harassment, abuse.

Most human beings by nature have sexual desires, attraction to the opposite sex, they can succumb to temptations.

How else do relationships form, if no attraction is there?

What in world is wrong with being attracted to somebody? That's why we have hormones. It's God way to further reproduction. He also gave us BRAINS to know when to act on and when not to. What is so difficult to comprehend about that? NOBODY jumps into bed with every Tom Dick and Harry, or Jane Doe they are attracted to. For crying out loud, humans are not dogs in heat. We have discretion, and we use it.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Did you not say something along the lines of gender segregation being more of a cultural thing, rather than an Islamic thing?

As in it is not a mainstream Islamic teaching, or the norm in Islam to have gender segregation?

Why don't you go back and read my 1st post? You know, the one you responded to. Especially if you're going to be condescending with your response.

Also, gender segregation is not mandated for us by the Qur'an. You took a passage about the Prophet's wives out of context & used it as a blanket statement for all Muslims. I say it is cultural not religious because not all Muslim cultures practice gender segregation. And many non-Muslim cultures do practice gender segregation (like many Catholic schools & institutions). In fact, if you go in most rural American towns and randomly approach someone's wife or sister, you'll be seen as "out of line" and "disrespectful". And it's the same for approaching a man's wife or daughter in his presence. That's cultural, not religious.

And none of this has anything to do with the OP. This thread is about a school that voluntarily joined a league that allows girls to play. The school was losing & decided to forfeit. They used the excuse that it was because girls were allowed to play. As I brought up in my first post, a Catholic school did the same thing in 2012 in Arizona. Once again, that was cultural not religious, because other Christians don't do the same thing.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: ketsuko

This goes beyond that. Think about it.You have worked to get where you are.You are in a competition with another team. All the teams know the rules. Then all of sudden,one team wants to just up and forfeit the game because you are the wrong sex? What does that tell our girls? You aren't good enough to play when things get sticky? They should not have had to sit out,even by their own decision. The coaches should have called the game and gone over the rules right then and there. If the rules state that girls can play on those teams,then tough.Let the other team deal with it.If they forfeit,then penalize them for it. Their beliefs didn't stop them from signing up now did they? They only got in the way when it came time to play against girls. Then let them make their own league and play in that. That way they can enforce their own beliefs in the rule book.

They joined the league knowing the rules. I agree with that. But unless what they're doing adversely impacts any other team but their own, then so what if they sit on the bench? Let them. The only ones being actually hurt by it are themselves. No one will feel sorry for them. I sure don't. It's their choice.

But likewise, if they signed on knowing the terms and conditions and decide to chalk up a loss rather than risk competing against girls, that's their choice. Sooner or later, the problem will solve itself IMO. They'll either leave or the boys will suck it up and start competing against the girls. Kicking them out only creates more of a fuss.