Female soccer players sit on sidelines amid protest by Islamic high school team

a reply to: ketsuko

For me, the problem is that they are effectively refusing to play and compete, ruining the structure of the league by destroying one of the criteria for a league placing - ie: goal difference over the course of the league championship - this could actually be exploited to cheat/rig the league placings by conceding.

IIRC (?) in pro footie in the uk, conceding a game would result in the opposition being awarded all three points as well as a "result" of something in the region of 6-0 or possibly more which is a rare score-line and more than emphatic.

If that were applied in the league in question it would seem much fairer to me.

Ultimately though, they are refusing to play and that's downright unsporting. So for me they can just go take part in a league that they are actually willing to compete/fully take part in.

They knew the rules.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Don't make me laugh, you are incapable of reasonable discourse with any Muslim

Except of course, all the Muslims I have ongoing enjoyable discourse with both in real life and right here on ATS - all of them in fact - except you.

Your presumptuousness about me should embarrass you - you are clearly not familiar with my posting history - especially in regards to Islam and Muslims, that much is obvious.

a logical explanation - I gave it on behalf of Muslims worldwide. get off your own high horse pal - the universal spokesman for Muslims worldwide you certainly are not - chew that slowly, it might be hard to swallow.

originally posted by: LoverBoy
a reply to: ISeekTruth101
Again, not all Muslims conform to this backward archaic thinking. Don't put your own self control and sexuality issues on Muslims worldwide. Most people as human beings understand self control. Most Muslims are not incapable of playing a sport with a woman because of perverse thoughts that they are scared of acting upon.

Again, do not try to dictate what Muslims should or should not be doing, you are not the authority on what Islam teaches, it is very clear amongst Muslims who truly observe their faith that segregation is required and lowering of the gaze is required. You must be living under a rock if you think otherwise, or you are grossly misinformed into the practises of Islam.

I reiterate - I am not swaying beliefs, merely addressing what Islam teaches and the logic behind it.

I have never in my life had to prove this point about segregation being taught in Islam, so I am dumbfounded as to why any of you believe this to be a cultural issue rather than an Islamic issue.

I can guarantee you, that it is a prescribed Islamic teachings to guard the modesty, not to mix genders where there are no relations, and to lower the gaze once you look an an opposite sex who does not have any relation to you.

This is Islam, do not even try to contort the truth here.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Don't make me laugh, you are incapable of reasonable discourse with any Muslim

Except of course, all the Muslims I have ongoing enjoyable discourse with both in real life and right here on ATS - all of them in fact - except you.

Your presumptuousness about me should embarrass you - you are clearly not familiar with my posting history - especially in regards to Islam and Muslims, that much is obvious.

a logical explanation - I gave it on behalf of Muslims worldwide. get off your own high horse pal - the universal spokesman for Muslims worldwide you certainly are not - chew that slowly, it might be hard to swallow.

I do not need to be familiar with any of your posting history. I cam here, I saw what you wrote and I answered correctly. You have no right to say it is a fail. If you do not agree with it that is fine, but you cannot dictate what Islam teaches, or what Muslims believe.

I have presented the correct Islamic practise, and the reasoning behind it according to scholars, Muslims, and Preachers - In fact it is very easy for your to go youtube and find videos that will back up what I am saying with regards to Islam and segregation.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Don't make me laugh, you are incapable of reasonable discourse with any Muslim

Except of course, all the Muslims I have ongoing enjoyable discourse with both in real life and right here on ATS - all of them in fact - except you.

Your presumptuousness about me should embarrass you - you are clearly not familiar with my posting history - especially in regards to Islam and Muslims, that much is obvious.

a logical explanation - I gave it on behalf of Muslims worldwide. get off your own high horse pal - the universal spokesman for Muslims worldwide you certainly are not - chew that slowly, it might be hard to swallow.

LOL wow??? I have to be the world authority on Islam to explain an Islamic teaching? Dear me....

Chew that slowly you say? How about you swallow the Islamic teachings I have given you today and you try to disprove them?

Otherwise - why are you arguing here?

The meeting together, mixing, and intermingling of men and women in one place, the crowding of them together, and the revealing and exposure of women to men are prohibited by the Law of Islam (Shari'ah). These acts are prohibited because they are among the causes for fitnah (temptation or trial which implies evil consequences), the arousing of desires, and the committing of indecency and wrongdoing.

Among the many proofs of prohibition of the meeting and mixing of men and women in the Qur’aan and Sunnah are:

Verse No. 53 of Surat al-Ahzab, or the Confederates (Interpretation of the meaning); "...for anything ye want, ask them from before a screen: that makes for greater purity for your hearts and for theirs..."

