If you want to discuss how real chemtrails are, do your part.

Thefourwinds:

This may have escaped you, but there IS already a solution to chemtrails:



You're welcome

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

lol.. yes I know about that.

Not the same.

b

a reply to: Bspiracy

Not the same.

Why isn't it?

Has somebody shown scientific evidence that what you saw was because of oil and not refracted light coming through a contrail?

originally posted by: anton74
a reply to: thorfourwinds

Before its news is another no-no. Icke, Greer, and Lear will just get you laughed at.

Could you please give us a better source of info than a conspiracy website?

That's why ATS is not used as 'a better source…'

a reply to: thorfourwinds

I have to ask why you included Jim Oberg as he is a member here?

So what he's a member?
So are you.
Read up on his take on then Tether incident and you will answer your own question.
O'berg is for NASA, no matter whether right or wrong.

a reply to: thorfourwinds

Read up on his take on then Tether incident and you will answer your own question.

Does this mean you aren't going to answer it for him or her?

I see this ploy a lot on ATS.

'Do you own research.'

'Read this link' (several dozen pages, with further links, long messy videos, etc., none of which gives a credible answer to the question).

'You have already answered your own question.'

I read them all the same way:

'Sorry, boss, I don't have an answer to your question, so grab this while I dodge, wriggle and squirm away.'

I've been watching your posts in this thread. False information (dead links), irrelevant information (geo-enginneering and stratospheric experiments, nothing to do with 'planes spraying chemtrails'), misdirection, prestitidigitation and one great snowball of an attitude.

You're not doing the theory you support any favours.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Because I could see the difference between the two is all I can say. . ice crystals at heights standing up refracting light as a rainbow is pure..
Meaning the colors are pure in what you are talking about and the refraction is a coherent spectrum.
What I used to see were clouds in middle of summer with an oily sheen at lower altitudes. The "sheen" was like oily water.. No coherence in the spectrum at all.

Again.. These do not exist in my area anymore.. They were prevalent for about 3 years throughout all seasons and then "poof".. Haven't seen anything like em since. At the same time they were floating around, flight patterns were also strange.

I've seen both examples in the sky at the same time.


b

a reply to: thorfourwinds

So what he's a member?

Exactly which means he really doesn't belong on your list. Mainly because he doesn't hoax people out of money by telling them lies. I mean he could, but I have never seen it.

So are you.

Yes, and I am not on your list either, so what is the point here?

Read up on his take on then Tether incident and you will answer your own question.
O'berg is for NASA, no matter whether right or wrong.

WHy not just go to his site and read more about that incident.

www.jamesoberg.com...

a reply to: Bspiracy

Because I could see the difference between the two is all I can say. . ice crystals at heights standing up refracting light as a rainbow is pure..
Meaning the colors are pure in what you are talking about and the refraction is a coherent spectrum.
What I used to see were clouds in middle of summer with an oily sheen at lower altitudes. The "sheen" was like oily water.. No coherence in the spectrum at all.

And how low were the altitudes, because for what some want to call chemtrails (white lines across the sky) occur between 28000ft and 40000 ft..

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I'm looking right now at a bunch of contrails which are common since an airport is nearby. Flight paths generally go around the airport or come from the airport and then turn towards whatever direction the planes are headed from the airport..

I never saw oily clouds at the higher altitudes.

The oily ones were much lower and possibly lower than the trails left by departing flights..

The oily clouds were present always after the strange paths of lower altitude planes flying in contradictory patterns to the typical flight paths that are associated with a nearby airport. Timeframe was generally a few hours after the strange paths before oily clouds hung around for a while at low altitudes..

The "chem"trails seemed to have purpose before these oily clouds would show. Example.. One morning at the crack of dawn I watched planes criss cross against normal patterns at the edge of a large forming cloud. One plane would hug the edge then another would follow 30 seconds behind and I watched at least 20 planes hug only the edge of the cloud in a pretty blatant attempt at making a huge one.. I actually hopped I'm my car and followed this activity for 20 miles as the cloud formed...That cloud was absolutely nasty in appearance and the same type of plane was used in all cloud hugging instances. The planes would fly 4 or 5 in one cloud hugging direction and then they would come back the other direction and then back again etc.. I didnt always happen like that, but that was the first time I began to believe something was friggin strange. After that I started to actually look around me.

Personally I think whatever was going on back then was studied, practiced and then halted to move towards higher altitude testing and then halted again...

No friggin clue as to what the purpose was.

b

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Very cool link about the tether btw. That's one of those I hadn't seen a true end to the debate for a couple of reasons.

