A Challenge to FreeMason

Originally posted by magestica
I'm not being paranoid, just speaking my mind(oh wait) my mind 'IS' paranoid, so then guess I was being paranoid..

No, really I'm not all about what AV is saying, just think it's really errr errr Immature...kind of feeling like I'm back in grade school with this one...

What was that William posted a few weeks ago about 'ignoring'...I think it's harder to ignore someone who is smart then it is the opposite so...

Magestica

Please, I really want to know.

Enlighten me.


Abe

Originally posted by Abraham Virtue
This is what some would call a "Clash of Interests".

AV...

I must ask you something.

This is important, because I've been meaning to ask this for some time.

If you're offended by this question, please understand it is with the best intentions, and no malice is in mind.

For I fear there is a so-called "deep end" of which you find yourself tettering dangerously close, wondering what's down there.


Are you aware of the concept of fun?


Not everything in life is worth constant serious contemplation, as a matter of fact, in reality few things are. Your reactions and response on ATS often remind me of a famous quote from Henry Ward Beecher, "A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs -- jolted by every pebble in the road."

Dude... lighten up... the point of this is simple... let's enjoy the possibilities. No malice is intended. I've often said anyone previously banned has an opportunity to return if they return a civilized person. A few of our current members fit this profile, yet you probably don't know it because they've discovered how to fit in.

There are no mysteries working here in ATS. Only invented ones.

I just don't feel completely the same as you..I'm simply saying that it IS a DUMB idea. Couldn't them two just lash it out somehwere in IM or something? I mean really..these two are adults not 10 year olds claiming to be smarter then the other blah blah blah!

Hey I have an idea, if it's all about proving who is smarter, couldn't someone just give them a test(like an SAT, I mean ATS test or something?) We've all seen FM debate and how he goes about it and "Advisor" pffft..I wouldn't trust this one..I mean really. And that's the whole point of it. Who here, in reality would NOT vote for DR?
Mags

It just seems like to me that this site has been blackmailed by a certain you know who.

That is all.

I just wish that we ATS'ers were not caught in the crossfire.

Then again it seems as if I am one of the only ones who can see and hear the gun shots.

If you can honestly say that Freemason is welcome then why not just accept him for who he is right now????

Forget about the debate, with the terms and conditions.

Forget about the appologies.

Freemason should hanlde it just as everyone else has, there should be no special awards for him. Besides, the acceptance of his return is based on a win or lose situation. Isn't that an immediate loss for the integrity of good reason???

For no acceptable appology can be forced like that. It will never be accepted. Am I right, or am I wrong???

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

No it isn't all about who is smarter......


But about who is right.


Like I said before, Freemason will always be right so as long as he thinks so, as will any other.

Right and wrong is not a conception, but a perception.


You See???

So is that fair? What if you lose DR? Are you going to leave? Stakes should be the same no matter 'WHO' is debating.. Posted by Magestica

I actually offered this as a looser must leave ATS permanently, but William nixed it. Since he is allowing it, and he is setting the debate thread up, Im not going to argue with his counter proposal.

I would point out that FM has the reputation that he does for a reason.

Like I said before, Freemason will always be right so as long as he thinks so, as will any other. Posted by AV

FM is correct in his own mind at all times. However, this time, whether he is correct or not will be decided by ATS members.

Originally posted by dragonrider
FM is correct in his own mind at all times. However, this time, whether he is correct or not will be decided by ATS members.

Don't mistake winning a debate for being correct.

In the long history of organized debate, it is the skill of those making their case that is important. If one argues the sky is yellow, and that we've mistaken it's color for blue, far better than his opponent, he wins... regardless of the absurdity of the point. Debates are not about who is correct, but who is skilled in making their point.

I hope you understood this before making your request!

Originally posted by dragonrider
Like I said before, Freemason will always be right so as long as he thinks so, as will any other. Posted by AV

FM is correct in his own mind at all times. However, this time, whether he is correct or not will be decided by ATS members.

Will he go away????

NO!!!!

So what is the point???

Just accept him so he can't get the satisfaction he so badly wants. If we just say, "Okay, here you are Freemason, and here are all of your old posts" then we can tell him to get over the fact that we respect him or not. If he wants respect he needs to get it just like everyone else had to. We can't expect a debate to do this can we????


Abe

I hope you understood this before making your request! Posted by William

I am prepared.

The debate is about opinions driven by facts.

