Freddie Gray sustained head injury that matches bolt in back of police van - Law enforcement states

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

apparently the back of these paddy wagons are quite dangerous ....perhaps there needs to be warning signs so that less people are injured during transportation...

Or people should not try to injure themselves on purpose.

Do you think that Gray would be able to injure himself with his legs shackled behind him?

Why wouldn't he? That still allows for a large range of motion that can cause self injury.

I also don't recall a story that says the were shackled behind him....just shackled. That they were shackled, after having to stop to do so, is evidence that he was thrashing about in the back.

When you are raising a ruckus in a paddy wagon(as in kicking), where do the police shackle your feet?
They shackle your feet together and connect them to you hands which are cuffed behind your back. It is basically being hogtied.... it keeps you from kicking.

I am not sure how being hog-tied gives a person a wide range of motion.

In the end, you are saying that Gray hurt himself. If he did hurt himself, don't you think it is much more likely that he did it before his legs were shackled?

I listened to ABC News this morning on the radio and the 'Prisoner' that was said to have told someone that Gray was trying to hurt himself during the ride..... Well he is out of jail now and DENIES that he said anything of the sort.
Huff post

originally posted by: butcherguy
I listened to ABC News this morning on the radio and the 'Prisoner' that was said to have told someone that Gray was trying to hurt himself during the ride..... Well he is out of jail now and DENIES that he said anything of the sort.

Huff post

Yep, there are a couple of articles posted about this already (on the previous page)

I'd like to see what Police Commissioner Batts has to say about this.

originally posted by: butcherguy
I listened to ABC News this morning on the radio and the 'Prisoner' that was said to have told someone that Gray was trying to hurt himself during the ride..... Well he is out of jail now and DENIES that he said anything of the sort.
Huff post

Well...that is odd considering just yesterday, when he was released, he was saying that Gray was having seizures to another reporter. He also said, in the video of the linked HuffPo article, that he told homicide that he was banging his head. He also stated at one point that he heard nothing at all, in the same interview. Then he says he overheard the police saying they "gave him a run for his money". This guy is a walking contradiction in front of media it appears.

My guess would be that he told homicide one thing and is saying another on the street to save face. He does not want to look like a "snitch" and very adamantly states numerous times in the interview that he didn't tell the police anything, he said to homicide that Freddie was "banging" but he doesn't talk to the police and isn't a snitch.

Highly doubt we will ever get the true story from him in the media....or at least one that can be fully believed.....

originally posted by: butcherguy
I listened to ABC News this morning on the radio and the 'Prisoner' that was said to have told someone that Gray was trying to hurt himself during the ride..... Well he is out of jail now and DENIES that he said anything of the sort.
Huff post

Which is problematic. Was he telling the truth then or is he telling the truth now? Did the police intimidate him into telling a lie then or are people outside intimidating him to lie now--"snitches get stitches?"

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: butcherguy
I listened to ABC News this morning on the radio and the 'Prisoner' that was said to have told someone that Gray was trying to hurt himself during the ride..... Well he is out of jail now and DENIES that he said anything of the sort.
Huff post

Which is problematic. Was he telling the truth then or is he telling the truth now? Did the police intimidate him into telling a lie then or are people outside intimidating him to lie now--"snitches get stitches?"

Either way.... His story is not to be trusted.... either version, meaning POLICE version or his version. And all along with this story, people have been saying that he didn't have to SEE anything, what he heard was PROOF.

Guess what?
The cops already lied.

The whole we stopped the van once... well we actually stopped twice..... Oh, you mean like where we stopped the van? We did that three times. THEN, once the store owner says there was another stop, and they copied his security video that confirms it..... Well, yeah, we stopped there too.

a reply to: texasgirl
Yes, thanks. I looked at them on the previous page now.

Personally, I think if any one of these people that claim Gray crushed three vertabrae in his own neck were to have their son go into a paddy wagon with an intact spine and come out with three crushed vertabrae, they would be suing the crap out of the police department and the city.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: texasgirl
Yes, thanks. I looked at them on the previous page now.

Personally, I think if any one of these people that claim Gray crushed three vertabrae in his own neck were to have their son go into a paddy wagon with an intact spine and come out with three crushed vertabrae, they would be suing the crap out of the police department and the city.

I've seen that you have posted a few times about him having "three crushed vertebrae" in his neck. Can you point me to the source for that?

As I stated in another thread:

Could it be possible he had a seizure in the van that was unrelated to his arrest? In other words, could he have had an uncontrollable fit and that's how he injured his head on the bolt in the van and that's when the witness heard thrashing around? I wonder if he had a history of seizures, brought about his documented exposure to lead?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: butcherguy

I listened to ABC News this morning on the radio and the 'Prisoner' that was said to have told someone that Gray was trying to hurt himself during the ride..... Well he is out of jail now and DENIES that he said anything of the sort.

Huff post

Which is problematic. Was he telling the truth then or is he telling the truth now? Did the police intimidate him into telling a lie then or are people outside intimidating him to lie now--"snitches get stitches?"

