The Young Ladies of 2015 not the 1950's

It's my 72year old mother who see it this way....I just want to confirm that I am on the right path of raising Strong, loud, females that can stand on their own... to: IAmPhoeniX07

originally posted by: zbeliever
It's my 72year old mother who see it this way....I just want to confirm that I am on the right path of raising Strong, loud, females that can stand on their own... to: IAmPhoeniX07

I'm more convinced everyday we are who we are born. Raise them from the "inside out" - - in other words let them be who they are, because the only person they ever have to really live with is themselves.

Why do we always need to "find ourselves" when we get older? Why didn't we "find ourselves" all through life? Is it because we were expected to fit into a certain role?

The one thing I do stress is: "It's not your friend who invites you back, it's their parents". Knowing manners and when to use them.

Yes our town its main economical resource is tourism. Most women here work in that field or work in the medical field. I am a RN and the majority of nurses make more money then their husbands. It is fine if you both work for the greater good of the family. a reply to: Bluesma

originally posted by: KnightLight

Strong Women find Strong men.. It's less to worry about.
And then Strong Woman Plus Strong Man = Strong Future Babies.

This is society evolving.

YES! YES! YES!

I get so tired of those claiming strong women like weak men they can bully.

How boring that would be!

originally posted by: Bluesma


I didn't think I was raised with sexist notions (my mother was a feminist)

Sometimes I know people do not know what words mean.. And especially feminists.. don't know what words mean apparently.. But in any case Feminists, are sexist.. There is no way around that... LOL just read the words.. Humanists... OK.. That's not sexist.. hahaha.. People..

"I grew up Blackist, so that makes me not racist.." hahahahahaha....

I found later on that I had some ways of thought that were old fashioned sexism- like I remember having made some comments about something like long hair, or curves, and saying off hand, "Men like that" (as if that is a good reason to do it). The french women around me all fell silent and stared at me like I was insane. Or they felt sorry for me. That any woman would make choices for herself based on what men liked was beyond their imagination.

I LOVE long hair on a woman. That's just what I like. I think people are going over board PC.. Women are hot to men because they are DIFFERENT. I don't get attracted to dudes.. Things that involve the mind and personality I like guys and girls for the same reasons.. But looks wise.. I like girls with curves and long hair.. And they better not look like a dude..

Sex IS sexist.. Dun dun dun what a surprise.. I have sexist views about sex..

The idea that men should accept a woman for how she is, if one goes that way, should also be balanced with the idea that women should accept men for how they are, I'd think. I keep seeing things on american shows and movies that sort of make fun of men- portraying them as stupid or incapable, or prone to violent reactions to problems (which is bad), and their wife telling them to change, to be different, to do this or that.
I am somewhat shocked by the way Hollywood portrays the typical american family, and hope it is not the current common pattern.

It's not the current pattern as far as I have noticed.. But women do seem to be accepting more and more slubby guys..

My husband wouldn't tell me what to do, and I wouldn't tell him what to do. I have never given him a "honey do" list, and when counseling our children, we each give our differing advice and let the child do what they will (I say, "Search for a verbal resolution and comprehension" he says, "next time, you head butt him and knock his ass on the ground.")

This world needs both types of energies, feminine and masculine!

Exactly.
The honey do list made me LOL.. My Exes Sister and her husband do that stuff.. They are both so GAY.. Can I say that.? Word Police.. Word police..

And then the last part about different approaches to things.. I am a guy and I can save a group of people from physical danger. I can go ROUGH. But I cannot explain the finer points of communication, and coming to common ground. I can hold my ground, but maybe I hold too tough?

I think it's pretty cool that we are different in some ways. But even cooler.. We are almost exactly the same.

If society breaks down I don't know too many girls who could make a spear with their hands and then stab a guy in the throat with it watching his bright red blood spurt out as he panics for life. I know I could do that.. haha.. And If I was protecting children I would even relish in it.

I can't imagine one girl I have dated do that. But I can imagine other things.. Things guys wouldnt think of, like plans.. Guys would be like ok we are safe, and then a girl would be like uh no we are not safe.. Wheres the water? What are we going to eat 3 days from now, cause we have 2 days of food.. And get that blodd off you he may have been infected.

Dang shes right..

Guys and girls together.. We can do anything.

