If you want to discuss how real chemtrails are, do your part.

originally posted by: firefirefly31
A relationship between these Ionospheric heaters and chemtrails is probably not anything but coincidence. However, if someone can prove that chemtrails and ionospheric heaters are somehow related then it might prove something like priority existing between the two.

How about we start with proving chemtrails are something other than ice crystals left behind planes flying. As of right now, there doesn't seem to be anything that shows them to not just be contrails.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: thorfourwinds

So now I am curious. Your link seems to not provide any information about barium spraying. It appears you were lied to from your source. (something that happens frequently in the chemtrail world) It made you look a bit gullible. Knowing that, are you still a steadfast believer in all things chemtrail?

Greetings:

Continued from above:










Project Skywater




This is priceless, considering the amount of snow in the Northeast USA this year.






Project Skywater-CRBPP



Intelligent Fog

"A research paper produced for the United States Air Force written in 1996 speculates about the future use of nanotechnology to produce "artificial weather", clouds of microscopic computer particle all communicating with each other to form an intelligent fog that could be used for various purposes. Artificial weather technologies do not currently exist. But as they are developed, the importance of their potential applications rises rapidly."



National Hail Research Experiment




Project Skyfire






▶ Operation Popeye - Weather Warfare in Vietnam - YouTube

There is a lot of talk about early weather modification and Operation Popeye in Viet Nam (1967-68) generally comes up as an early example.

"Ordered to "make mud, not war," the 54th Weather Reconnaissance Squadron attempts to drown the Ho Chi Minh supply trail [2600 missions]. The wholesale genetic poisoning of the entire Vietnamese population sprayed with dioxin-laden Agent Orange has already shown that the only country to use nuclear weapons against civilian populations is not shy about deploying weapons of mass destruction."

However, Project Cirrus preceded it by 20 years.

History and Problems in Weather Modification

On 13 Oct 1947, the U.S. Military (as part of Project Cirrus involving General Electric) dropped 80 kg of dry ice into a hurricane in the Atlantic Ocean, safely off the eastern coast of the USA. (Havens, Jiusto, Vonnegut, 1978, pp. 41-42)

The hurricane changed direction and traveled inland, where it did extensive damage to property in Georgia. The U.S. military classified the data from the seeding of this hurricane to frustrate litigation. (Ball 1949, pp. 225-226, p. 233)

Odd cooinkydinks, or not. Change Georgia to Mississippi and name the hurricane Katrina…

Attorneys for General Electric reviewed and censored Langmuir's scientific publications to avoid tort liability for damage by this hurricane. A biography of Langmuir says "For the first time in Langmuir's long career [38 years] at GE, officials occasionally wanted to know in advance what he was going to say in his public reports." (Rosenfeld, p. 205)

Langmuir (1953, p. 212 of Collected Works) believed that there was approximately a 99% probability that this hurricane's change of direction was the result of the cloud seeding. Langmuir's opinion about the effect of the cloud seeding on this hurricane is not mentioned in any of his publications in scientific journals, but is mentioned in the 1953 final report on Project Cirrus, which was classified by the U.S. Military. It is likely that attorneys for General Electric directed Langmuir not to make any public admission that cloud seeding caused the hurricane to change direction, in order to avoid litigation against General Electric by victims of the hurricane.

Subsequent analysis of the data by meteorologists showed that this hurricane had already begun to change its direction when the seeding was done. (Mook, Hoover, and Hoover, 1957) A modern assessment is: "... it seems very unlikely that the 1947 seeding could have had much affect on the hurricane except for the seeded clouds." (Gentry, 1974, p. 506)

Little is said about much earlier attempts.

1. Prof. Emory Leon Chaffee at Harvard University dispensed charged sand from an airplane during 1924, to attempt to modify weather. (McDonald, 1961) 

2. W. Veraart in 1930 dropped dry ice into clouds, in an attempt to modify weather. His technique and results were apparently published only in his book, which was in the Dutch language. (Byers, 1974, pp. 5-6) 

3. Prof. Henry G. Houghton of MIT sprayed hygroscopic solutions into fogs in 1938 to dissipate the fog.


Project Stormfury was an ambitious experimental program of research on hurricane modification carried out between 1962 and 1983. The proposed modification technique involved artificial stimulation of convection outside the eyewall through seeding with silver iodide.


Hurricane Modification PILOT TELLS ALL !!! Project StormFury!!! Why 'FRANKENSTORM' - YouTube



"… use of silver iodide as a seeding agent presents no DIRECT hazard to humans because the immediate concentrations of silver and iodine in the air and rainfall will be exceedingly small… with rare exceptions.

That's called collateral damage.