However now that I've seen the photographs of the tether and an analysis .. It's finally a closed incident for me
Funny how not one person in 20 years asked to see the photos to prove whatever theory.

B

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: thorfourwinds

So what he's a member?

Exactly which means he really doesn't belong on your list. Mainly because he doesn't hoax people out of money by telling them lies. I mean he could, but I have never seen it.

So, that's how you view all items on my list of possible/utilized sources as people that "hoax people out of money by telling them lies"?

And why are you - the point person on this attack - so concerned about my list? That was a stream-of-consciousness reply to something that is still unanswered…is there a (stupid) LIST of 'no-no's on ATS?

BTW, Oberg is a member on our site and that does not give him a free pass.

So are you.

Yes, and I am not on your list either, so what is the point here?

You are not a credible source.

Read up on his take on then Tether incident and you will answer your own question.
O'berg is for NASA, no matter whether right or wrong.

WHy not just go to his site and read more about that incident.
www.jamesoberg.com...

I did, enjoyed the party line, and he came over to our site to discuss the situation further.

Back to topic, if you don't mind.

HOPI PROPHECY

Long before Columbus “discovered” civilizations long extant throughout the Americas, the Hopi elders of the Southwest foretell of the end of the Fourth Age of Man during a time of Great Purification.

This period will begin with the “tracks” and “spiderwebs” in the sky.



"It also appears that we ‘Chemtrail’ investigators have been chasing our tails, being intentionally discredited, maligned, and fed disinformation to keep the actual truth just below the levels of media perception.

The real story has been taking place in broad daylight, safely concealed under the scientific umbrella of ‘Geoengineering and intentional climate change.’ " Bruce Conway

Lisbon, the capital of Portugal, is also its largest city containing one-fifth of the country's population. The superb natural harbor at Lisbon is a commercially important European port handling much of the import-export traffic for Portugal and Spain. The Tagus River, which meets the Atlantic Ocean at Lisbon, originates in central Spain. It provides limited access to the interior Iberian Peninsula because it descends from the great Meseta plateau of central Spain through narrow gorges.

Vapor trails, like those crossing this image, are formed by the combustion of airplane fuel when a plane passes through a part of the atmosphere with relatively high humidity. The contrails themselves are actually plumes of ice crystals that can persist in the atmosphere for several hours. Most of these contrails are probably intercontinental flights coming and going from Madrid, Spain.

This image was taken from the Space Shuttle on February 13, 2000.

Sorry about the missed caption on a previous post. It is important to show that the information about contrails from NASA is on record and that it follows the party line.

What is somewhat of interest is that I have not been involved in the chemtrail debate as I have been dealing with "Total denial by governmental authorities, the shunning of Fukushima by mainstream media, the systematic dis-creditation of researchers, ongoing coverups by the scientific establishment, and a coordinated systematic policy of disinformation has relegated this topic to the realm of fantasy and paranoid delusion."

The same thing is happening with the chemtrail debate, and the two sides couldn't be farther apart.

As an admitted newbie to this party, I am bringing various, seemingly credible' (IMHO) information to the discussion and look forward to an honest discussion….thank you, Dude, for your civility, patience and compassion.

I was somewhat put off at the attitude of some participants that out-of-hand dismiss all information in a video that they admit they have not looked at…so much for an open mind and a real interest in this situation…YOUR lives, and the lives of your loved ones, are at stake here, too.

I looked at the banned video and now I understand why y'all don't want it viewed.

Still looking for that 'smoking gun' that was asked for…

One would hope that Zen Gardner is not on the dreaded "LIST."

Smoking Gun Proof of Atmospheric Spraying

"How do we know our skies are being sprayed?
Because we have film footage of the crime, of jets spraying at altitude.
This is the logical end of any argument or dispute on this issue."

Smoking Gun Proof Of Atmospheric Spraying - YouTube

a reply to: Astyanax
Greetings:

To play that game, I am hardly a novice, and I can assure you that the relevant information that I post will last a lot longer than one hour.

But, thank you for your opinion, and that's all it is, just your opinion, which is completely off-base, IMHO.

As far as following links and doing a bit of the legwork yourself, you will find that this
Med Hypotheses. 2004;62(5):746-54
is next to a label: Links

Which, of course is the Abstract

Chronic barium intoxication disrupts sulphated proteoglycan synthesis: a hypothesis for the origins of multiple sclerosis

supporting my claim:

"The high levels of Ba stemmed from local quarrying for Ba ores and/or use of Ba in paper/foundry/welding/textile/oil and gas well related industries, as well as from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signalling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc."

Document from the National Institute of Health concerning Geo-Engineering’s grave effects on our ecosystem’s and our health

Greetings:

One has to admit, the chemtrail believers have posted some pretty damning evidence of strange goings-on in the sky over Austin, Texas.