Your a wise 70 yr old a reply to: Annee

a reply to: KnightLight Thank-you I read and I appreciate everyone's opinion. but I fall short on the big responses. Anyways, you make a good point we need both the right and left brain thinkers to get by in our society.

a reply to: zbeliever

I believe you give your children the basics in life. How to be a good person with quality values and strong sense of self-worth. To know that the world is "their" oyster and that there is no pressure to be anything but themselves.

You do not have to be loud to be a strong character. You do not have to "de-feminize" (I think I made that word up) to be successful in life.

originally posted by: sueloujo
a reply to: zbeliever

I believe you give your children the basics in life. How to be a good person with quality values and strong sense of self-worth. To know that the world is "their" oyster and that there is no pressure to be anything but themselves.

You do not have to be loud to be a strong character. You do not have to "de-feminize" (I think I made that word up) to be successful in life.

mmmm...

Self Worth. Self Determination.

That is a very good point..

If/When I have kids.. I will do my best to not shove myself over top of their budding selves.. The coming world will be their world and I would want them to make it, not me. I would only protect them, to the point they are free to think. And then I would guide them, by asking them questions. And letting them ask me questions..

And whoever they are.. That's who they are..
And have confidence in that. And that is your strength.

Whatever you have confidence in about yourself that will make you strong.. Strong like a woman or strong like a man. Strong like an Artist. Or Strong like a Mom. Strong like an Architect of your own reality. And whether you want your reality to be frilly or Rough. You will be happy knowing that you are you, and you are Strong.

a reply to: sueloujo Defeminize, I understand that. I feel the females of my daughters generation are doing that naturally. We are having a slumber party right now and there are 3 friends spending the night. Earlier tonight the girls were wrestling like boys....This is what started my mothers disapproval, but she has mentioned this topic before.

a reply to: zbeliever

S&F to ya.

Would like to take your thread back to just after the war when women were treated atrociously and turned back into breeders by deliberate government policy. its the time of the 'mother's little helper pills' cos she had to be robbed of any independent streak and made dependant and told she was inferior to men even though she had been doing men's work in the factories and elsewhere - paid less of course - but that's another topic.

Its not a position I would want again for my 'girls' ever and I am grateful for women gaining their independence if they choose it. Look at all the unhappily married ones just to see how the respectability of marriage is simply a shroud for many men and women but the world, especially the religious and financial ones demand that institution, especially for women ha ha!

I know its a shock for your mother, but women have been getting drunk, shouting the odds etc etc polite people then simply looked away and shame was heaped etc. If women are to compete and use their excellent brains and enjoy their professions if they choose, then they need to be able to feel comfortable in their work places and hold their own in order to gain respect and especially confidence.

There are house fathers these days and whose to say those relationships loose any of the love in their homes. Surely we should rejoice in a more equal society and be glad our girls are holding their own. I dare say if the need exerts itself, your girls will glide down the street in their stiletto heels if they want to.

originally posted by: zbeliever
a reply to: sueloujo Defeminize, I understand that. I feel the females of my daughters generation are doing that naturally. We are having a slumber party right now and there are 3 friends spending the night. Earlier tonight the girls were wrestling like boys....This is what started my mothers disapproval, but she has mentioned this topic before.

Interesting.

Why would it be bad for girls to know how to move their weight around, and protect their physical space?

I don't think Lion girls and Lion guys argue about who get's to have claws and kill things.

Play fighting is very enriching for feeling your body and building confidence. It's how we learn.

And then.. Later on when some guy is being a shmuck... She already fighting girls with lower centers of gravity.. She will throw his ass on the ground. BAM.

Actually if Lion King was right the Lioness does the hunting a reply to: KnightLight

a reply to: Shiloh7 You make a good point We should rejoice that we have come this far....and a little off topic but I think we may have a female President soon.

This is the year 2015. We have progressed and are better as people. Gender? It's no longer about being a woman in need of rights or being liberated from the chains of suffrage. In our household, we teach our children that they can be whatever they want as long as they are happy. That includes being a girl that is a boy; boy that is a girl; gay; lesbian; bisexual; straight; asexual. Unlike other same sex married couples with children, we are of the philosophy that having a sexual orientation Can be a choice. My spouse and I were "born this way", but, we feel in our hearts that it is great for children to Know that They have the freedom to experiment and choose to be gay or transgender or straight etc. Life is unstoppable, ever changing, evolving, progressing and most of all fun. If people from the year 2015 lived in the year 1950, they'd be terrified. We are more than simply "boys and girls". In the year 2015, we have arrived as a complex society of advanced living beings and traditional concepts of gender / gender roles no longer apply. Peace be with all, A

a reply to: zbeliever

originally posted by: zbeliever
Actually if Lion King was right the Lioness does the hunting a reply to: KnightLight

Yes of course... I didn't want to say that as a guy..

haha.

