Call it 'gender fluidity': Schools to teach kids there's no such thing as boys or girls

Interesting thread.

I recall a while back I opined to some religious friends that we may be evolving to some kind of androgynous gender where one day in the future we all may look like Micheal Jackson, Milla Jovovich, or Prince.

I dare say they were horrified


Gender identity seems to have a good degree of socialization within it beyond biology…check out here in Indonesia where they say there’s 5 genders

a reply to: new_here

Trust me, I totally get you. There are not too many bigger tomboys than I am, but I am also completely comfortable with my sexual orientation, too. That was not in doubt.

originally posted by: spirit_horse

originally posted by: ketsuko
Fairfax is also the school district that passed a restroom/lockerroom policy over massive parent objection citing threats of loss of funding from the US Dept. of Ed. if they did not change the policy as their reason for making the change despite parental disapproval.

Are you talking about the no male/female restrooms, but anyone restrooms? That is another idiotic idea that is going to generate its own severe problems.

OHHH come on. School bathrooms mainly have stalls. So, if you are in fear of females being exposed to male genetalia, no need. If you are in fear of males being exposed to female genetalia....why are they looking so close at urinals? If I was that female who felt she was a male, I would use a stall in the male bathroom.

Aren't many bathrooms in Europe neutral gendered? This obsession with which bathroom people use is nuts. It's beyond nuts.

a reply to: reldra

I don't like sharing a bathroom with anyone, male or female, and now you want me to share it with strangers of all genders, not just strangers of my own?

Gross.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147
It is pushing an agenda when you consider that jut about every kid out there goes through a period in their development when they are a bit confused and question what their orientation/identity is. It's normal, but that doesn't mean that we have more than a tiny minority of kids who are legitimately transgender or of a different sexual orientation than hetero.

Considering "Sexuality" is a biological trait, it would make no difference that we bring up topics that involve sexualities. It's not as if teaching about sexualities will change their sexual orientation. I agree, many children are confused when they hit puberty and start to feel romantic/sexual attractions. However, when people are confused, they ask questions. Why not give them information that would answer those questions; especially in the time when they will be most distressed about that topic?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147
But, you start teaching them that they could be differing percentages of male/female with fluid sexual orientations on top of it all ... and you don't see the mess you are setting up?

No. Because sexuality isn't a choice, it's a naturally occurring biological trait. Giving them information about sexualities isn't going to change anything that they already are at the core of their individual biological foundation.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147
"Well, daddy, they made us do this survey today, and I'm NOT your little girl. I'm about 30/70 female normative with bi-sexual tendencies. My homework is to get in touch with my masculine side and write a short journal entry about a time when I was sexually attracted to another girl and how I would handle it."

I don't see them handing out tests about history and a child finding out they had relatives who were Nazi's, then telling the kid to "get in touch with their Nazi side." Your example is ridiculous.

Never the less, in a perfect world "getting in touch with your masculine side" wouldn't be frowned upon simply because you think girls should play with dolls and boys should play with cars.

Which is more distressing? A school teaching about sexualities, or a parent who puts there foot down when they consider their son or daughter to not be abiding by their own personal belief on how specific genders should act?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: reldra

I don't like sharing a bathroom with anyone, male or female, and now you want me to share it with strangers of all genders, not just strangers of my own?

Gross.

I don't like sharing a bathroom either. But when not in my home, I often have to, with strangers. Why does the gender matter? You say gross like you are 5. Eventually you would get used to it. I lived in co-ed dorms in college. If the female bathroom was full..as it often was with a long time to the showers and stalls...I would use the male bathroom. They both had stalls and curtains on the showers. This was considered normal.

originally posted by: Willtell
Interesting thread.

I recall a while back I opined to some religious friends that we may be evolving to some kind of androgynous gender where one day in the future we all may look like Micheal Jackson, Milla Jovovich, or Prince.

I dare say they were horrified

So you're telling me they pictured a world filled with Milla Jovovich clones and they were horrified?

