The Young Ladies of 2015 not the 1950's

I am a Mother of two young ladies a 13yr and a 6yr, We are the home that the sleep overs take place.( this fact makes me happy due to not being that home as I was growing up.) Due to health issues my mother 72yrs old lives with us. Mother feels my girls are to loud to ruff and have the grace of a ox. As I point out to her the girls that are their friends are the same. I am not saying they are not girlie girls; they love to play princess, make-up and clothes are very important to them; but they are not the demure children of the 1950's. In my mothers time the girls were taught to be seen and not heard; to be raised to be good wives....These are not the values I want to give my girls. Times have changed, they need to be strong, their voices need to be heard, if they chose to have a partner they better find one that will except them for who they are. With the divorce rate that it is, they need to take care of them selves. In our town many women are the bread winners of the family. This economical change is due to the factories closing down. Many women I know either make more money or are the only one working in the relationship. Which is fine if the partner will help out with the children and domestic issues. Anyways to wrap this up, I feel there is a big shift in how we raise our females. Maybe we could even say they need to act more male.

Any thoughts? or you feel I'm right or do you think my mother time was a better way of up bringing?

a reply to: zbeliever

Gender doesn't particularly need to be a factor. Ever since the internet started flowing like water old school parenting was dead.

Wish I had more to say, but I just think we would have to change the question entirely. Generally I believe there is a push to have everyone have more similar responsibilities etc ...

a reply to: zbeliever

You think your little girls are required to look for a partner?
is that a requirement in life esp for girls?
I dont think so.

originally posted by: IAmPhoeniX07
a reply to: zbeliever

You think your little girls are required to look for a partner?
is that a requirement in life esp for girls?
I dont think so.

She clearly said "if they choose to find a partner."

The whole post is regarding how in 2015, women (her girls) should be raised to have a voice, to be strong, and to be independent. And I agree.

I don't want a divorce and neither does my husband but if we divorced, I could support myself just fine. I'd be miserable, but not destitute.

a reply to: zbeliever

I think its perfectly fine. I think feminism is a cult that steals womens individuality. That said, a woman can be strong and assertive and still not have to label herself a "feminist". Changing values are what makes the world go around. The American Ethos for example isnt set in stone, certain principals are. Those principals are not centered on race, religion or sex. They are universal.

The "greatest" generation tried to make things simpler by making a womans role the BS fixer. She fixed all BS, took it, made it her own and let everyone else live a carefree life. Well not carefree but BS-less where possible.

That was nice and all, but was unfair to women. Hell, the early 1900s had women assert themselves then WW1 happened and the needs outweighed the rest. Like WW2, women just did what was necessary. They dealt with the BS after the war, because well, the men were pretty messed up behind those smiles.

Now? There is no reason to think that a woman has a role that is set in stone. If a massive and terrible war broke out they may need to just do like every other generation did, though I like to think that we will not be idiots by losing half our fighting population. IMO, we were fools to not train female soldiers, until lately.

Besides outstanding needs like those that shaped the "greatest" generation and the women of that generation, there is nothing wrong with being able to do all things.

I hate when women compete with men or when men compete with women.

We should just pick up the slack and carry that weight. If a woman in a family is better at making money, then damn it, MAKE THAT MONEY. If the man is, then damn it RAISE THOSE KIDS.

If you are both good at both, THEN SHARE THE WORK LOAD.

Its pretty simple to me. My wife takes care of the kids just because she is better at it than I am and I am better at making money. When I am home I dont shy from playing doll house, doing nails, cooking or cleaning. My wife makes a buck where she can. We would switch, double up, what ever. Getting the job done really doesnt depend on who has boobs or who has a penis.

We dont have gender roles. We have a mission. Raise these kids, get some money saved before we are too old to work, and find some peace. How ever the hell we can do that is fair game.

a reply to: IAmPhoeniX07
I did say IF they choose....I want them to know who they are and NOT conform....In my mothers time that was why they were taught to be sweet home makers.....

originally posted by: zbeliever
a reply to: IAmPhoeniX07
I did say IF they chose....I want them to know who they are and NOT conform....In my mothers time that was why they were taught to be sweet home makers.....

I told my daughters, and now my granddaughter age 15 - - you have to be ONE before you can be TWO.

I'm a very modern 70 year old.

Go After Life!

a reply to: zbeliever

Oh no, I think you are right, the girls need to have a voice, and be strong and learn to be independent, but also learn how to socialize, of course! Then maybe they can find a strong suitor, too! I think you are doing them a service letting them sleep over at your place.

These days, things are different. I'm a man and I'm single. Therefore, I have to do laundry, cook, clean, mop, grocery shop, take care of the cat, do the dishes and all of those things! I even garden!

It is time for both men and women to learn how to do both sets of tasks. If I get married, I hardly expect my wife to do ALL the housework. That would be silly. More than likely, we will both be working and both be doing housework.

a reply to: tadaman
Not having gender roles is progressive. but if the role was reversed and your wife was able to make more money would it bother you to do the domestic role full time?

You sound like a good catch....a reply to: darkbake

a reply to: zbeliever

Everyone in my family is weird so I didn't ever think about other people's grandma's like that.. Where I am from it's not even a question.. We never grew up with many rules. We had sleepovers that lasted all night.. I'ma guy.. But my sister did too.. I had hippy parents and my grandparents.. They would never say anything to my mom in my mom's house.. Not to mention.. they were pretty wild in their day too..

Oh and Meager girls... There is no place in society for that kind of bull any more.

I'm not really sure exactly why but old people who said things like girls should be hostesses, and weird guy girl rules... My mom and dad never told us anything about this.. They never MADE us be hippy.. But it just seemed normal.. everybody is a person. Be nice.. and work together..

values like teamwork are much more important than how loud someone is.