In explaining this Verse, Ibn Kathir (May Allaah have mercy on him) said: "Meaning, as I forbade you to enter their rooms, I forbid you to look at them at all. If one wants to take something from them, one should do so without looking at them. If one wants to ask a woman for something, the same has to be done from behind a screen."

The Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) enforced separation of men and women even at Allaah’s most revered and preferred place, the mosque. This was accomplished via the separation of the women’s rows from the men’s; men were asked to stay in the mosque after completion of the obligatory prayer so that women will have enough time to leave the mosque; and, a special door was assigned to women. Evidence of the foregoing are:

Umm Salamah (May Allah be pleased with her) said that after Allah’s Messenger (May peace and blessings be upon him) said "as-Salamu ‘Alaykum wa Rahmatullah’ twice announcing the end of prayer, women would stand up and leave. He would stay for a while before leaving. Ibn Shihab said that he thought that the staying of the Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) was in order for the women to be able to leave before the men who wanted to depart." Narrated by al-Bukhari under No. 793.

Abu Dawood under No. 876 narrates the same hadith in Kitab al-Salaat under the title "Insiraaf an-Nisaa’ Qabl al-Rijaal min al-Salaah" (Departure of Women before Men after the Prayer). Ibn ‘Umar said that Allah’s Messenger (May peace and blessings be upon him) said: "We should leave this door (of the mosque) for women." Naafi’ said: "Ibn ‘Umar never again entered through that door until he died." Narrated by Abu Dawood under No. 484 in "Kitab as-Salah" under the Chapter entitled: "at-Tashdid fi Thalik".

Abu Hurayrah said that the Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) said: ""The best of the men’s rows is the first and the worst is the last, and the best of the women’s rows is the last and the worst in the first." Narrated by Muslim under No. 664.

This is the greatest evidence that the Law of Islam (Shari'ah) forbids meeting and mixing of men and women. The farther the men are from the women’s rows, the better, and vice versa.

If these procedures and precautions were prescribed and adhered to in a mosque, which is a pure place of worship where people are as far away as they ever are from the arousal of desire and temptation, then no doubt the same procedures need to be followed even more rigorously at other places.

Abu Usayd al-Ansari narrated that he heard Allah’s Messenger (May peace and blessings be upon him) say to the women on his way out of the mosque when he saw men and women mixing together on their way home:
‘Give way (i.e., walk to the sides) as it is not appropriate for you to walk in the middle the road.’ Thereafter, women would walk so close to the wall that their dresses would get caught on it. Narrated by Abu Dawood in "Kitab al-Adab min Sunanihi, Chapter: Mashyu an-Nisa Ma’ ar-Rijal fi at-Tariq."We know that the intermingling, mixing and crowding together of men and women is part of today’s unavoidable yet regrettable affliction in most places, such as markets, hospitals, colleges, etc., but:

· We will not willfully choose or accept mixing and crowding, particularly in religious classes and council meetings in Islamic Centers.

· We take precautions to avoid meeting and mixing of men and women as much as possible while at the same time achieving desired goals and objectives. This result can be achieved by designating separate places assigned for men and women, using different doors for each, utilizing modern means of communication such as microphones, video recorders etc., and expediting efforts to have enough female teachers to teach women, etc.

· We show fear of Allaah as much as we can by not looking at members of the opposite sex and by applying self-restraint.
There follow some of the results of a study on mixing undertaken by some Muslim social science researchers.

When we put the following question: What is the Islamic ruling on mixing as far as you know? The results were as follows:

76% of respondents said “It is not permitted.”

12% said, “It is permitted” – but moral, religious, etc. restrictions apply…

12% said, “I don’t know.”

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Don't make me laugh, you are incapable of reasonable discourse with any Muslim

Except of course, all the Muslims I have ongoing enjoyable discourse with both in real life and right here on ATS - all of them in fact - except you.

Your presumptuousness about me should embarrass you - you are clearly not familiar with my posting history - especially in regards to Islam and Muslims, that much is obvious.

a logical explanation - I gave it on behalf of Muslims worldwide. get off your own high horse pal - the universal spokesman for Muslims worldwide you certainly are not - chew that slowly, it might be hard to swallow.

I do not need to be familiar with any of your posting history. I cam here, I saw what you wrote and I answered correctly. You have no right to say it is a fail. If you do not agree with it that is fine, but you cannot dictate what Islam teaches, or what Muslims believe.

I have presented the correct Islamic practise, and the reasoning behind it according to scholars, Muslims, and Preachers - In fact it is very easy for your to go youtube and find videos that will back up what I am saying with regards to Islam and segregation.

Doesn't matter if it is a religious dictate or not, the league has teams of boys and girls, that's the way it works in Canada and the US.

If the Islamic school disagrees, take itself out of the league. It is that simple.

