Jesus is a man

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: bb23108
Both parts. You did not find "disciples ascending" in the New Testament.

In John 3:3 when Jesus is instructing Nicodemus:

'Jesus replied to him, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."''

Matthew 6:22
"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light."

Both these statements by Jesus support the mystical process of ascent that is well documented in other traditions where the spiritual master initiates disciples into the Spiritual Light of Unity above the gross physical world.

Such ascent requires real devotional surrender of the body, mind, heart, and very being, to the Divine (as Jesus' two great commandments also require) - and of course the Spirit Blessing of the master.

What do those passages mean to you?

a reply to: DISRAELI

There is information in the new testament that you will not understand until you know by experience what the term really means.

Luke 24:32

They said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?"

Only a soul that have experienced the heart burning within really can understand the phrase. Many will read but never understand what is behind the words.

And this is not just in Christian faith. It is the spiritual knowledge hidden in all human religions that you can choose to seek out.

originally posted by: bb23108
In John 3:3 when Jesus is instructing Nicodemus:

'Jesus replied to him, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."''

"Born from above" has nothing to do with "ascending".
The image is the exact opposite- "from above" is about something coming down. The clue is in the word "from", which indicates a place of origin (of the Holy Spirit, in this case), not a destination.

I will be doing a thread on that passage in about three weeks time.
Here, we must not get too far away from the topic of this thread, which is the full humanity of Jesus.

a reply to: DISRAELI
Jesus was a man who realized that nothing is separate from God. The human believes it is separate from God, separate from life - that it is possible to die. Life is what there is and you are that - but there is a belief in concepts like 'death'.
What you are is the aware space in which all appearances appear and disappear.
You may see a human being born (appear) and you may see a human die (disappear) but what you are has never been born and will never die.
There is just presence - in which the appearance is constantly changing.

Stories about other than what actually is appear in the space of awareness - the stories speak about other times and places but when and where do the thoughts speak and when and where are they heard - always presently.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Jesus was a man who realized that nothing is separate from God.

You have no evidence for that statement. He is not recorded as saying so.
Everything you are telling us is an idea that you have made up because it makes you feel more comfortable.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
"Born from above" has nothing to do with "ascending".
The image is the exact opposite- "from above" is about something coming down. The clue is in the word "from", which indicates a place of origin (of the Holy Spirit, in this case), not a destination.

I will be doing a thread on that passage in about three weeks time.
Here, we must not get too far away from the topic of this thread, which is the full humanity of Jesus.

If one is born from above, it implies you were there being born, right?

If you were born from your mother's womb, you were there, right?

Also, I think this discussion of Jesus' ascended Spirit Body is completely relevant to your thread. I am surprised you don't think so. His Spirit Body contacted his disciples after his death, right?

a reply to: DISRAELI
Oh did he not say that he and the father are one?

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
Jesus was a man who realized that nothing is separate from God.

You have no evidence for that statement. He is not recorded as saying so.
Everything you are telling us is an idea that you have made up because it makes you feel more comfortable.

Everything that is written or spoken is made up - but what is it made up of? What is the substance of all things?
Where do ideas arise?
Have you ever known any other time but the present?

Speaking speaks about other than what is and that is where all confusion comes from. The thoughts, the words tell stories always presently so the present is totally overlooked. No words can speak about the present so there is no conflict here and now - it is the resting place that is sought for in time.

a reply to: Itisnowagain
Yes, but he did not say that EVERYBODY and the Father are one.
The whole point of such remarks is that he is identifying himself as a unique authority.

originally posted by: bb23108
Also, I think this discussion of Jesus' ascended Spirit Body is completely relevant to your thread. I am surprised you don't think so. His Spirit Body was something the disciples contacted after his death, right?

Yes, but you wandered away from the subject of the ascended Jesus.
You started talking about alleged mystical experiences of the disciples, which you chose to call "ascent"; THAT was what I described as "not found in the New Testament" and "not relevant to Christian theology".
Do try and keep track of what you are saying in this conversation.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Itisnowagain
Yes, but he did not say that EVERYBODY and the Father are one.
The whole point of such remarks is that he is identifying himsefl as a unique authority.

What is the one thing that you cannot deny? Are you or are you not? If you answer honestly you will say 'I am'.
Jesus was speaking to the 'I am' that he is also.

You can fight over what may or may not have happened and not know what is true - but are you or are you not?
Jesus is saying that the 'I am sense' is where reality lies.

But individuals are divided by concepts - concepts like time and other than what is here always.

The aware presence is always present - it is seeing and knowing all that is arising - it is prior to any thought about other.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Itisnowagain
Yes, but he did not say that EVERYBODY and the Father are one.
The whole point of such remarks is that he is identifying himsefl as a unique authority.

Jesus said 'I am the way, the truth and the life'.
'I am'.

If you have believed in the concept of Jesus then you will be attached to it and you will fight and defend that belief.
But Jesus was pointing to the 'I am sense' prior to any concept.
Only through the 'I am sense' can the father be found.

God is not in the past or in the future - God is that which is witnessing all that arises - can anything appear outside the present?

Thoughts appear presently and are known and then the thoughts change but does the witness ever change?

Biggest mistake on humanities part is making people into gods…

originally posted by: intrptr
Biggest mistake on humanities part is making people into gods…

There is just what is happening. The realization that all is just simply happening removes individual free will - there is nothing individual - all is arising in God as God.

But the illusory individual will not like to think that it is powerless.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Yes, but you wandered away from the subject of the ascended Jesus.

Jesus found that there was nothing separate from presence - when this happened Jesus as an individual was lifted away.
'Individual' is a concept.

Have you ever seen or heard anything outside of presence?
Unless you are present can anything be known?
The present is aware of what it presents as existence.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Moon pie, the history of the world has men making others including themselves into Gods and using that superiority to manipulate peoples to conquest for material gain.

a reply to: intrptr
Moon pie??

a reply to: DISRAELI

The whole point of such remarks is that he is identifying himself as a unique authority.

God is the ultimate authority. God is doing and knowing all that is.
So what are you?