And meager girls.. Weakness.. What is the point?

I've never liked a person, male or female, who I could tell they were not showing themselves to me. And if they were afraid to challenge what I say as a strong male scorpio... then eww how do I know when I am wrong?

We need more strong women. Not women who cry about not being GIVEN the chance to be strong.. Uhh that's not how that works even for guys.. IT's all on you.. So freedom to explore and grow, and become strong.. That sounds Really Really good to me.

Strong Women find Strong men.. It's less to worry about.
And then Strong Woman Plus Strong Man = Strong Future Babies.

This is society evolving.

a reply to: Ameilia

Why is gender an issue?
Patrilineal or matrilineal kind eitherway depends on the process of how you parents the mother or the father, balance your approach to each of your children's personality and attitude not a general approach to both of them so as not to create competition amongst your children but rather harmony and trust within your family. From there, if theyre already adults it is up to them to choose which direction they but u as parents would know that no matter which path they choose either to live as single or get married or take vows in whatever blah blah religion spiritual or political, it will not worry you. Because you know they have a reason enough string why they chose such path to life. Hence, you respect individuality of your child and you get the respect from them. Freedom with a touch of senseful strictness.

As once my father said, had i killed u in your mother's womb, you wont have that life you have now. But I did not do that because irregardless disrespect, lies and whatever "typical mistake a child can do" everyone deserves to live, taught how to live by sharing to them approaches in life at its best, and to let go in times they have to go, because in letting go you know they have found appreciation to life and now willing to share the teachings i have taught them and that will make me a proud parent. (Parent-children relationship)

Simple but speaks of the whole basic process in the most basic approach of life.

The same applies to liitle boys, they are not the well mannered prodigies of the 1950's either.

Our PC education system has no power over children anymore, and the kids make the rules, we go along with it.

It will be interesting to see how much that position moves again in the next 60 years.

Peace

a reply to: zbeliever

Hell yeah I would be the domestic parent. I wouldnt mind at all. If she could make more money and as a result we could live better? You bet.

I dont see it as progressive. Its just common sense without preconceptions. Ancient man that was the most adept at survival mostly held matriarchal societies.

Like I said, we dont have gender roles. We have a mission: Raise kids, save money, find peace. There is nothing, NOTHING we wont do to that end. She would work construction if she had to and I would be a full fledged mom. Hell, we would both be prostitutes or contract killers if we had to. Whats some cooking and cleaning compared to that?

We just do whatever we are best at. With us, Its about efficiency of function. Not about purpose of design.

Thats not progressive. Progressive culture doesnt get to claim that. It was around before it, and will be after it is long gone.
Its basic human nature without the trappings of our backward ass world.

Your issue here is not parental-children approach relationship. Your issue is gender-equality?
Does it matter in these days? Thats is so ancient issue.
Why are you still making a big deal to that? Gender is physical, whats within us is male and female. You can choose which you want to be dominant your female or male. When you die anyway you physical gender dies as well. Lol. So why make it an issue to "your little girls".

Your doing the right thing .. let them have fun as all too soon they will have to deal with the idiocy of the world .. let them be themselves and happy with who they are rather than turn them into an outdated model that never existed outside of hollywood to begin with .. encourage them to learn.. grow and achieve anything they want to in life .. they will turn out just fine as they are keep up the good job and always be there for them when they need you ..

a reply to: Watchfull
The friends from school and I were speak about the boys receiving cracks and my 13 year old could not get over a teacher could hit you....But we did show the teachers respect. I would not like to go back to them being able to crack students again thou.

a reply to: zbeliever

In today's world the children set the rules and boundaries. Progressive ideals are the root cause of the breakdown of the moral fiber of this country.


Many parents are seeing this hard truth as young adults never leave the home.....You reap what you sow. Back in the day kids could be kids. Go outside and play and come home when the street lights come on. If you let your children run wild and set boundaries your household will fail......Your children will never grow into adults or be able to be independent. They will be lazy self absorbed and apathetic.

originally posted by: zbeliever
In our town many women are the bread winners of the family. This economical change is due to the factories closing down. Many women I know either make more money or are the only one working in the relationship. Which is fine if the partner will help out with the children and domestic issues.

This caught my eye because that is how it is where I am too. Almost all the couples we know, the wife makes more money than the husband, sometimes the husband doesn't work outside the home.

Yet, I keep running into people on the web here who go on and on about women who are using men for their money, which made me wonder if this is uncommon.

I didn't think I was raised with sexist notions (my mother was a feminist) I found later on that I had some ways of thought that were old fashioned sexism- like I remember having made some comments about something like long hair, or curves, and saying off hand, "Men like that" (as if that is a good reason to do it). The french women around me all fell silent and stared at me like I was insane. Or they felt sorry for me. That any woman would make choices for herself based on what men liked was beyond their imagination.

That was a long time ago, and it made me careful not to transmit to my daughter any notion of that sort.

The idea that men should accept a woman for how she is, if one goes that way, should also be balanced with the idea that women should accept men for how they are, I'd think. I keep seeing things on american shows and movies that sort of make fun of men- portraying them as stupid or incapable, or prone to violent reactions to problems (which is bad), and their wife telling them to change, to be different, to do this or that.
I am somewhat shocked by the way Hollywood portrays the typical american family, and hope it is not the current common pattern.
My husband wouldn't tell me what to do, and I wouldn't tell him what to do. I have never given him a "honey do" list, and when counseling our children, we each give our differing advice and let the child do what they will (I say, "Search for a verbal resolution and comprehension" he says, "next time, you head butt him and knock his ass on the ground.")

This world needs both types of energies, feminine and masculine!

Im outta here.