And if they can't play because they are that easily distracted, then they shouldn't be playing sports. Just sayin'.

Even if the girls were running around naked, it is the responsibility of the boys to control themselves. Why is that little concept not so easily understood by them?

If a male can't control himself it really doesn't matter what the female is wearing, because they still rape women wearing the full hijabs and burquas.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Don't make me laugh, you are incapable of reasonable discourse with any Muslim

Except of course, all the Muslims I have ongoing enjoyable discourse with both in real life and right here on ATS - all of them in fact - except you.

Your presumptuousness about me should embarrass you - you are clearly not familiar with my posting history - especially in regards to Islam and Muslims, that much is obvious.

a logical explanation - I gave it on behalf of Muslims worldwide. get off your own high horse pal - the universal spokesman for Muslims worldwide you certainly are not - chew that slowly, it might be hard to swallow.

I do not need to be familiar with any of your posting history. I cam here, I saw what you wrote and I answered correctly. You have no right to say it is a fail. If you do not agree with it that is fine, but you cannot dictate what Islam teaches, or what Muslims believe.

I have presented the correct Islamic practise, and the reasoning behind it according to scholars, Muslims, and Preachers - In fact it is very easy for your to go youtube and find videos that will back up what I am saying with regards to Islam and segregation.

Doesn't matter if it is a religious dictate or not, the league has teams of boys and girls, that's the way it works in Canada and the US.

If the Islamic school disagrees, take itself out of the league. It is that simple.

And if they can't play because they are that easily distracted, then they shouldn't be playing sports. Just sayin'.

Even if the girls were running around naked, it is the responsibility of the boys to control themselves. Why is that little concept not so easily understood by them?

If a male can't control himself it really doesn't matter what the female is wearing, because they still rape women wearing the full hijabs and burquas.

That is fine, and I expect they will either remove themselves from future tournaments or find a comprise. Nobody is enforcing Islamic teachings on others here - segregation is a prescribed Islamic practise, a Muslim would seek to avoid it at all costs, where possible.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Even if the girls were running around naked, it is the responsibility of the boys to control themselves. Why is that little concept not so easily understood by them?

You aren't being serious here are you? On what planet is this scenario practical for the majority of boys?

Your expectations are too high.

a reply to: ketsuko

I think the simplest answer is that they need to form their own league and only play in it. Have a no girls rule and they can't play with the big boys(like our girls do).

This is a huge problem when bringing in people from other countries and other religious beliefs,they want to adhere to their beliefs,okay,no problem.The problem starts when they want to do something that the rest of us are doing,but they don't want to do it the WAY we do it.

Women in this country have fought long and hard to be accepted as equals,and we still aren't there.Woman still aren't getting equal pay for doing the same jobs.Parents have to go to court and fight to let their daughters be able to be on a boys sport team. In a perfect world,none of this would even matter,but this world isn't perfect as we know.

Here is what needs to be said to those coming to this country:

Dear Muslims (and anyone else with very different ideas from us)
So you want to come to America? Okay then let me tell you about an old saying."When in Rome,do as the Romans do". If you don't understand or get this message,it is simple. In America,we didn't suddenly spring up as the country you see today. It took years of hardship fought for and paid by the blood of our ancestors to get here. They thought they had a better idea of what a society could and should be. They set the laws so that cruel and unusual punishment was not allowed here.In other words,no chopping off anything folks.

They decided that each person here had their own worth,and that they should be equal.There was no one that was better than another. There should be no religious leader dictating to society what to do and how to act. The reason for this was they had had enough of their leaders telling them how and what to believe. They felt they should have the freedom to believe as they wanted without punishment.

They felt that people should be able to have guns if they wanted them,and use them to hunt to feed their families. They thought and felt a lot of things,and put those things into 2 pieces of paper we hold dear,called the constitution and the Bill of Rights. This is not a perfect country.We know this and accept it. But on those things we think are important,we try to fix it to make it better for us.

Which leads us to immigrants. If I decide to go to another country and live,I am not dumb enough to expect that country to 'change' their ways to accommodate me. Why? That country doesn't owe me that.In fact,that country doesn't owe me a damn thing. It didn't send out a personal invite to me saying they had to have me,I decided to go there.As such I agreed to abide by their laws and culture. Because I WANTED to be there. Thats the thing, they didn't move their country under my bed one night and said SURPRISE! I picked up and moved there of my own doing.

So now we come to an important question that needs to be asked here. If your culture and ways were so great,then why didn't you stay in your own country where they are practiced? Why would you leave and go to another country with totally different ways,and then think you could impose your old countries ways on the new country? We owe you nothing.If you liked those ways so much,then why didn't you stay where you were?

