Germany does own poll, 75% crimeans wanted Russia

- Russia was allowed by a treaty to have soldiers in Crimea, and also to rotate them, so if Russia didn`t go over the allowed amount of troops, they actually haven`t invaded Crimea

- Once there was an illegal coup, which wasn`t recognized by Crimea and the Eastern Ukrainians, all arguments about things going against Ukrainian law don`t hold any merit anymore

- The real victim numbers combined, Ukrainian side, Separatists side and Civilians is probably about 25k dead, and permanently disabled victims 30k +

Seeing through the doublethink: Primary evidence on losses of the combatants at Donbass

Both sides in the Ukrainian civil war hugely overestimate enemy losses and conceal most of their own. Therefore, there is pressing need for a fact-based estimate of the loss of life.

Lostarmour.info database lists over 1000 destroyed and captured UAF armored vehicles. In previous similar conflicts (Chechnya, Syria, Iraq) the number of soldiers killed per armored vehicle destroyed was between 10 and 30. Therefore, we can conservatively estimate nationalist losses to be about 14 thousand KIA. There are also about 4 times this number of wounded, about a third of which will be severely permanently disabled. This is far greater than the (widely discredited) official Kiev claims of around 1500 KIA and 4500 WIA.

Rebel losses are lower, but probably closer to Kiev estimate of ~8000 KIA than to the rebel claims of 1000-1500 KIA; can be roughly estimated to be 5500 KIA and about 4 times this number of wounded.

Civilian losses due to direct enemy action are not concealed by either side and the estimates of about 5-6 thousand are probably correct.

Source

The actual Crimeans are the Tatars who oppose Russia, whether the Russians living in Crimea are happy they got annexed is immaterial as it is Ukrainian land, and Russia invaded them.

It would be like the US annexing Basque and you saying it's ok because the people living there are ok with it.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Or what real leaders do when They see thousands of people about to be killed and think They can save some of them. Thanks only to Russia, Crimea does not resemble donetsk or lughansk right now.

a reply to: Dimithae

So where are those anti Russia Bashers now like Xcathedra

Why aren't they apologizing now

a reply to: Aaamok88

Apologize for what? Is it ok for the US to invade Russia and annex Dagestan because the people living there want it?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Apologize for what? Is it ok for the US to invade Russia and annex Dagestan because the people living there want it?

Sorry

They don't want it

originally posted by: Aaamok88

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Apologize for what? Is it ok for the US to invade Russia and annex Dagestan because the people living there want it?

Sorry

They don't want it

That must be why they have been fighting for it for over 20 years.

You didn't answer my question, if the people of Dagestan want it, you think it's fine for the US to roll in the tanks and Annex Dagestan from Russia?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
That must be why they have been fighting for it for over 20 years.

You didn't answer my question, if the people of Dagestan want it, you think it's fine for the US to roll in the tanks and Annex Dagestan from Russia?

Sorry

People of Crimea VOTED to join Russia

And now it is proven those votes were real and valid

So time for you and your buddy Xcathedra to apologize publicly on ATS

originally posted by: Aaamok88

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
That must be why they have been fighting for it for over 20 years.

You didn't answer my question, if the people of Dagestan want it, you think it's fine for the US to roll in the tanks and Annex Dagestan from Russia?

Sorry

People of Crimea VOTED to join Russia

And now it is proven those votes were real and valid

So time for you and your buddy Xcathedra to apologize publicly on ATS

So are you in favor of giving Dagestan and Chechnya votes to leave Russia? Are you in favor of the US army rolling in and giving them a vote? Why can't you answer the question?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Aaamok88

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Apologize for what? Is it ok for the US to invade Russia and annex Dagestan because the people living there want it?

Sorry

They don't want it

That must be why they have been fighting for it for over 20 years.

You didn't answer my question, if the people of Dagestan want it, you think it's fine for the US to roll in the tanks and Annex Dagestan from Russia?

I borrowed this image from another poster to illustrate a point. How about America sticks to their own hemisphere and let countries sort out their own problems on their own borders. God knows you have enough problems there to sort out already without trying to mess up everything on the other side of the world too.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Stop deflecting

It doesn't become you, just apologize and move on, cut your loses

Were you ever a businessman, you cut your loses and move on

a reply to: sosobad

How about you follow the suggestion and keep out of things that are not your business. If you want to respond to my post then respond to my post, it asked a question, feel free to answer it.

originally posted by: Aaamok88
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Stop deflecting

It doesn't become you, just apologize and move on, cut your loses

Were you ever a businessman, you cut your loses and move on

There is no deflection. Only your refusal to answer because you are a Russian apologist and know your answer would not reflect well on Russia, and Putin may withhold your paycheck for this months propaganda fail.

Your claim, Crimea wanted to be given the vote, so using force to give them one is acceptable.

Dagestan and Chechnya, want a vote to leave Russia, why should Crimea get one and not Dagestan or Chechnya?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: sosobad

How about you follow the suggestion and keep out of things that are not your business. If you want to respond to my post then respond to my post, it asked a question, feel free to answer it.

So the US has a right to go anywhere in the world and get involved in anything it wants? Dagestan and Chechnya are nowhere near the US. Why would they go there? Is there a large population of Americans living in Dagestan or Chechnya?

