Call it 'gender fluidity': Schools to teach kids there's no such thing as boys or girls

a reply to: reldra

My point exactly. My wife is bisexual, she is more attracted to women than she is men (physically), but cannot connect to them generally (from a psychological perspective).

Spectrum, spectrum, spectrum.

a reply to: ketsuko

Then they chose to be straight for a time, just like she chose to try out being homosexual. You can apparently still choose to have an orientation.

More likely they tried to be straight for a time and it didn't work out. Experimentation is not orientation. Denial of what one is is not orientation.

Just because they decide to settle out gay doesn't change that.

They don't decide.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth NO, you seem confused.

originally posted by: reldra The only thing the school district is going to do is teach respect and tolerance and that some people may be different than others. There is no lesson plan as of yet. Are you upset that your OP article was improperly sourced? If they do teach that there are degrees of sexuality will you be unhappy with the truth? There is no evidence they will teach this to very young children. Are you just unhappy education may be catching up with the real world? I am impressionable and you have made me confused.

If they were only teaching that, I would not have a problem. Yes, I agree that it should have been properly sourced and I can't tell how he came up with those details. Since you watched the video of the discussion, (assuming that is where he got his ideas) I will have to take your word for what was discussed. I don't agree with teaching young children about what was described in the article. I think it is confusing to developing minds and seems to be pushed by the community being discussed. I realize how you feel and that I am ok with too, but you also have to realize that there are a lot of people that don't feel like you do. When you take peoples children that don't agree with it and start teaching them what was described in the article, it is like taking your children if you had any and teaching the other point of view. I think people that disagree with it being taught to children are all very aware of the other side as it is in our movies, TV shows, social media, in the schools, etc. That is why I said the children are already past the issue of there being people that are different that the standard definition. That is what I mean about it being an agenda being pushed. It is not being pushed by the majority as far as I can tell. I have zero problem teaching anti-hate or anti-discrimination.

I don't think we have a common agreement on how this is thought about and here is why. It comes from faith based morals. Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by God for the very reason of homosexuality. It is spelled out in the Old Testament which is accepted in all the Abrahamic based religions. That makes a large portion of the world population. These people feel it is a sin and is wrong, to the point we see people being executed in some middle-eastern nations. If you believe in the afterlife and have a faith based background then accepting this in your community and life is wrong and threatens your eternal life. That is a powerful problem for the LGBTQ community to overcome, which I don't think will be successful at doing. And when you try and push these ideas on the same peoples children then there is a big problem. You in effect are causing a threat to their eternal life by what is seen as sin. I think that is why the people that are against this feel like they do. I have always said it is hard for people that think one way to understand the thinking behind someone else that thinks in a completely different way. Just think what will happen when the muslim religion is in the majority.

As a person of faith myself, I have the view that you are entitled to your own way. If there is an afterlife, and I have died twice in my life and to me I already know there is, then you will have to deal with that yourself and I will too. I don't try and push my religion on you, but feel that you are trying to push your ideals on me or even my children if I happened to have them in a public school. Pushing those ideas on my children would be to me like going into the public school and pushing my ideals on your children. We would both be upset.

People jump in and say but that is a religion and not the same thing. That is the basis for the moral beliefs we feel and teaching that it is wrong doesn't mean teaching the religion. So, when you say it is right, we have a disagreement. And what is being proposed is that we push these ideas on a captive audience, the children which most people have to send to public schools for financial or location reasons. You are deciding to corrupt my children's morality with the ideas discussed in the article (assuming they come from some correct source). So, it is not a problem you exist and are free to believe whatever you want. I am perfectly fine with that. What I am not fine with is that you want to take my children and put those ideas or beliefs in their head as "normal" or "healthy". I disagree because as a faith based person it is not healthy as you will be punished by the creator. So, it is a belief issue. You don't want me pushing my beliefs and I understand that and am ok with it. All I ask is that you don't push your beliefs on me and mine. If my child decided they were homosexual, then that would be their free choice to do so. But, I want them to do that on their own, not being helped by the school and I feel that is exactly the problem. Kind of like live and let live, do what you want but don't do it to my children while captive in the school system. You realize that programs like this often go places they were never meant to go. Teachers say things like "your parents are wrong and lost in old beliefs that aren't valid any more".

a reply to: spirit_horse

Teachers say things like "your parents are wrong and lost in old beliefs that aren't valid any more".