But I see you got my secret point.. Sometimes the girls are the true physical strength even. IT just all depends, but the main point is that people should be people. and anything getting in the way of people being people, it probably bad news.

My sister used to try to fight with us.. She was pretty Tom Boy.. But she was also insanely girly.. People are multi faceted awesome pieces of the universe.. And they should not be controlled or limited except to the point they are controlling and limiting other people.



This whole conversation... I need a strong woman.. Haha.. I know, A woman who can beat me one on one in basketball. That would be extra awesome.

I appreciate your post, understanding that your family is passed the issue of roles. I am sure and hopeful in the future we will all be pass the gender indifference. a reply to: Argosnaut

a reply to: zbeliever

I do have to say one thing about gender roles though..
I get to open the door for you..
Not the car door that would be silly.

But I get to use some Knight like powers.
That restaurant door.. That's mine.. And I get to pretend it's Super Heavy..

haha. But no I'm serious.

AND I get to kill scary bugs.. AND I get to pretend to fix things before I make YOU call the plumber.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: zbeliever

I think its perfectly fine. I think feminism is a cult that steals womens individuality. That said, a woman can be strong and assertive and still not have to label herself a "feminist". Changing values are what makes the world go around. The American Ethos for example isnt set in stone, certain principals are. Those principals are not centered on race, religion or sex. They are universal.

The "greatest" generation tried to make things simpler by making a womans role the BS fixer. She fixed all BS, took it, made it her own and let everyone else live a carefree life. Well not carefree but BS-less where possible.

That was nice and all, but was unfair to women. Hell, the early 1900s had women assert themselves then WW1 happened and the needs outweighed the rest. Like WW2, women just did what was necessary. They dealt with the BS after the war, because well, the men were pretty messed up behind those smiles.

Now? There is no reason to think that a woman has a role that is set in stone. If a massive and terrible war broke out they may need to just do like every other generation did, though I like to think that we will not be idiots by losing half our fighting population. IMO, we were fools to not train female soldiers, until lately.

Besides outstanding needs like those that shaped the "greatest" generation and the women of that generation, there is nothing wrong with being able to do all things.

I hate when women compete with men or when men compete with women.

We should just pick up the slack and carry that weight. If a woman in a family is better at making money, then damn it, MAKE THAT MONEY. If the man is, then damn it RAISE THOSE KIDS.

If you are both good at both, THEN SHARE THE WORK LOAD.

Its pretty simple to me. My wife takes care of the kids just because she is better at it than I am and I am better at making money. When I am home I dont shy from playing doll house, doing nails, cooking or cleaning. My wife makes a buck where she can. We would switch, double up, what ever. Getting the job done really doesnt depend on who has boobs or who has a penis.

We dont have gender roles. We have a mission. Raise these kids, get some money saved before we are too old to work, and find some peace. How ever the hell we can do that is fair game.

Oh, mate, it is unfortunate that I must be the one to say this, but it must be said regardless. I will try to be as straightforward as possible, at peril of sounding rather blunt and coarse.

What you've written sounds as though it came from the mind of a caricature of "modernity". Whether you know it or not, this is the mindset of a "C-word". You know of what I speak, this C-word, and I needn't say more.

Now mate, I am going to redpill you, and redpill you hard. As much as it pleases the ego and salves one's sense of self-importance, the truth of things can't remain stifled forever. A woman cannot fight her nature, no matter how much her mindset and attitude has changed with the times, there are certain biological realities that can't be ignored.

Now, what do you think excites a woman more, piques her interest, "gets her juices flowing", so to speak? A man on the verge of impotence, effete and smug in his self-righteous portrayal of a caring, fairly-minded champion of "free thought and open mindedness", rather skinny, out of shape, and pale from a life of service sector employment..... Or a lantern jawed, tattooed, chiseled jock, who exudes a starkly alluring aura of testosterone and low-inhibition. Not quite at a level of brutish aggression, but a man who unmistakably occupies the primordial, timeless, thoroughly masculine position of a SLAYER. The kind of man who, in the past, had children by a multitude of women, due to his status as a pack leader. One who asserts himself shamelessly- brash, imposing, and dominant. Which do you think women would find themselves unwittingly drawn to, like iron to a magnet?

