Germany does own poll, 75% crimeans wanted Russia

And that's why Russia needs all of Ukraine east of the Dnieper.a reply to: BooyaShaka

a reply to: DJW001

Where did I ever even imply that Crimeans are "stupid?"

I think this qualifies.

Former Soviets have no concept of democratic government. To them, an election is simply an opportunity to demonstrate their loyalty by checking the proper box on a piece of paper.

They are obviously not smart enough to grasp the concept.

Given that the Russians are their principle source of income, and that there are Russian troops hovering over them, the locals have no problem accepting Russian rule. That's why if you ask them if they are loyal to Russia, of course they respond that they are. If things had sorted.out differently, they would be proud to be Ukrainian.

So again I ask you what is your point? That it basically doesn't matter what the Crimeans think, as long as they choose the Ukraine?

That's the point that you are making in the end.

Whatever.

a reply to: BooyaShaka

You missed a few qoutes there.

Didn't miss a thing, as this was to show what Crimea has gone through since being Russian.

And even the two little things you think I miss back my post, as it looks as though things in Crimea aren't getting better but feel free to show me the evidence that it is.

a reply to: Dimithae

Only 75% ?

Then how did they get over 90% in the referendum?

The whole Russian action reeks of lies to me .

a reply to: Greathouse

Then how did they get over 90% in the referendum?

Looks like the joy of being Russian is fading.

Your attempts to misrepresent what I say are pathetic. Under the Soviet system, the more intelligent you were, the better you understood that elections were a loyalty test. There was no concept of democracy in the Soviet system.

You also distort my point about the poll: it doesn't matter because it reflects the Crimeans' perception of what they are expected to reply, not how they necessarily feel.

Also, you seem to feel that what the poll says matters only because it supports Russian claims. If the poll had turned out otherwise, would you be applauding it, or would you reject it as Western propaganda? A reply to: BooyaShaka

It's just geopolitics. Both Russia(former USSR) and the USA were playing a game as they have always have. Overthrowing the people's wishes and installing their own governments. Both countries have taken territory and created coups much more unlawfully, we could go all day on about that.

Once the coup happened all bets are off. an illegitimate government took over making the points about the legality of a vote moot.

Hypothetically lets say russia creates a coup in the USA and put communist in power. Various states now want to leave the union. northern states vote in majority to join canada via referendum. Is it legal? Is it right? Or are states bound by the laws of a previous government.

There isn't a right answer, if there is it's going to be hard to find.

All in all geo-politically Crimeans and Russians made the correct move. I highly doubt Crimeans wants to be in that failed state of Ukraine.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Sorry for the short post but. LMAO!!!!!!!!

a reply to: Greathouse

There were several numbers thrown in there if you bother to read it. In fact it went as high as 85%. I went with the lowest number I saw. Go read.

a reply to: Dimithae

That's still not over 90%. IE Putin lies regularly to his supporters.

a reply to: Greathouse

That's still not over 90%. IE Putin lies regularly to his supporters.

Which helps keep his popularity so high.

a reply to: Dimithae

By the way, if I received a telephone call from someone asking me whether I support the Russian annexation of Crimea and I lived in the Crimea. I would probably answer yes to interfere it was the secret police calling.

And remember what Samuel Clemens said about statistics.

"There are lies,
damn lies
and statistics"

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I know you're being sarcastic and it's funny. But it is outrageous and shows some posters have a agenda. When they spend months defending Vladimir Putin on a subject then when he says it was all a lie they ignore it and go onto defend another subject that will turn out a lie.

The staff must notice some of these pro-Russian trolls. And I cannot believe that those posters aren't banned. It's obvious that some of them are paid Russian shills and should be gone from this site because of their disinformation.

I mean many of these lies these posters tell Are no better than Bernie's stories who is constantly banned from the site.

a reply to: Greathouse

Check your messages.

a reply to: Greathouse

I know you're being sarcastic and it's funny

But also truthful.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
If he would have not invaded but simply pushed for a referendum he would have got Crimea anyway.

Uh, that's exactly what he did. The referendum passed overwhelmingly and Russia entered the region with troops to protect Crimea following said referendum.

Crimiean freedom fighters, who were pro-Russia, kicked Kiev out of Crimea before the referendum... by armed force. Putin obtained Russian parliament's approval to use force in the Ukraine to defend Crimea prior to the referendum, then 2 weeks later the Crimeans voted and joined Russia (with 97% of votes in favor, IIRC). Putin never invaded anything here.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Uh, that's exactly what he did. The referendum passed overwhelmingly and Russia entered the region with troops to protect Crimea following said referendum

You have that exactly backwards, you know. Where do you get your information?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Perfect post there,well done

Guys Putin is not nice,his lack of morality to Chechen civilian casualties show he's another in a long line of dangerous patriots who hide all the blood stains with their countries flags

But,as stated by burdman Crimea held elections and who can blame them realy!

This is not pro Russian this is pro truth,Russia has many problems but their blameless on Crimea

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I know you're being sarcastic and it's funny. But it is outrageous and shows some posters have a agenda. When they spend months defending Vladimir Putin on a subject then when he says it was all a lie they ignore it and go onto defend another subject that will turn out a lie.

The staff must notice some of these pro-Russian trolls. And I cannot believe that those posters aren't banned. It's obvious that some of them are paid Russian shills and should be gone from this site because of their disinformation.

I mean many of these lies these posters tell Are no better than Bernie's stories who is constantly banned from the site.

Are you saying that anyone that defends Russia from western aggression is a shill paid by Russia? People that have a concious and distaste bully tactics, never crossed your mind?

This reminds me of the Nuremburge trials. Any defence of an accusation is a crime in itself.