New Concept... ATS Clans

Thomas has a clan? I didnt even see him reply to this thread. To me, that says it all. But I've been wrong before...
For some reason I see TC being his own clan.

I might have gone along with the idea of such restructuring if you, william, were honest about the reason for its introduction. I know you asked me for my silence on the matter but i now sense that was just another attempt at censorship. As concern is growing(no longer just mine) over the reasons for all the changes here i think it's only right, if you have any respect for your fellow posters, that you reveal the reason. I understand if you have to ask your boss before dignifying my post with a proper response. Your years in advertising have made you an excellent mind control operative even if you don't know it, you were an excellent choice.

Well, clans compete for points.

Your clan's total "karma" is calculated by the total posts of clan members. Also, forum staff can remove karma points (just like warning or applauding) if we see posts that are just karma spams.

Post count does not equate status.
Relating points to post count is once again a ridiculous notion and relating post count to 'karma' is even more so. Surely i need not spell out the reasons? Clan's will only divide, if only in a light-hearted fashion. Talk about and references to clanage will take up many posts and will become a focus instead the quality posting content that you say you seek.

Your clan's prestige would also be also based on members receive applause from staff. And how many of your members have been voted for the Way Above award.

As ATS evolves, we'll have ways for senior members to contribute to site content (not just forums).

Staff acknowledgement does not equate status.
So let me get this straight, if staff agree with a certain individuals posts or point of view they will be rewarded and may eventually achieve more privileges at ATS. Or will these sheep simply be rewarded for fact finding and information gathering? In which case, you're encouraging members to be devoid of emotion and soul. You are the queens seeking site content from your little worker ant's. ATS is becoming a machine.

It will also serve to make those who choose not to participate in clans, feel like outsiders and it seems as if they will be treated as such, by staff and fellow members if they will recieve less recognition and if past experiences are anything to go by.

The changes do not serve to better the site or the community. It is all about growth(for what purpose should be obvious) in exchange for

-Strict staff control
-Censorship
-An uncomfortable and unwelcome atmosphere for anyone in possesion of opposing viewpoints.

But what the hell, you get to play chess right?!?

I consider myself a teacher and a student of all topics here at ATS. I do not require nor desire a 'clan'. Nor do i wish to limit my focus, research and learning to one particular subject. I do not require staff admiration or some little bars to continue making useful, informative, quality content posts and neither should any other member. Members shouldn't need to be arranged into groups and labelled just to participate and work together with other members.

What i have admired about ATS is the broad range of opinions, expressions, perspectives and i'd like to see it continue. This being the only reason for such a post.

(I'm not ignoring your, nor your points, just waiting to see if there are other comments on this before I jump in.)

Bella & Ycon break it up save your bickering for some other thread. Im all about the clans and if we can have em w/o dividing the people here it would be great. But william the kind of clans im thinkin of are like ones fr Counter Strike and stuff. Like we have a home page and stuff and all share the same viewsare we on the same page??

Everyone here has different ideas. If you lump a load of ideas together in a clan, they will be watered down.

Clans won't be able to express their members true views.
Clans will also marginalise newcomers or put them off altogether.

It's also likely that the clans will fall apart quite quickly if newcomers don't join even quicker.
I don't see ATS as being big enough to host clans.

That's not to say that it wouldn't be interesting to see what happens to people's views when they're in a clan system.
And also how clans will react to each other if they do survive.

The Bella/Ycon spat has been removed...

Let's get back to discussing the concept of clans/grops/houses and how it might work.

William has a reason for doing this.

We need to hear that reason from William and try and give that reason meaning.

If we don't even know the purpose of these clans then of course it isn't going to work out.

Now I remember hearing William say that he wanted to use these clans so as to gather bigger and better sources of information with a more constuctive basis for research.

As far as I know William wants these clans to give ATS more creditability, not to take it away.

Now some here expressed that these measures that might be put into effect would only limit certian abilities of others because of the ways info will be received.

That I can agree with.

I really don't understand why some info will be credited more than other info simply based on credentials. That I think is a huge mistake and will only discredit and discourage those without those certain credentials, like the newbies for instance.

This is what I think should happen.

I think that William should try to explain the purpose of these clans and make that really clear.

Cause many here have different ideas on the purposes of these clans. We need clarity on this issue once and for all.

We also need to discuss why this clan thing will, or will not work. Otherwise we will be swept off our own feet.

(Just one man's opinion, nothing to take seriously)

[Edited on 8-6-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

I will take that as a NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

How about a End Times Clan

Originally posted by Ycon
I will take that as a NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

How about a End Times Clan

Well we know what Clan Nans will be joining.

So I quess I would have to start the Save the World Clan.

Who wants to save the world with me???


Abraham

Well... levitation has stirred the pot by brining up a topic he and I discussed in a few private exchanges. A topic I had assumed had been explained, and he was fine. I suppose not.

Yup, I'm an "evil advertiser." Two of my larger clients are a branch of the armed services and a major cancer hospital/research center. Evil stuff.

But before that, I've been online "forever". If anyone knows the name Mark Andreessen and where he took "Mosaic" you'll know that my help on that project had some success. And before that, a lot with CompuServe. But that's not the point, and this isn't the introductions forum. The point is, I've stopped making websites, and now only manage those that do. No hands-on, no code slinging, no Photoshop, no design. Instead, I run meetings, pitch clients, and write strategy (a book too, coming soon). It pays the bills nicely, but one needs a hobby... I suppose poking around in the ATS code is mine.