What would compel a woman more deeply, primally? A chattering man, talkative and opinionated, and yet presenting a somehow meek and timid presence..... or an imposing, assertive jock with a taciturn but powerful demeanor, and when he speaks, everyone listens? How about a man with timorous, uncertain, feminine vocalization, who can barely project his voice across a large room, but is glad to chatter and gossip like an old fishwife...... Or a booming-voiced slayer who speaks in an irresistibly powerful and abrupt manner?

How about this: does a woman stand in awe more from a man who spouts off tired platitudes about gender-nonconformity..... Or an assertive proponent of traditional values, one who is not afraid to say that he despises modern moral relativity and feel-good decadent altruism?

I hope you've caught my meaning mate. A man should always know what women truly, biologically desire, lest the women in his life begin to wander (through no fault of their own).

Now, I'm only trying to help you guys swallow the redpill, don't hate the messanger because he may hold views contrary to your own. But rather, you should carefully heed the message, or risk blindly ignoring certain simple truths for the sake of modern social-political ideology.

originally posted by: Connell


A woman cannot fight her nature, no matter how much her mindset and attitude has changed with the times, there are certain biological realities that can't be ignored.

Now, what do you think excites a woman more, piques her interest, "gets her juices flowing", so to speak? A man on the verge of impotence, effete and smug in his self-righteous portrayal of a caring, fairly-minded champion of "free thought and open mindedness", rather skinny, out of shape, and pale from a life of service sector employment..... Or a lantern jawed, tattooed, chiseled jock, who exudes a starkly alluring aura of testosterone and low-inhibition. Not quite at a level of brutish aggression, but a man who unmistakably occupies the primordial, timeless, thoroughly masculine position of a SLAYER. The kind of man who, in the past, had children by a multitude of women, due to his status as a pack leader. One who asserts himself shamelessly- brash, imposing, and dominant. Which do you think women would find themselves unwittingly drawn to, like iron to a magnet?

What would compel a woman more deeply, primally? A chattering man, talkative and opinionated, and yet presenting a somehow meek and timid presence..... or an imposing, assertive jock with a taciturn but powerful demeanor, and when he speaks, everyone listens? How about a man with timorous, uncertain, feminine vocalization, who can barely project his voice across a large room, but is glad to chatter and gossip like an old fishwife...... Or a booming-voiced slayer who speaks in an irresistibly powerful and abrupt manner?

That is about the same as saying, men can't help but prefer a big breasted blond who speaks softly and acts fragile.
I think there may be some truth to the most primal physical drives, as far as "getting juices flowing" and sex. But when it comes to choosing a life partner, with whom we want to raise a family, that is where the brain and the individual personality chooses. The fragile vulnerable curvy blond who is submissive and dependent might pique ones interest at first glance, but do most men want that kind of wife?

A lot of men don't. They prefer a woman who can take care of herself , that can be strong and authorative (so he doesn't have to carry all the responsibilities himself, or worry about her and her ability to protect and direct the kids when he is not there), and that doesn't give off "available" vibes to all other men in the vicinity.

The kind of man you describe might be fun to look at, or to whistle at on a stage, but would be an absolute bore if he can't carry an intelligent articulate discussion and explain to me what he feels and thinks. -Or if he spent his time at the gym, and looking at himself in the mirror, flexing and trying to prove he is tough. Nothing is more of a turn off than that, I think.

There is more to picking a mate than just physical attraction, and you seem to be mixing up the physical appearences with the mental attributes!

Not that the physical isn't important to many of us- my own man has a naturally athletic structure, with big shoulders and muscles, and a cro-magnon type of facial structure, and it does turn me on.... but he also has a well developed intellectual capability and tenderness towards others (especially children and animals) that turns on my mind too. He has a lot of concern for ethics and social conscience. I see him like Ferdinand the Bull.

It is not because a man is in touch with his feminine side that he has a feminine type of body, nor is it because a woman is in touch with her masculine side that she will have a masculine body either....