I have a pretty good idea of why. I have read other books on other religions and do know that as in old times,religions always tell people to be dumb and go out and convert the masses. Well these masses don't want your ways and cultures thank you very much.We have developed our own and plan to stay with them.While we welcome people from all over the world ,that is not to change our ways. We do it so that others may experience the freedom we have grown up with. If we allow your ways to take over here,no one gets to experience it anymore.This is why Americans get angry and fed up with those that would come here and try to change the way we do things.If you don't like the way things are done here,DON'T COME. There is no room for you.There is only room for those that would come and assimilate themselves into our society.

American Patriot

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

33:53 is clearly about the Prophet's (pbuh) wives and there is no generalisation about society as a whole within that Ayat.


You sound like a Wahhabi.

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Your expectations are too high.

Are your men so low that they have no control over themselves? They have used this as an excuse to commit crimes against their women since the beginning. Stone the woman to death and the guys walk off laughing. Bet they aren't laughing when they get to heaven.

I would expect an animal to have no control. It just does what it does. But I try to hold humans to a higher standard. I'll make an exception for your men now.

a reply to: Mugly

That part isn't an Islam thing.

Pretty much all boys go through a phase where they don't want to get beat by girls. Don't you remember the "girls have cooties" thing? I do.

a reply to: Dimithae

As far as the competition goes, if there is no detraction from the other team's performance or record for having the Muslim boys refuse to play or forfeit, then let them do that. It's their choice. It would be no more insulting to me than if I was on a team getting absolutely slaughtered and the other coach put in his fourth or fifth string - basically played his very worst players against me. Some people think that's insulting to the team that's getting beat.

The Muslims in this case would be the ones looking stupid, not the team with the girls.

So let them continue to sit there like big babies and lose games.

Only in the case of soccer, the total goals a team scores does matter, so in that case, they are hurting others by refusing to fully participate.

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

Your expectations are too high.

Are your men so low that they have no control over themselves? They have used this as an excuse to commit crimes against their women since the beginning. Stone the woman to death and the guys walk off laughing. Bet they aren't laughing when they get to heaven.

I would expect an animal to have no control. It just does what it does. But I try to hold humans to a higher standard. I'll make an exception for your men now.

Why are you putting it to me as if they are my men? Like I created man?

I am explaining Islamic teachings, then I went on to explain the weakness of man (you know the male human being) and how it can lead to impure actions, hence such a prescribed practise exists. Societies over the past couple of millennia will show you just how men are inflicted and seduced by women, and how they lust over women, and aim to fulfil their desires through illegal means.

You do not want to agree with the Islamic practice that then that is fine. And you do not need to concern yourself with what some supposed Muslims do or do not do, as that involves the human condition. What you should be addressing is the source of Islamic practices: Gender segregation.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

33:53 is clearly about the Prophet's (pbuh) wives and there is no generalisation about society as a whole within that Ayat.


You sound like a Wahhabi.

I got to be a Wahhabi to believe that Islam teaches gender segregation, and the lowering of the gaze to guard the modesty?

You know what else I find amusing about this thread?

The evil, bigoted, hateful Christian conserve-libertarian is about the only person on this thread defending the right of the Muslim boys to ride the bench and look like idiots.

originally posted by: ISeekTruth101

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

33:53 is clearly about the Prophet's (pbuh) wives and there is no generalisation about society as a whole within that Ayat.


You sound like a Wahhabi.

I got to be a Wahhabi to believe that Islam teaches gender segregation, and the lowering of the gaze to guard the modesty?

Trying to interpret a verse that's clearly about how to interact with the Prophet's (pbuh) wives, into how 7 billion people interact is a pretty Wahhabi thing to do.


Also trying to justify those Hadith, like men cannot control themselves, and women just "seduce" men, then "illegal activities" will occur, is not just such a stretch, it is also complete contradiction to the free will we were given by Allah (swt).

a reply to: ISeekTruth101

No, only savages, weak men, and animals have to be perverse and not have self control. Trying to justify this through religion will not get you anywhere.

a reply to: skalla

And I mentioned that soccer is different. I'm coming from the perspective of most sports where you play on simple win/lose because you don't have ties, so the number of points you score isn't a factor.

In that type of setting, the only thing that suffers is sportsmanship, but it isn't anyone's place to police the sportsmanship of players or teams unless they become physically threatening. If a player refuses to play another player, that's not a physical threat; it's simply an object lesson to everyone else. They wouldn't be earning any brownie points or goodwill from other teams. No friendly matches I'm thinking, and I'm sure you know what I mean. There are always those teams no one likes and everyone takes their shots at.

And if you kick them out, they definitely have no chance to learn anything because you reinforce their segregation. In this case, their desire to play and compete might eventually outweigh their other notions. Sports tends to break barriers, but only if you let them.