Chemtrail Fallout 2 - YouTube



INTERIM REPORT: State-of-the-Art in Weather Modification in the Pacific Southwest

I do have to agree with y'all on one thing:
Chemtrails is not the word to use…geo-engineering is a better choice.

Thank you all for your time and consideration.

a reply to: thorfourwinds

Erm, isn't that all about cloud seeding? I thought you were talking about chemtrails? Also, what's with the uncaptioned photo at the top? What are you saying it shows because it looks like Contrsils to me and cloud seeding doesn't leave contrails. You know that, right!

a reply to: thorfourwinds

Posting a link or videos from Infowars on ATS is highly frowned upon.

Geo-engineering is something that should closely monitored of course, but what does it have to do with persistent contrails?


ETA; I'm not trying to marginalize geo-engineering, it is just something that it should be discussed o its own without blurring the lines between it and contrails. Although, I would like to know hot 80kg of dry ice moved a hurricane like that.

a reply to: thorfourwinds

Greetings. Is there a chance you could substantiate that photo of contrails with the rest of the wonderful information about the history of cloud seeding? (you are aware that cloud seeding has nothing at all to do with contrails or for that matter, chemtrails, right?)

You put a lot of effort into this post and it's nice to see. I'd hate for you to get the wrong idea. It's just that you seem to have a misunderstanding of weather modification and it's relationship to contrails. Please look this up to clarify it better for you.

1. what level to contrails form at in the sky
2. what level does cloud seeding occur.

Thanks and have a super day.

originally posted by: anton74
a reply to: thorfourwinds
Posting a link or videos from Infowars on ATS is highly frowned upon.

Egad!

Admonished again for stepping on an invisible mine, another hidden IED.

Where does it end?

I asked before, is there a list?

While the “scientists”, the US military, and numerous other governmental agencies continue to deny the reality of the massive global geo-engineering programs, the enormous machine that runs these ever expanding programs continues to grow in plain sight.

Those that are attempting to expose the truth regarding the planetary weather/climate modification aerosol spraying (and the ongoing Fukushima disaster) are still marginalized by the state sponsored mainstream media which is all too willing to do as it is told by those in power, and even 'alternative' media has been infiltrated by paid dis-info agents.

And now, ATS has a 'do not open' list. lol

WHO'DA THUNK?

Deny (filtered) Ignorance!

You Members are so dumb that We, the Owners, have to sort it out for you!

What about these 'sources' that I have used in the past?

Do the Gods at ATS give these people a FREE PASS?

Here's a partial list for consideration...

If any are to be bounced, at least be civil enough to give a sentence or two as to why, in your opinion, this action should be taken.

Veteran's Today
Jim Fetzer
Gordon Duff
geoengineeringwatch.org
Dane Wiginton
Hatrick Penry
Steven Greer
JD Stenzel
John Massaria
Michael Schivo
Kevin Blanche
ClimateViewer
Jim Lee
Christine Consolo(Rad Chick)
David Icke
Nanc Hayfield Birnes
Bill Birnes
G. Edward Griffin
Dutchsince
Jim Marrs
Project Camelot
Kerry Cassidy
Michio Kaku
Project Avalon
Bill Ryan
Rense
Pegasus Research Consortium
John Lear
Zorgon
clif High
Jesse Ventura
Clifford Carnicom
Global Research
Clark McClelland
Alex Jones
Glenn Beck
BeforeItsNews
Dana Durnsford
Benjamin Fulford
Richard C. Hoagland
Mark Dice
Ted Gunderson
Arne Gunderson
Dr Chris Busby
Ace Hoffman
James Oberg

and the list goes on and on…

How does one of those 'banned' links make 'THE LIST' anyway?

Certainly not by popular vote, one might suspect.

a reply to: network dude

… but I have never seen anything other than guesses about aerial spraying. If you can prove it, then it's the smoking gun.

The only thing I set out to accomplish is prove that Barium was being added to the atmosphere by aerial spraying.

I did that.

The 'chemtrail' label came when mrthumpy jumped on the dog pile, eager to get a bite.

His "I think" comment is not empirical evidence.

A lot more carp was tossed, like this:

The dead Barium horse got beaten pretty good in another thread.

If you say so.

I asked for that information and was ignored.

The information I posted related Barium directly to illness, hardly a 'dead horse.'


The pics of the 'trails in the sky I posted were totally an opportune moment, not set up as another individual suggested, as I was on the shore taking a pine tree out of the lake and my brothers from the Lake Seed firehouse came out to test their new pump…I doubt they even knew I was there.


I took those pics from the point in the center of the photo.

So, what you and your fellow chemtrail-deniers are saying is that the thousands of people worldwide, 100's of grass-roots organizations and ALL the scientists and doctors that believe chemtrails are real, are completely mistaken and you guys are right?

