Woman who failed physical exam to become firefighter

FDNY really should update their website....

Probationary Firefighters School (PFS)

Running, calisthenics and other fire related skills, including Functional Skills Training (FST), occur daily during Fire Academy training. Functional Skills Training (FST) involves performing a series of fire related tasks in full firefighter gear. FST will measure a recruit's ability to safely and effectively perform the duties of a firefighter while wearing full personal protective equipment including a self-contained breathing apparatus. FST includes, but is not limited to, skills such as climbing stairs with tools and equipment weighing in excess of 100 lbs, advancing hose lines, forcible entry, victim rescue, and raising ladders. FST requires an extremely high level of physical conditioning, well beyond what is necessary to pass CPAT. Recruits will be evaluated in FST and must pass FST, in order to graduate. In addition to physical training and FST, recruits are also required to perform such skills as climbing an aerial ladder with tools and equipment, bring a victim down an aerial ladder, perform confined space search, operate and advance a charged hose line etc.

FDNY Physical Demands and Fitness Standards

Just thought I'd post some comments from firefighters about the CPAT Testing...

www.firerescue1.com...

I am with the commenter who says "However brawn over intelligence. I don't think so."

a reply to: InTheLight

Comments from people on a firefighters forum doesn't amount to much.

And brains has yet been able to pick a person up.

I am sure that you and a handful of others are all tingly about comments and good feels, but it still doesn't remove the simple fact. She didn't pass the standards. She was pushed through solely because of what is between her legs.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Comments from people on a firefighters forum doesn't amount to much.

And brains has yet been able to pick a person up.

I am sure that you and a handful of others are all tingly about comments and good feels, but it still doesn't remove the simple fact. She didn't pass the standards. She was pushed through solely because of what is between her legs.

She did complete and was passed by those who know what the job entails, unlike yourself.

Discrimination at the NYFD.

www.justice.gov...

a reply to: InTheLight

I do know what the job entails.

And no, she did not pass the requirements. She was gifted a "pass" to push an agenda.

Very very simple...did she meet the time requirements, yes or no.
Here, let me answer this for you....NO she did not.

Are there standards to be meet regarding these requirements??

Yes.


And to provide a discrimination case brought forth regarding WRITTEN testing of people for promotion has nothing to do with basic physical qualification standards set forth to secure the position for the boot.


Honestly. Instead of thinking with your vag, why not use your brain.

She did not pass the qualifications. Her pass was a pencil whip action.

a reply to: macman

I believe what the test officials are saying...she did complete and pass the test, as well as being 'kickass' and they will welcome her with open arms. The officials are saying that and we know none of them have a vag, now do they?

The point of the court case, is just to show the discriminatory testing practices and why they must be changed. Now you be nice, and start thinking with your brain.

a reply to: InTheLight

Did she, or did she not pass the physical requirements without the asterisk?

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Did she, or did she not pass the physical requirements without the asterisk?

The officials say she did complete the testing, and that they deemed it appropriate to pass her. How they formulate who passes and who does not, timing notwithstanding, is something that is up to *their expertise.

a reply to: InTheLight

So, you refuse to answer the question.

Here, let me help.

No, she did not meet the time requirements.

She did not pass.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: macman

I believe what the test officials are saying...she did complete and pass the test

That's not what they are saying. They are saying she failed, but they decided she could graduate anyways. It's like your Doctor or Lawyer failing their licensing test, but being allowed to practice anyways because they are a minority.

Who do you want operating on you, the surgeon who passed because they met the job requirements, or the one who was pushed forward even though they failed to meet diversity requirements?

She failed. Why should the job do to her when there are other candidates who can do the physical and score well on the intelligence portion? People like you is what is wrong with America. Standards are lowered for the feel good crowd, that's why Americans can't compete anymore in many fields.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

So, you refuse to answer the question.

Here, let me help.

No, she did not meet the time requirements.

She did not pass.

She completed the physical portion of the test, yes, however, not within their discriminatory time requirements, but what you all fail to grasp, is that the CPAT physical test is only a portion of what is required for making the grade...so, taking into account her other test grades (exemplary), she more than made the grade and therefore they (the people that know what is required for this job) passed her as qualified. Just keep in mind, fire fighting tactics and technology is ever-evolving, so the people who hired her deemed her an asset in whatever area or areas they may have existing deficiencies, which would normally exist if they just hired brawn without too much brains.

a reply to: InTheLight
Every source, I have seen, states that she failed the FST.
2nd.

a reply to: InTheLight

Yes....much discrimination...very not fair.

Honestly, you really are grasping at this point.

She failed a part of the OVERALL requirements, which are ALL required (that is why they are called requirements) to pass.

Soooooooooo.....she failed and was pushed though.


And here is something else. What about everyone else that passed all the requirements, except the time portion. hmmm?

What about that black guy that didn't make it, due to the same circumstances. Guess that is just racist...as this clearly is sexist and discrimination.

I mean, we can't have a single test created to be applied to ALL applicants now can we. We should adjust the test so that ALL can have a chance to pass it.

I listen and believe what the officials are saying - watch the video at the link. If some of you have a problem with that, well, then you have a problem, not I.

Nigro shot down a published report that claimed Wax failed to meet a benchmark on a fitness test required for graduation.

www.nydailynews.com...

It appears the bar was kept moving to exclude women from firefighting roles (by adding time limits), so now those discriminatory practices are being acknowledged.

Something of a breakthrough occurred in 1999 with the development of the Candidate Physical Ability Test, or CPAT. The CPAT is a standardized test of firefighting ability developed by experts and intended to correspond to specific firefighting tasks. When women candidates receive proper pre-test training and mentorship, most can pass the CPAT and go on to be successful firefighters.

New York City adopted the CPAT as its fire academy entrance exam in 2006, but then something strange happened: The city began requiring academy cadets to pass an additional timed obstacle course as a requirement for graduation. In addition, cadets are required to run 1.5 miles in twelve minutes, a requirement appearing nowhere in the CPAT. Neither of these requirements reflects the essential tasks of a New York City firefighter – as the law requires – and both are blocking women from joining the fire department. With these add-on requirements, the city is attempting an end run around the CPAT's fairer standards and the demands of antidiscrimination law.

www.aclu.org...

Shame on you!

a reply to: InTheLight

Yeah, don't buy it.
Nigro refused to comment with the original article hit, only to now state it is false. Bull$h*t. If it were false, he would have stated so from the start.


Since you believe this, I bet that email from the Nigerian Prince that has a million dollars for you should be acted upon.
Guess some people will believe anything if it matches their agenda.

a reply to: InTheLight

Sooooo, woman can't pass said tests????


NOW who is the sexist discriminator.

I mean...here I thought you were for equal rights.

I forgot...it is always different for the Progressives.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: InTheLight

Sooooo, woman can't pass said tests????


NOW who is the sexist discriminator.

I mean...here I thought you were for equal rights.

I forgot...it is always different for the Progressives.

I am all for moving the bar back where it was many years ago, where most women could pass and that is exactly why the officials are graduating women, because the timing factor (strangely added in 2006 for what reason I wonder?) is unfair.

a reply to: InTheLight
Again, the physical test in question is the FST, not the CPAT.
2nd.

originally posted by: peck420
a reply to: InTheLight
Again, the physical test in question is the FST, not the CPAT.
2nd.

Again, the point is that the bar was moved/changed in a discriminatory manner in 2006 to keep women out and all that is happening here now, is a correction to fairness.

a reply to: InTheLight
Yawn.

Your love of straws tells me that you should be a farmer.