My Dad was a strong racist (and homophobe). He was wrong and his beliefs in those aspects were never valid. I learned that from a variety of sources.

Doesn't change the fact that I miss him a lot, though.

a reply to: Kali74

Can you imagine telling a 15 year old born with an arm that is not fully formed that they are imagining it, that they actually have two fully formed arms, that they're just attention seeking special snowflakes?

Can you imagine telling your son that the boy at school who exposed his penis to him was experimenting with a sliding scale of male/female hormones and that its ok for the other to indulge his desires as its all part of his gender equivocation. Even after your son expresses his disdain for the assault, you will call him a dinosaur? I'm afraid there is a larger agenda here. I'm not attacking your ideas of tolerance towards others as I agree that is a fine ideal.

What I see happening is that it normalizes and groom the young into not having a voice. The recent entrenched pedophilia exposed in Britain practiced by the governing classes and the lack of will to rectify and bring those animals to justice is telling. In a generation there will be no complaints as any victim will have no voice and it will all be "them (the victim) unsure of their sexuality" anyway. No crime.

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: Ghost147
A girl playing with cars, or a boy playing with dolls does not mean they identify with the other gender. There goes that stereotyping again...

They could actually cause a lot of psychological harm by causing kids to suppress thoughts and behaviors for fear others may question their gender... because those are considered 'male' traits or 'female' traits. Just let them be. Stop with the labels!!!

I don't think that is what ghost147 meant. That was out of context.
Also, my mom tells me my favorite toy when I was 1 and could find out of a pile when asked was GI Joe with the beard. She said I got bored with dolls easily, though I loved to dress the dolls and decorate a dollhouse, I didn't play after I set the thing up with furniture and people, that I was done. I liked to have fancy dolls, but decorating my room, not for a tea party. I liked cars, plastic car track sets. But generally, I wanted to be outside climbing things and flirting with boys, as young as 8 years old and I wanted to play with the toys they had. Even though I was a 'tomboy', she knew she would have difficulty keeping me away from boys lol

My cousin is homosexual. While my other cousins and I were riding motorbikes, camping, etc. he would go around with a towel on his head from doing his hair, wearing high heels, etc. He even played with Barbie dolls when very young. It was obvious to all of us and no surprise he went the way he did. So, your comment is well understood. And I have no issues with it, No one tried to force him to change his feelings or direction in life.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Can you imagine telling your son that the boy at school who exposed his penis to him was experimenting with a sliding scale of male/female hormones and that its ok for the other to indulge his desires as its all part of his gender equivocation.

Is that different from a boy at school exposing his penis to a girl? Both are completely inappropriate behavior. You think that kids learning that sexuality differs means that bad behavior becomes acceptable? There is a difference between behavior and the discussion of gender.

The recent entrenched pedophilia exposed in Britain practiced by the governing classes and the lack of will to rectify and bring those animals to justice is telling.

And, of course, all pedophiles are homosexual and all homosexuals are pedophiles. Your ignorance is telling.

The listed points and "socialist agenda" are obviously created by an opponent to provide reason to oppose socialism. Nobody would explain their movement as promoting "obscenity" and "degeneracy".

Just to clarify, the thread is about ''gender fluidity'', which biologically doesn't exist, rather than ''sexual orientation fluidity'' which is another matter.

I am female (biologically from birth, I have XX chromosomes) and heterosexual, therefore my gender is female and my sexual orientation is heterosexual.

Biological gender is chromosomal. Therefore male /female is a biological fact.