I can't think of very many better scenarios than that.

a reply to: Ghost147

I guess we will just agree to disagree on some of the ideas. I don't think it is correct to teach the children what is described in the article. I happen to think it is an agenda because they are trying to teach impressionable children to think like they think. Confusing children who already have enough problems going on. The children are often already way past the issue as they are also past the race issue if you ask me. Again, the definition of male/female is well understood. I have never heard any biologist or scientist's having confusion about what that means.

So what that the LGBTQ community feels sexuality is 50 shades of gray? The majority of people are just male/female and have no problem with that. It has been this way until this particular point in human history, so ask yourself why that is happening. It is an agenda that is dividing people. I realize that some people think it is normal, but I also realize that most don't. I have to ask why the community or government are pushing this so much. I think they are being used myself to create division and problems that could border on the extreme. It is ideologies that cause war a lot of the time. The US fought wars until recently based on communist/socialism vs capitalism. We see religious based wars today and in the past. That is what makes it dangerous to the LGBTQ community trying to take peoples children and make them accept the idea it is normal. Not because of what I necessarily think, but what other people seem to think. How do you think this will work when Islam is in control of the government? The problem is that the government or community we are discussing think that is ok to push these ideas on people's children in school, and that is going to create division as it is clearly shown in this thread.

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147
It is pushing an agenda when you consider that jut about every kid out there goes through a period in their development when they are a bit confused and question what their orientation/identity is. It's normal, but that doesn't mean that we have more than a tiny minority of kids who are legitimately transgender or of a different sexual orientation than hetero.

Considering "Sexuality" is a biological trait, it would make no difference that we bring up topics that involve sexualities. It's not as if teaching about sexualities will change their sexual orientation. I agree, many children are confused when they hit puberty and start to feel romantic/sexual attractions. However, when people are confused, they ask questions. Why not give them information that would answer those questions; especially in the time when they will be most distressed about that topic?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147
But, you start teaching them that they could be differing percentages of male/female with fluid sexual orientations on top of it all ... and you don't see the mess you are setting up?

No. Because sexuality isn't a choice, it's a naturally occurring biological trait. Giving them information about sexualities isn't going to change anything that they already are at the core of their individual biological foundation.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147
"Well, daddy, they made us do this survey today, and I'm NOT your little girl. I'm about 30/70 female normative with bi-sexual tendencies. My homework is to get in touch with my masculine side and write a short journal entry about a time when I was sexually attracted to another girl and how I would handle it."

I don't see them handing out tests about history and a child finding out they had relatives who were Nazi's, then telling the kid to "get in touch with their Nazi side." Your example is ridiculous.

Never the less, in a perfect world "getting in touch with your masculine side" wouldn't be frowned upon simply because you think girls should play with dolls and boys should play with cars.

Which is more distressing? A school teaching about sexualities, or a parent who puts there foot down when they consider their son or daughter to not be abiding by their own personal belief on how specific genders should act?

You are so right. My daughter, at about 13, professed that she might like girls more. I told her that was ok. I knew it was not right as she was so boy-crazy, but I decided to not make a big deal of it. She continued to pursue boys and is now in a stable relationship with a male. It could have gone either way. My best friend from middle school was the most boy-crazy of a group of 3 of us. More than me and that is saying something. Today, she lives with her partner of 10 years, a female and they have 2 beautiful twin girls. I would never have guessed. But I am so happy for her

originally posted by: Ameilia
a reply to: spirit_horse

I guess the vagina I was born with means nothing?

I wouldn't say it means nothing. I think the majority of guys would feel this way...

originally posted by: spirit_horse
a reply to: Ghost147

I guess we will just agree to disagree on some of the ideas. I don't think it is correct to teach the children what is described in the article. I happen to think it is an agenda because they are trying to teach impressionable children to think like they think. Confusing children who already have enough problems going on. The children are often already way past the issue as they are also past the race issue if you ask me. Again, the definition of male/female is well understood. I have never heard any biologist or scientist's having confusion about what that means.

