Jesus is a man

a reply to: WarminIndy

You must not have read most of my prior posts on this thread, otherwise you would see something very similar to what you just wrote about Jesus' use of parables, depending on one's level of recognition of him as Divine, their intelligence, etc. The parables are brilliant multi-layered examples of a true master at work, as are his two great commandments.

Relative to esoteric truth, one recognizes the truth of what Jesus is saying through various means. One is that it is corroborated in other spiritual traditions. Another, more importantly, is the self-evident truth of being pervaded by the Divine.

For some of Jesus' followers, they obviously recognized something about him as Divinity, and followed him. Why else would the disciples just leave their homes? They were simply attracted to him and could not help themselves. The same with some women - they adored and served him.

You do agree that Jesus was the disciples' Master, right? What do you think that means? They were initiated spiritually by him. How did they know if this was the truth? It was self-evident to their hearts - they were willing to stay with him regardless of the difficulties they encountered. Again, they couldn't help themselves.

How do you personally know the truth of the Holy Spirit? That is certainly esoteric - so why do a lot of people discount all esotericism in the Bible? What else could being Blessed by the Holy Spirit be, other than spiritual/exoteric?

In John 14:
25 I have told you this while I’m still with you. 26 However, the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything. He will remind you of everything that I have ever told you.

If this isn't esoteric, I do not know what is! The Holy Spirit will forever infill the disciples with Blessings and they will be re-awakened to their heart recognition of their beloved Jesus.

Also, I provided you with various scriptural passages relative to the argument that Jesus did not condone blood sacrifice as a form of worship, but you did not respond at all to that.

It is a key example of how the official Church deviated from Jesus' teaching by mythologizing Jesus' blood sacrifice as everyone's redemption, requiring only faith/belief, not real responsibility for his requirements each day. Most people obviously would favor the belief in him equals Salvation-when-you-die approach.

a reply to: bb23108

Then you don't know my religious persuasion. I am a Pentecostal/Quaker. I know about the mystical and esoteric, but in saying it is all esoteric, you miss out on the daily relationship with the very much alive Jesus Christ.

Tell me what I don't know about the Holy Ghost. We can spend many post comments on the very subject, but that would be derailing the thread. So let's stick with the thread topic.

Esoteric is nothing, because anything can be interpreted as special meaning. Are you one of those waiting for the rabbis to say the secret name of God so they can raise the Golem?

That was what kabbalha was all about. But hey, those esoteric rabbis used secret knowledge and secret language to ascribe traditions, that's why you have the Sephiroth. Wait, the Golem is being raised. Is that what I hear from all of this esoteric stuff?

Jesus is real, alive, right now. And it isn't a secret.

a reply to: WarminIndy
Where do you think I said it is all esoteric? You really should read the thread before making sweeping statements like this. Plus I never have said anything about your assumptions about esotericism - e.g., numerology, looking for meaning in songs, etc. You really should go back and read my other posts if we expect to have an intelligible conversation about this matter.

When I speak of esoteric matters, I am speaking of the Divine spirit, the transformative work of God in the whole body-mind and one's life altogether - not some parlor trick, or woo-hoo moment, or some way of advocating becoming dis-embodied.

Of course Jesus instructed in both exoteric and esoteric matters. He was looking to transform his disciples in body, mind, heart and soul - this is obvious from his two great commandments.

Good to hear you personally know about the Holy Spirit - do you think Jesus taught the disciples anything esoteric/mystical/spiritual while he lived? Disraeli said he did not - that mysticism was a different religion from Christianity.

I agree we should not derail the thread with discussions of the Holy Spirit.

I also agree with you that one should have a daily relationship with the Divine regardless of what their experience is. The Divine is beyond all experiences anyway, so there is no better time than now to be in communion with Him.

Now this consideration about Jesus as a blood sacrifice is on topic - so am I going to hear what you think of those passages, etc., I posted earlier?