Sexual orientation/ identity isn't, it is a thing of the mind.

a reply to: spirit_horse You are going to have to live with it. If any of this is taught to young children, I assume it will be age-appropriate. I would like to see it focus on say 'johnny in the class has 2 daddies/mommies and that's ok'. Nothing more than that. You are going to have to handle this. For the sake of people's mental well being, you will need to handle this. Even if it is against your faith. If you are a man of faith, talk to your god and ask how you can tolerate and empathize. That is the right path.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Kali74

Can you imagine telling a 15 year old born with an arm that is not fully formed that they are imagining it, that they actually have two fully formed arms, that they're just attention seeking special snowflakes?

Can you imagine telling your son that the boy at school who exposed his penis to him was experimenting with a sliding scale of male/female hormones and that its ok for the other to indulge his desires as its all part of his gender equivocation. Even after your son expresses his disdain for the assault, you will call him a dinosaur? I'm afraid there is a larger agenda here. I'm not attacking your ideas of tolerance towards others as I agree that is a fine ideal.

What I see happening is that it normalizes and groom the young into not having a voice. The recent entrenched pedophilia exposed in Britain practiced by the governing classes and the lack of will to rectify and bring those animals to justice is telling. In a generation there will be no complaints as any victim will have no voice and it will all be "them (the victim) unsure of their sexuality" anyway. No crime.

Are you insane? If that happens and your son says NO, your son is right. It is an assault or a misunderstanding. But your son would be right to complain if offended.

Just to be clear, your cousin packed his high heels on motorcycle trips? a reply to: spirit_horse

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Just to clarify, the thread is about ''gender fluidity'', which biologically doesn't exist, rather than ''sexual orientation fluidity'' which is another matter.

Not really. Not unless you choose a particularly narrow definition

b : the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

www.merriam-webster.com...

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: reldra

My point exactly. My wife is bisexual, she is more attracted to women than she is men (physically), but cannot connect to them generally (from a psychological perspective).

Spectrum, spectrum, spectrum.

Thank the gods, my wife is the same way. I just wish I would have found out sooner in our marriage.

a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

I like how you cleverly group homosexuality and "degeneracy" together in a clever scheme to poison the well.

spirit_horse didn't do this. It was a link to the communist manifesto. A bit of care would have saved you going off into a rant.

a reply to: Phage

I prefer my science from research rather than broad dictionary definitions.

Gender is a chromosomal fact.

Sexual orientation is not gender.

gendercenter.genetics.ucla.edu...

Sex Determination Study
In humans (and in mammals in general), sex is determined when the undifferentiated and bipotential embryonic gonad (the genital ridge), becomes either a testis or an ovary. The molecular mechanisms of human sex determination are poorly understood as known genetic defects have been identified in only a minority of patients with Disorders of Sex Development (DSD). Only a small number of transcription factors and signaling molecules, such as SRY, SOX9, DAX1, WT-1, SF-1 and WNT-4, are known to be involved in human sex determination. The overarching objective of this proposal is to identity and characterize novel sex-determining genes that will improve the diagnosis and management of human DSD patients. Disorders of sexual development encompass a very large spectrum of phenotypes, from minor malformations of the genitalia (hypospadias, cryptorchidism, hypertrophy of the clitoris) to sexual ambiguity. Taken altogether, these anomalies have an estimated frequency of 0.5% to 1%.

Genetics of Sexual Orientation
The study aims to understand why some people are attracted to people of the same sex, while others are attracted to those of the opposite sex. The project studies which genes influence sexual attraction. We are currently collecting families in which there are at least 4 male members who identify as gay. Access to straight members of the same family is also important in order to compare genetic differences between gay and straight individuals within the same family. This project is being run by Drs. Eric Vilain and Tuck Ngun.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

It was a link to the communist manifesto.

You've read it?
For some reason I doubt that. Knock yourself out, it's not that long. Not many big words.
www.marxists.org...

a reply to: Cuervo

That isn't ''gender fluidity'', she is biologically female, you are referring to her sexual orientation, those are not the same thing.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Cuervo

That isn't ''gender fluidity'', she is biologically female, you are referring to her sexual orientation, those are not the same thing.

Both I and the person I was responding to were only talking about sexuality (as in orientation), not gender. Believe me, I don't confuse the two in the slightest.