This recent claim does match up with the earliest reports that Freddie was unresponsive by the time they picked up this prisoner.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

apparently the back of these paddy wagons are quite dangerous ....perhaps there needs to be warning signs so that less people are injured during transportation...

I think Freddy was dieting..

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: texasgirl
Yes, thanks. I looked at them on the previous page now.

Personally, I think if any one of these people that claim Gray crushed three vertabrae in his own neck were to have their son go into a paddy wagon with an intact spine and come out with three crushed vertabrae, they would be suing the crap out of the police department and the city.

I've seen that you have posted a few times about him having "three crushed vertebrae" in his neck. Can you point me to the source for that?

That is what his family claims to have been told at the hospital.
The cops have been shown omitting details and lying and you will believe them.
What reason would the Gray family have to lie about his injuries?
Everyone says that they are lying when they said he had a crushed larynx too.

Beyond damage to his spinal cord, Gray had a crushed voice box.

SOURCE: The Baltimore Sun

So, they say he was stood up and the van stopped and he fell..sounds reasonable.

a reply to: andy1972
Did this occur before or after he was shackled?

He would have difficulty standing if he was shackled in a fashion that prevented him from kicking (the Cops whole reason for shackling him).
If it happened before he was shackled, that means that the cops shackled a man that had a broken neck.

Either way, the cops put a restrained man in the back of a van and did not secure him in place according to department policy.... putting the man at risk for bodily harm.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: texasgirl
Yes, thanks. I looked at them on the previous page now.

Personally, I think if any one of these people that claim Gray crushed three vertabrae in his own neck were to have their son go into a paddy wagon with an intact spine and come out with three crushed vertabrae, they would be suing the crap out of the police department and the city.

I've seen that you have posted a few times about him having "three crushed vertebrae" in his neck. Can you point me to the source for that?

That is what his family claims to have been told at the hospital.
The cops have been shown omitting details and lying and you will believe them.
What reason would the Gray family have to lie about his injuries?
Everyone says that they are lying when they said he had a crushed larynx too.

Beyond damage to his spinal cord, Gray had a crushed voice box.

SOURCE: The Baltimore Sun

I can't find where his family claims that in the linked story. I have read about them saying he had an injury to his larynx, but nothing about it being crushed, nor 3 vertebrae being crushed.

I am not believing the cops either....I am going by all of the reports at this point. People are saying Gray was limp or dead in the van already, well if that is the case then how DID he get the injury to his head that matched a bolt in the van and how DID the other passenger hear him banging? If his spine was severed 80% he would not be able to move at all.

I am not saying anyone is right on either side. Truth is, until a coroner's report comes out showing all injuries, nobody will ever know. They should be able to match up the injuries on the body with a story, whether that be that he was beaten with an object and had numerous contusions or that he somehow did do this to himself. The coroner's report should clear all of that up pretty easily.

I'm calling BS on all this 3 crushed vertabre and windpipe crap. It's all hype to rattle the cages of the brothers.

Whats happened is he fell, he was stood up, cuffed, and couldn't stop himself from falling and the blow was at the base of the skull.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: andy1972
Did this occur before or after he was shackled?

He would have difficulty standing if he was shackled in a fashion that prevented him from kicking (the Cops whole reason for shackling him).

Even with your legs cuffed together you can stand up, not run, not kick, but stand up yes.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

So far, they are refusing to release the full autopsy, and the police in Baltimore instead, are telling us what the autopsy says.(in their favor of course) Hell I had someone try and tell me in another thread the autopsy (which is not public) proves there was no one even in the van when Freddie received his injuries.. (as if an autopsy can actually prove who was in attendance at the time... lol)

the propaganda level on this is completely ramped up through the roof! Its getting ridiculous and I daresay we may never hear the facts of this case..

To me, history shows a lot.. Baltimore PD has been sued multiple times over this exact thing in the past, it seems Baltimore has a history of people getting into the back of the transport van and never being able to walk again!

To me, history shows a lot - as this doesn't happen in other cities.

originally posted by: andy1972

So, they say he was stood up and the van stopped and he fell..sounds reasonable.

Here is the link to your article....they have pics of a similar van in it as well.

Source

I find it odd that the driver still has not given any statement according to that article.

It implies that he was not beaten, but because he was not seatbelted he fell and hit his head against the back door causing the fatal injury.

An investigation has concluded Freddie Gray broke his neck after falling head-first into the back of the police van as it was moving, it was reported today.
Medical and law enforcement sources briefed on the police investigation told ABC News Gray's 'catastrophic' head injuries were consistent with hitting a bolt 'in the back door of the van'.
They claimed there was 'no evidence' Gray sustained a fatal spine injury during his arrest, which was caught on camera on a street side on April 12.
According to ABC's sources, Gray was standing in the van, bent over with his hand cuffed behind his back and his head pointing towards the back door.
It is believed he fell into the door, breaking his neck.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Here you go:
The Atlantic

Instead, it was a grave injury to his spinal cord. Gray's family said he was treated for three fractured vertebrae and a crushed voice box, the sorts of injuries that doctors say are usually caused by serious car accidents. The van made at least two stops before reaching the police station, but there's no footage to say what happened during the journey or at those stops.