That's good! The US government covered-up and denied the existence of Operation Popeye for twelve years before admitting that they (and their supporters) LIED to everyone attempting to get at the truth.

Why should we believe anything different is happening with Operation Shield, or for that matter, chemtrails?

We are speaking of crimes against humanity here, and the stakes couldn't be any bigger.

What about Foster Gamble and THRIVE?

Don't tell me that he is on that dreaded "THE LIST", too.

Chemtrails and Human Geo-Engineering | Thrive

Governments and corporations are deliberately manipulating and altering Earth’s climate, endangering the lives of people all over the world.

Two of the most extreme cases of geo-engineering are chemtrails – the release of toxic chemicals into the air that are poisoning people and the planet – and HAARP – an electromagnetic antenna array based in Alaska that can send radio-frequency radiation over large geographical areas and manipulate weather patterns causing earthquakes, tsunamis, and more.

These projects represent some of the worst crimes in history, yet most people are unaware of them.

Over a hundred patents [1] have been granted to major corporations, including Monsanto, for aerial spraying of materials that can penetrate your lungs and blood, cause disease, disrupt your mental capacity, cause you to be sterile and even cause premature death. These materials are being sprayed all over our planet – and on you – right now, without your knowledge or consent.ow, without your knowledge or consent.

For over ten years, observers have been noticing white aerosol trails being dispersed in the skies that don’t behave like usual condensing jet exhaust.

When seeking explanation, investigators are told by the government that these are just the normal “contrails” that we see coming from commercial jets and that they are perfectly safe. However, they don’t dissipate the way regular condensation trails do.

They linger for hours, spreading across the sky, and are often laid out in cross hatch patterns. The government has refused to test samples collected underneath the trails. Now a TV news report from Germany has confirmed that their military is in fact doing aerial spraying of chemtrails.[2]

An article from the NIH, the National Institutes of Health, confirms that not only are chemtrails real, but they are suspected to be responsible for a variety of neurotoxic conditions including MS.[3]

The high levels of Ba stemmed from local quarrying for Ba ores and/or use of Ba in paper/foundry/welding/textile/oil and gas well related industries,
as well as from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signaling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc.

Right back where we started. The military used Barium as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signaling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc.

Have a super day.

originally posted by: waynos
a reply to: thorfourwinds

Erm, isn't that all about cloud seeding? I thought you were talking about chemtrails? Also, what's with the uncaptioned photo at the top? What are you saying it shows because it looks like Contrsils to me and cloud seeding doesn't leave contrails. You know that, right!

I was never talking about chemtrails…you guys steered the conversation to suit your own desires.

originally posted by: anton74
a reply to: thorfourwinds

ETA; I'm not trying to marginalize geo-engineering, it is just something that it should be discussed o its own without blurring the lines between it and contrails. Although, I would like to know hot 80kg of dry ice moved a hurricane like that.

Classic!

Shoot the messenger or have him banned so the information doesn't get out.

Ask the military as they claimed responsibility.

originally posted by: thorfourwinds

originally posted by: waynos
a reply to: thorfourwinds

Erm, isn't that all about cloud seeding? I thought you were talking about chemtrails? Also, what's with the uncaptioned photo at the top? What are you saying it shows because it looks like Contrsils to me and cloud seeding doesn't leave contrails. You know that, right!

I was never talking about chemtrails…you guys steered the conversation to suit your own desires.

Well, this thread is about chemtrails.

BTW, below is the dead horse with hundreds of pages on barium for you.

ATS

a reply to: thorfourwinds

Before its news is another no-no. Icke, Greer, and Lear will just get you laughed at.

Could you please give us a better source of info than a conspiracy website?

originally posted by: thorfourwinds

originally posted by: waynos
a reply to: thorfourwinds

Erm, isn't that all about cloud seeding? I thought you were talking about chemtrails? Also, what's with the uncaptioned photo at the top? What are you saying it shows because it looks like Contrsils to me and cloud seeding doesn't leave contrails. You know that, right!

I was never talking about chemtrails…you guys steered the conversation to suit your own desires.

FFS, from your first post in this thread:

(The chemtrail aerosol spraying program began with the top secret U.S. Navy RFMP/VTRPE aerosol program, spraying a mixture of barium into our atmosphere from aircraft. The chemtrail program is associated with
Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio.)

An article from the NIH, the National Institutes of Health, confirms that not only are chemtrails real, but they are suspected to be responsible for a variety of neurotoxic conditions including MS.[3]

The high levels of Ba stemmed from local quarrying for Ba ores and/or use of Ba in paper/foundry/welding/textile/oil and gas well related industries,
as well as from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signaling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc.

Right back where we started. The military used Barium as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signaling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc.

Have a super day.