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: sosobad

How about you follow the suggestion and keep out of things that are not your business. If you want to respond to my post then respond to my post, it asked a question, feel free to answer it.

So the US has a right to go anywhere in the world and get involved in anything it wants? Dagestan and Chechnya are nowhere near the US. Why would they go there? Is there a large population of Americans living in Dagestan or Chechnya?

Why are you focusing on the only part of the question that literally does not matter? I used the US as they are the only military strong enough to go in without Russia being able to stop them.

Let's change the US army to an Islamic super army that Russia has no hope of defeating because they have Alien Technology. If it's acceptable for Russia to go in and give Crimea a vote simply because they want one, why is not acceptable to give Chechnya and Dagestan the same chance? How about you answer the question if you wish to respond to my post.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: sosobad

How about you follow the suggestion and keep out of things that are not your business. If you want to respond to my post then respond to my post, it asked a question, feel free to answer it.

So the US has a right to go anywhere in the world and get involved in anything it wants? Dagestan and Chechnya are nowhere near the US. Why would they go there? Is there a large population of Americans living in Dagestan or Chechnya?

Why are you focusing on the only part of the question that literally does not matter? I used the US as they are the only military strong enough to go in without Russia being able to stop them.

Let's change the US army to an Islamic super army that Russia has no hope of defeating because they have Alien Technology. If it's acceptable for Russia to go in and give Crimea a vote simply because they want one, why is not acceptable to give Chechnya and Dagestan the same chance? How about you answer the question if you wish to respond to my post.

First of all you asked me to answer the question. I am after telling you that the US has no rhyme or reason to go there and now you are changing it to an Islamic army with alien technology? Talk about deflection. You specifically said the US before you start changing the question, you answer mine. Do you think that the US has the right to be on the other side of the world telling others what to do?

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: sosobad

How about you follow the suggestion and keep out of things that are not your business. If you want to respond to my post then respond to my post, it asked a question, feel free to answer it.

So the US has a right to go anywhere in the world and get involved in anything it wants? Dagestan and Chechnya are nowhere near the US. Why would they go there? Is there a large population of Americans living in Dagestan or Chechnya?

Why are you focusing on the only part of the question that literally does not matter? I used the US as they are the only military strong enough to go in without Russia being able to stop them.

Let's change the US army to an Islamic super army that Russia has no hope of defeating because they have Alien Technology. If it's acceptable for Russia to go in and give Crimea a vote simply because they want one, why is not acceptable to give Chechnya and Dagestan the same chance? How about you answer the question if you wish to respond to my post.

First of all you asked me to answer the question. I am after telling you that the US has no rhyme or reason to go there and now you are changing it to an Islamic army with alien technology? Talk about deflection. You specifically said the US before you start changing the question, you answer mine. Do you think that the US has the right to be on the other side of the world telling others what to do?

My answer is no to both. The US would have no right invading the Russian Caucus and Russia had no right invading Ukraine. That's the whole point and why no one will answer. Because while Chechnya wants that vote it's wrong for another country to invade to give it to them, just like it was wrong for Russia.

ETA: And of the two Chechnya has faced actual persecution.

a reply to: sosobad

I answered, why can't you?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: sosobad

How about you follow the suggestion and keep out of things that are not your business. If you want to respond to my post then respond to my post, it asked a question, feel free to answer it.

So the US has a right to go anywhere in the world and get involved in anything it wants? Dagestan and Chechnya are nowhere near the US. Why would they go there? Is there a large population of Americans living in Dagestan or Chechnya?

Why are you focusing on the only part of the question that literally does not matter? I used the US as they are the only military strong enough to go in without Russia being able to stop them.

Let's change the US army to an Islamic super army that Russia has no hope of defeating because they have Alien Technology. If it's acceptable for Russia to go in and give Crimea a vote simply because they want one, why is not acceptable to give Chechnya and Dagestan the same chance? How about you answer the question if you wish to respond to my post.

First of all you asked me to answer the question. I am after telling you that the US has no rhyme or reason to go there and now you are changing it to an Islamic army with alien technology? Talk about deflection. You specifically said the US before you start changing the question, you answer mine. Do you think that the US has the right to be on the other side of the world telling others what to do?

My answer is no to both. The US would have no right invading the Russian Caucus and Russia had no right invading Ukraine. That's the whole point and why no one will answer. Because while Chechnya wants that vote it's wrong for another country to invade to give it to them, just like it was wrong for Russia.

ETA: And of the two Chechnya has faced actual persecution.

Then why do you get so bent out of shape about the people of Crimea wanting to be part of Russia? Would you prefer that they would also be getting killed by the Kiev government? The people of Crimea had a lucky escape from what happened and oh looky here it the article stated that the majority of them wanted to be part of Russia. That post about the Tartar's shows the hypocritical nature of your stance. If you are so worried about the them why are you not worried about the people of eastern Ukraine that want nothing to do with the government in Ukraine? It is the same is it not?

As for your stance on the US foreign policy I think that we are in agreement for once. The US would bode well staying to their own side of the world as you've much bigger problems coming. When a foreign leader can stand in front of your Congress and advocate that your politicians send your youth to war and be cheered, while the other country involved sends letter stating they know more about your constitution than your own political elite the signs ain't good. The US needs to sort their own house out before trying to sort Russia's.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You sound very angry, what's the matter

Things not going your way