Ever since my start, I've been keenly interested in only communities. Here, some 10 solid years after the spark of the online revolution, digital communities are becoming important.

For a long time, it's been assumed that digital communities such as ATS will eventually reach a critical mass of diminishing returns. Too many members/posts will eventually lead to a fall-off in quality, forcing founding members to move on, content quality further diminishes, and the community dies. Well... this has happened, and will certainly continue to happen. But, what if it doesn't need to?

Consider when you go visiting at a friends house. If their house is nicer than yours is, you'll tend to turn your behavior up a notch and not mess up their seat cushions. Well the idea can apply to communities.

When a discussion forum is just a discussion forum, increased popularity can mean death, since it attracts a wide spectrum of riffraff. I think we can all say, that these past four months have seen the most amazing growth ATS has ever seen. We're averaging about 20 new members every day (some days a lot more), and many of them end up posting. And if anything, the overall quality of messages (minus the few interruptions by the inevitable trolls) seems to be improving. Is the reason because there is more that just a discussion forum here? And if so, how much bigger and how much better can it get?

The clans/groups/house concept is a way to encourage groups of members to collaborate in a structured way that they normally wouldn't have. Friendly competition is inevitable, but if done right (like our debates) it can add to the learning process. If the result is more new content for the main site, written by members of the forum, everyone wins.


Levitationjunkie eluded to ulterior motives. Perhaps if things continue as planned, there may be tasteful paid advertising integrated into the site. Perhaps even real prizes for certain site activities/events. These efforts cost money, and for a long time, Simon has had little compensation from the growth of ATS.


Sorry for the long post... now... the clans... how else could this concept evolve to help become a part of ATS getting better and better.

I think that many people don't really understand the purpose of these clans.

The purpose is to generate more constuctive thoughts and analysis of the particular situation being handled.

The clans are not meant to create competition.

That is what I think most people are equating this concept with.

They are mistaking it for some sort of feud.

It isn't supposed to be a civil war.

It is supposed to be a civil effort.

There is a difference.

Please people read William's thoughts on this and understand his reasons for doing this before you sign up.

William expects work not play.

Work that is fun, not fearsome.

You See???

I'd like to see a group of artists with regular contests. There could be shows and entertainment. Holidays like christmas there could be a festival of lights. Artwork with christmas decorations, just like if you would drive down the street going from house to house looking at the lights. Halloween would be another fun holiday, Easter, New Years, Valentines day, any holiday from the US and other countries. It would be fun to see how other places around the world celebrate.

The only problem that I can see with this is, the space it will take to host the pictures. What we can do is remove pictures each month so the new ones can be moved in and for those artists that have thier own site, allow them to have a links page here at ATS with links directly to their artwork.

This idea can be alot of fun, not only for the artists but for the viewers as well. There also could be a requirement to put the Above Top Secret name somewhere in each persons artwork, that way the pictures that are hosted on other peoples sites will be free advertisement for Simon.

Awards could be 1st 2nd and 3rd place ribbons or pics of ribbons placed in the same area as the warnings are posted or customized into their avatar. Down the road maybe there could be real prizes. One suggestion since I'm in the sewing industry is t-shirts, hats, wrist/arm bands and wallets. OzChris could make bumper stickers.

Advisor and I have stated we would like to start a government philosphy club. I mentioned a named akin to Patriots for liberty, freedom and the constitution.

He pointed me in the direction of the group originaly responsable for our countries conceptual birth.

Sons of Liberty. This group is already on the internet and takes donations. When I researched it.

However we would still like to form a group largly unnamed for now, with a social heirarchy.

Im not really sure what a clan would entail but thats a possibility.

The group would discuss soloutions to our countries problems and for the most part be %99 peacefull. Unless of course something really bad happend in this country. LIke Bush opened Internment camps.

Thats about all I can think of.

i think the clans would be a great idea. I would like to be in the alien/ufo clan.

can i have my own heckler clan?

since my beliefs dont coincide with anyone elses that well i want to have my own clan of hecklers that challenge people to....oh i dont know, use intelligence and maturity to make their points and arguments instead of mindless childish bashing and name calling.

all hail clan heckle!

The problem with clans is ...well...they're clannish.

People become tied to their own little clans and it encourages a bias.

Originally posted by William
Keep in mind...

The idea of "Clans" on ATS is not to create collections of people that pit themselves against the other all the time, but to create groups of like-minded people. For example, a clan devoted to Politcal Scandals would spend time researching and writing group articles on the topic... and hence, and comment on the forums form this clan about political scandals would carry greater importance... because it's from those who are making an effort to be experts.

It's a way for all of us to learn more... and have fun doing it.

I'm all for it.

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
can i have my own heckler clan?

since my beliefs dont coincide with anyone elses that well i want to have my own clan of hecklers that challenge people to....oh i dont know, use intelligence and maturity to make their points and arguments instead of mindless childish bashing and name calling.

all hail clan heckle!

I'll join you PM, you cant beat a good round of heckling

*slow hand claps this post*

How does 1 get into a clan?

Who wants me in their clan?!