Your link is to PubMed, it is a search engine and not actually the NIH. Nowhere in the piece does the NIH confirm chemtrails nor is the article from the NIH itself. The piece is actually a hypothesis by Mark Purdey.

chemtrails = something I believed .. photographed... videoed... gathered many people to watch as I described what was going to happen and was never wrong.

However the phenomenon ended about 4 years ago and the "trails" moved to a stratospheric height for a bit and then stopped once again. When I say stratospheric, I mean they trails were only visible when the sun was setting and the highest reaches of planes were covered with trails..

Whatever the trails I saw years ago were are now gone. The clouds in my area haven't been "dirty" or "laden with oily rainbows" or planes intentionally flown on the edge of spreading "chemtrail clouds" to increase the areas of coverage.

What I witnessed is gone. The stories I saved on a hard drive from multiple countries has been struck by lightning and I can't provide the material

Chemtrails as I watched, noted, and spent a lot of time trying to document are no longer in my area.
This is the BIGGEST reason I still believe they existed..
Why they were or how will never be known to me.


b

a reply to: firefirefly31

That's a great point. I'd love to answer it but I don't think the context of this thread allows for me to discuss the topic very much.

Fair enough. How about these, then?

Substance from the chemtrails come down and appears to enter our nostrils.

Have you seen this happening? Do you know anyone else who has? Can they prove it?

originally posted by: thorfourwinds

originally posted by: waynos
a reply to: thorfourwinds

Erm, isn't that all about cloud seeding? I thought you were talking about chemtrails? Also, what's with the uncaptioned photo at the top? What are you saying it shows because it looks like Contrsils to me and cloud seeding doesn't leave contrails. You know that, right!

I was never talking about chemtrails…you guys steered the conversation to suit your own desires.

So you lie and also avoid answering the question you quoted. Why did you even bother? Welcome to the chemtrail forum.

a reply to: thorfourwinds

I like your style sir.

Since you are new to this area, I'll give you the quick run down of what we are here for. We (the debunkers) all seem to have some common interest in aviation and weather, and with that interest cam some specific knowledge. Before we get into the mechanics, I'll say this, we all agree the government is bad, they have done bad things in the past. Things have been sprayed before and while most things sprayed weren't a big deal, some were.

But, on the topic of chemtrails, the entire theory is based on blatant lies. The contrails that we all see are a by-product of planes flying. The science that explains them is easy to find AND understand. But, you do have to read it. Crying because Mick West printed it is a cop out. His site had all of it in one place.

Persistent contrails are made of ice crystals. Just like the clouds you see at the same altitude. You can even predict when you will see them. We had a poster here who spent some of his time predicting contrails for different areas with almost perfect results. He used weather data to do it.

My personal pet peeve with all this is how the hucksters continue the lie and push this garbage all to get $$$ from people who they brainwashed into not understanding basic science. (If you truly look at this from a science only standpoint, you will quickly see what I mean)

a reply to: thorfourwinds

Veteran's Today
Jim Fetzer
Gordon Duff
geoengineeringwatch.org
Dane Wiginton
Hatrick Penry
Steven Greer
JD Stenzel
John Massaria
Michael Schivo
Kevin Blanche
ClimateViewer
Jim Lee
Christine Consolo(Rad Chick)
David Icke
Nanc Hayfield Birnes
Bill Birnes
G. Edward Griffin
Dutchsince
Jim Marrs
Project Camelot
Kerry Cassidy
Michio Kaku
Project Avalon
Bill Ryan
Rense
Pegasus Research Consortium
John Lear
Zorgon
clif High
Jesse Ventura
Clifford Carnicom
Global Research
Clark McClelland
Alex Jones
Glenn Beck
BeforeItsNews
Dana Durnsford
Benjamin Fulford
Richard C. Hoagland
Mark Dice
Ted Gunderson
Arne Gunderson
Dr Chris Busby
Ace Hoffman
James Oberg

I have to ask why you included Jim Oberg as he is a member here?

As for the the others...if you have been here long enough you would know why they are frowned upon.

a reply to: Bspiracy

Whatever the trails I saw years ago were are now gone. The clouds in my area haven't been "dirty" or "laden with oily rainbows" or planes intentionally flown on the edge of spreading "chemtrail clouds" to increase the areas of coverage.

You do understand why clouds have a rainbow color to them right?

Bottom line: You might on occasion see a rainbow-like cloud. They are fairly rare. They’re caused by the presence of tiny ice crystals or water droplets in the air, which cause light to be diffracted or spread out.

earthsky.org...

It has nothing to do with oily clouds being sprayed by a plane.

As a contrail is essentially a cloud made by the aftermath of burning fuel to fly.

a reply to: Bspiracy

Chemtrails as I watched, noted, and spent a lot of time trying to document are no longer in my area.

They never were in your area...they were contrails that you misidentified as something that doesn't exist.