So what that the LGBTQ community feels sexuality is 50 shades of gray? The majority of people are just male/female and have no problem with that. It has been this way until this particular point in human history, so ask yourself why that is happening. It is an agenda that is dividing people. I realize that some people think it is normal, but I also realize that most don't. I have to ask why the community or government are pushing this so much. I think they are being used myself to create division and problems that could border on the extreme. It is ideologies that cause war a lot of the time. The US fought wars until recently based on communist/socialism vs capitalism. We see religious based wars today and in the past. That is what makes it dangerous to the LGBTQ community trying to take peoples children and make them accept the idea it is normal. Not because of what I necessarily think, but what other people seem to think. How do you think this will work when Islam is in control of the government? The problem is that the government or community we are discussing think that is ok to push these ideas on people's children in school, and that is going to create division as it is clearly shown in this thread.

The only thing the school district is going to do is teach respect and tolerance and that some people may be different than others. There is no lesson plan as of yet. Are you upset that your OP article was improperly sourced? If they do teach that there are degrees of sexuality will you be unhappy with the truth? There is no evidence they will teach this to very young children. Are you just unhappy education may be catching up with the real world? I am impressionable and you have made me confused.

a reply to: Ghost147

I have yet to see it proven that sexual orientation is a biological trait.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147

I have yet to see it proven that sexual orientation is a biological trait.

You don't get out much, do you?

a reply to: Ghost147

Never the less, in a perfect world "getting in touch with your masculine side" wouldn't be frowned upon simply because you think girls should play with dolls and boys should play with cars.

A girl playing with cars, or a boy playing with dolls does not mean they identify with the other gender. There goes that stereotyping again...

They could actually cause a lot of psychological harm by causing kids to suppress thoughts and behaviors for fear others may question their gender... because those are considered 'male' traits or 'female' traits. Just let them be. Stop with the labels!!!

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: reldra

I don't like sharing a bathroom with anyone, male or female, and now you want me to share it with strangers of all genders, not just strangers of my own?

Gross.

I don't like sharing a bathroom either. But when not in my home, I often have to, with strangers. Why does the gender matter? You say gross like you are 5. Eventually you would get used to it. I lived in co-ed dorms in college. If the female bathroom was full..as it often was with a long time to the showers and stalls...I would use the male bathroom. They both had stalls and curtains on the showers. This was considered normal.

And if people don't want to get used to it? Clearly most people do not.

What business is it of the government to step in a say, "We know better than you. You will just have to use the bathroom with anyone else who happens to be there?"

And if people who feel that they should be able to use the bathroom that identifies with their "head gender" because they feel uncomfortable using a bathroom with people who have their physical gender ... why do we accommodate them by telling everyone else to suck it up?

There are less people who have a "head gender" that doesn't match their physical gender. If I am being told to "get used to it" why can't they continue to "get used to it" like they always have? Why must the majority of the world suddenly be told that our gender preferences no longer matter and that gender of any type no longer matters?

But at the same time, we are making this move to accommodate the gender preferences of a tiny minority.

Either gender no longer matters for everyone in which case, we shouldn't be doing this to accommodate ANYONE'S gender hurt -OR- this is really just an excuse to further destroy society by trying to abolish everyone's gender identity.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Ghost147

I have yet to see it proven that sexual orientation is a biological trait.

I'm not too sure I could give you research evidence you would accept but... have you ever wondered why there are so many gay animals in countless species if there were no biological cause behind it?

We're aren't just talking about aggressive males raping other males; we're talking nesting habits and even "lesbian" animals.

I don't think it matters if sexuality is chosen or not but, when I entertain the idea that it may be a "choice", I get stumped when I think of gay animals.

a reply to: ketsuko

Did you choose to be straight?

a reply to: new_here

A girl playing with cars, or a boy playing with dolls does not mean they identify with the other gender. There goes that stereotyping again...

Use of the phrase "identify with the other gender" would indicate a level of stereotyping in itself. Both with the implication that homosexuals "identify" with the opposite sex and with the notion that there is a single "other" gender.

a reply to: spirit_horse

Again, these aren't Ideologies. We have physical proof that the neurological makeup of people whose sexuality is outside of Heterosexuality is vastly different than that of people who are Heterosexual. There isn't any ideology behind it. Basing what a gender should or shouldn't be in the sense that male or females are supposed to act a certain way is in fact an ideology.

The notion that we shouldn't teach tolerance is beyond my understanding.

Nature vs Nurture my friends.