Chemtrails? Watch This! Then Try to Deny It - YouTube

Published on Dec 20, 2013
(Truthstream Media.com) The chemtrails hardly get any more blatant than this.

Just what is up with what we've all been seeing up in the sky?

Lingering, persistent aerosols that some dismiss as jet contrails or aberrant cloud formations are actually just the most visible and mysterious part of an ongoing geoengineering effort admittedly being tested (and enacted) on a wide scale.

On the surface, it is an effort to curb global warming by dimming the sun's rays; behind that veneer are corporate motives, population control agendas and bids to control & predict the weather and reap handsome profits on everything it effects.

Just how far it goes may be up for debate, but the denial that a geoengineering program is going on need go on no longer:



Here are just a few resources highlighted in the video:

www.publications.parliament.uk...…

www.geoengineeringwatch.org...…

www.cfr.org...…
www.theguardian.com...

www.imo.org...

www.theguardian.com...…

news.cnet.com...

acrf-campaign.arm.gov...

truthstreammedia.com...

in.reuters.com...

So, Barium is a dead horse here on ATS?

The only people that would try to bury this information would seem to have an agenda that is not conducive to the betterment of humanity.

Barium in the Blood: Chemtrails? - YouTube

Uploaded on May 18, 2011

About 3 months ago a Mohave County Resident, Mr. Alan Di Cicco, after feeling very ill for a long time, he did test his blood for Barium, Aluminum and other toxic metals.

His blood test results were alarming. The maximum levels according to Labcore labs for the BARIUM (a toxic element) is 2 and Quest Labs is 10…


Mr. Di Cicco levels were 150!! 1500% above the maximum levels!


After witnessing the last few years an abnormal traffic of low flight unidentified jets leaving trails that do not disappear, Mr. Di Cicco made some researches and learned about "chemtrails" and "weather modification".

Independents labs test by KSLA news it confirms Barium in chemtrails!


After learning from Mr. Di Cicco's barium results, other residents from Mohave County (Kingman, Golden Valley), and also Phoenix and Texas did the same test for Barium and Aluminum.

The results were shocking. Mr. Di Cicco results were not an anomaly. 12 more people tested for Extremely high levels of Barium in their blood.

a reply to: thorfourwinds

Graverobber!!!!

a reply to: thorfourwinds

Misrepresenting lab tests is for the betterment of humanity?

Nope it's just plain disinformation..

www.metabunk.org...

a reply to: Chadwickus

Every story has 1000 interpretations depending on the viewpoint.
Admittedly I can't jump on the bandwagon of barium because it fluctuates via perspective on how prevalent the element is via natural, manmade or whatever situation X has to offer.

I've read stories and seen pictures of areas never affected by chemtrails until the US Navy showed up on foreign soils for "exercises". ( those are gone from the inet now BTW)

I've read and seen tests from HVAC equipment in high altitude areas which are only touched by local air currents. ( can't find those anymore either)

I've seen other things as well but I have this one question to all the other believers.. Why only barium? Granted barium shows up naturally everywhere and also unnaturally but I don't believe thats' it. There's more to it than that.

I wish I had time which = available effort to help more but I think the issue is more complex than the ongoing pie thrown discussions now happening.

Better said.. I think whomever is responsible is also laughing at us and also laughing at the direction this debate has gone.

b

originally posted by: Bspiracy
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I'm looking right now at a bunch of contrails which are common since an airport is nearby. Flight paths generally go around the airport or come from the airport and then turn towards whatever direction the planes are headed from the airport..

Pardon? This makes no sense. Any traffic using a nearby airport won't ever leave any contrails (except maybe in Siberia or similarly cold places). You are more likely to see contrails where there is no airport within 100 miles of you, or from traffic that is nothing to do with your local airport. People often make this basic error.

a reply to: [post=19200230]waynos[/po
Or I live in a very high humidity area by the gulf.
The streams are more diverse when you start breaking higher altitudes.

Granted I don't see trails "from" the airport very often but I do see them enough to know that they come from the airport near me and where the planes are headed.

I'm not saying you can follow the trail back to the runway and I'm talking about 15 or so miles away from said airport.

When you see 15 large j's in the sky leading directly to said airport.. You know they come from it.

I'm not wrong on this matter.

Editing to add that the reason they are common here is there are two airforce bases within a few hundred miles and the civilian air traffic overlaps my area from other airports on either side if me following the coast ...

Funny.. I just saw the Lisban pic above and they also mentioned the area is of high humidity. The pic looks very similar to the geographic features of my area..