The art of debate is to form your opinion into fact that the opinions of others can rightly accept as fact.

Hehehe, this is why I love ATS, where else would you find such a great group of minds debating about a debate... There are many fine points being argued here, I am going to have trouble voting on a winner...
OOPS, the debate hasn't started yet, lol...sure seems like a debate though.

As a member who read for quite a while before deciding to join, I remember a lot of what freemason has written, and I have read a lot of what dragonrider has written. Both are very intelligent people and both have a strong drive behind their beliefs, I think this has the potential to be a great debate.

So lets put indifferences behind and have a good debate. Best of luck to both of you.

P.S. this is better than politics... I have an idea for the last debate between the two of them...

Free speech and the internet, can you say anything you want or should there be ethics invovled!!

_____________________________________________
Be Cool
K_OS

[Edited on 5-6-2003 by K_OS]

That is what is great about ATS and the freedom that it serves isn't it. Debating about debate. Man we are nerds. I always loved nerds. They are the ones with real lifes. They are real. I like that.

So is this debate. It is as real as it gets. It is real because of the fact that the opinions fly in fast and they fall hard. It is real because those that fall get back up and fly again. For that is the nature of realism. You fall, you get back up, or else you die.


Abe

Do we have an unconditional acceptance of challenge yet?

I don't like FreeMason
I'm cool with Dragonrider.

No disrespect, but Freemason will probably win.

(Well even though K-Os seems to have got there first, if there was a comedy forum on here this belongs in it.)

Please excuse me I did n`t really wanna comment on a thread that has nothing to do with me but since you`ve all done sucha damn fine job....look at this thread, its a challenge from Dr to FM but what happens? You all end up debating the debate to be honest I`m ROLFMAO at this. DR says fancy a debate to FM, everyone debates it, apologies to all concerned but LMAO.

(you can condemn me for this but you should see yourselves. I doubt the UN is this much fun, then I see K_os has commented on it already *makes changes to post*

I just want this to hurry up and happen because I am sure I will learn alot during the whole debate, and I am sure it will be very interesting.

After having read through this thread, or this debate over a debate LOL (GOOD ONE ehhh, don't remember who, but great!), I feel I have to fill in a couple of things.

It seems the vagabond believes he is set up here, that what he is used to in the lodge somehow is the rule here too; that we conspire to drown people we don't like in the mud with disgrace. Well there are a couple of things here like banning, labeling, warnings, sh!t-filter etc., but it's all for a reason, and is probably one of the reasons ATS is the great forum it is (the tone and environment here is great!).

Well, back to my point: I didn't know the Wanderer, FreeMason or whatever his name is, I had never heared of him, until I jumped in on the thread called something like "Do you know any masons etc...." a couple of days ago to respond to DR's concern about possible racism within the lodge, but when suddenly this guy you all seem to know well walked in, I immediately found him rude and arrogant.

In direct response to you, Mason, how can you expect to get appologies for rudeness and arrogancy? These are not virtues, and shall never be accepted no matter who drives by it. Understanding perhaps, but appologies? Get real. Unlike in the lodge, respect can not be bought here, you'll have to earn it. By your ways, personality, tact, knowledge, tone, tollerance, whatever, you know the rest of these virtues.

I've messed up many times, and been wrongly accused, hazzled with, rediculed, you name it, but I have never demanded any appology for anything. To me that would be pathetic. I've rather tried to get on with my life. If they don't like me there and there, I simply leave and search for a place more suitable for me. I don't start whining. I explain myself, display my points, and harvest whatever I can of support and critics, and try to learn something.

So please, for your own sake and name, stop being such a paranoid crybaby who bites and sifts when he doesn't get what he wants. Grow up, earn your respect, don't demand it. End of transmission.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

I think that it is going to only lead to more games.

Games played by childish people.

Sorry, I am not a child anymore.

Sometimes I wish I was, but lately in a world so torn, I have no time for childish games.

What I think needs to happen is for some people to wake up and get over it. This has gone too far, and needs to be driven no further. It is suprising to me that this is even an issue right now. Who would give it the time???

Well someone obviously. How about this:

You too go on a blind date and see where you go from there. Because no public declaration of anyone's greatness will be proclaimed on my person due to the results of some corrupt debate that I have opposed from the very get go. Some people here are dreaming.


THEY NEED TO WAKE UP.

AND GROW UP TOO.


Anyway that is just one man's opinion, nothing to take seriously.


Abe

I'm loving that signature Mikro.