"US DoD have confirmed the UFO phenomenon is real"

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Pirvonen

a reply to: data5091

It is important to not confuse any of this statement with confirmation of an extra-terrestrial presence on earth. As far as the DoD are concerned I have not seen any statement by them. Burroughs is confirming that the DoD accept something happened to him whilst serving his country.

However the UAP could well be a 'natural phenomenon' that is is still not understood and affects human beings.

If it were "natural" phenomenon then why was his records classified ? Why was he stone walled ?

Damn swamp gas strikes again

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: mirageman

Here's how I read all of this. Of course the phenomena is real. We are probably behind it all. One day we will disclose how we made and built all of that stuff you guys think are alien space craft and we are closer to that day with this tacit admission , But today is not that day and you might not even be alive the day that it does come.

One small problem

UFO's pre date the wright brothers

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

You are quite entitled to disagree with me. That's what makes these debates interesting.

However the problem is that in the Rendlesham case I can not find any outright proof that "a physical object of obvious manufacture... emitting radioactive material" ever landed in the forest.

Although I'd be interested as to why you are convinced one did.

I am convinced it was a craft that wasn't made on this planet simply because the report coming from Burroughs and the base commander after it happened, and now 35 ish years later, these two have elaborated further plus another witness to the actual craft, and what it did while this event happened there is proof to me because I trust in the absolute integrity of these 3 individuals, and linked together with how the VA treated Burroughs and a couple others, including with other cases like the Vicky Landrum case in Texas where the AIR force did the exact same thing to her as they did to Burroughs.

In texas, a Senator had guaranteed that the Air Force would take care of Mrs. Landrum, but when they came to interview her they flip-flopped and screwed her over which ended up an death sentence to her, her daughter, and her daughter's son.

This is an old and tired ongoing modus operandi with the US Air force, and it has happened again, and again, and the Rendlesham case Proves this again ad nauseum, and to the detriment of the individual over the Air-Force's seeming need to squash the truth to save their own asses according to their absolutes that have been put in place long ago.

I remember everything usually, and I see patterns of dishonesty and even malice, which includes violent reprisals by our military in these kinds of close contact cases, and Rendlesham is one of the best examples.
I remember those shill debunkers that claimed even though they were not there as witnesses, that all those guys saw in Rendlesham was a lighthouse. Even though they were hired to guard Nuclear weapons on that base.

The military doesn't Hire "Insane people" that might think a lighthouse is a flying alien triangle do they?
Of course not, but when these top dollar men report something odd, they are immediately thought of as ignorant GI Joes with no brains and no training by the people who don't have time to believe in UFO's from offworld, because they are so smart and self gratified in their system of knowledge and already know for certain that no UFO's are alien spacecraft.

But now that this document has been released, who does it really expose? It exposes those distant debunkers as the only ones who were actually full of crap this entire time.

I can see through dishonesty whether I am speaking to someone directly, or reading about what people did, what they say, and how they say it. I can spot agendas, paradigm limiting patterns of dialog in different peoples statements and such, especially in the UFO field. I don't care if they are true or not, what I do is analyze testimonies and just from that, I can spot an honest person, and I can tell how intelligent they are by how they describe things and how they respond to ridicule and how they deal with the aftermath of their incident, especially by noting and carefully looking at how the military treats them after the event and lots of other things all add up and tell an intricate tale. And from that I can see what is real and what isn't.

When an object is up in space in orbit and elsewhere, it picks up a lot of free radioactive materials that stick to it, and when they come back and land, some of that material is left behind, and this was recorded in the forest there.

No one on Earth has a small advanced space craft like the one Burroughs saw and touched. Whatever it was, it was definitely in space before it landed because of the radiation it was contaminated with, and so it is possible it could be a secret craft, but not likely in the slightest. It is easy for me to connect all the dots, but I know this is not how everyone rolls, and they would just say to themselves that if they don't understand what I am saying, then I am the one who is wrong.

Another link is how craft of unknown design have bothered nuclear weapon storage areas many times, and when this happened in Rendlesham, no one knew that this base had nukes except those cleared and stationed there.

Either these others can see where they are on Earth by their advanced tech, or someone on Earth with clearance is sending them the coordinates so they can go there and do what no military would ever allow, and that is messing with our nukes.

This is what convinces me of an extra-terrestrial element here.

Burroughs and his attorney believe that Project Condign's suggestion that Burroughs and others present for the Rendlesham/Bentwaters event may have been exposed to the types of radiations discussed in its report for "longer than normal UAP sighting periods" explains Burroughs' heart problems and has caused the DoD to confirm the existence of the UFO phenomenon.

They also believe, as stated by Burroughs, that this is “Top Secret confirmation that humanity is dealing with an intelligence capable of engineering interstellar travel.” In other words, he believes, like some of you, that it's aliens.

Yet Project Condign does not.

How do you rectify this?

originally posted by: JohnPhoenix
Intersting but this says Nothing.

All it says is that the fellow was injured by "Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon", not UFO's UAP's could be many things all of which can be terrestrial.

I hadn't thought of that.. Are you saying that this object described by several witnesses could be a biological life form from Earth that we just haven't yet discovered? One that is lighted, illuminated, self propelled without sound, and can take off vertically and be gone in seconds from view?

That would be amazing to catch one, discover what it eats, and put it in the zoo as a newly discovered animal from Earth.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

No it had to be a nuclear powered flying light house. Because nuclear powered flying light houses are an issue of national security.

If another nation would get thier hands on nuclear powered flying light houses imagine the implications. They could fly to wherever they want to at will and misguide ships at sea.

It has to be terrestrial after all if it is nothing close to conventional aircraft animals or "aerial phenomenon" it must be swamp gas , venus or nuclear powered light houses ; )

Disregard those trained observers , its natural phenomenon that is classified just because ... light houses lol

The idea that UFO's are actually life forms native to earth is kind of silly. If you are educated on the history of UFO's you should know they are metallic often and structured with windows in some cases and landing gear. No rivets present but clearly some craft of unknown origin.

Not critters , stop it !

Then some speculate or make the assertion they are top secret man made military craft. Here lies the problem. IF they are ours and are a black project then the last thing you would expect is for them to fly hover over densely populated areas.

The last thing youd do is fly one of these craft over restricted air space , over nuclear warheads possibly provoking military to fire on your vehicle. Its nonsense. And to think if we had flying saucers at least since the 1950's that tech would be privy to the public and the antigrav in our possession. We would be living like the jetsons right now. But we are still using jet propulsion today. Why would our military use obsolete technology for over 60 years in light of this. It all points to non terrestrial presence.

Aliens , time travelling humans , inter dimensional beings , angels or demons take your pick.

Not ours , not from this planet or century

Deal with it

a reply to: PlanetXisHERE

Yes, sure, and none of those issues exist in any "regular religions", the thousands of pedophiles in the Catholic church at least don't scam people, no politicians are corrupt, no corporations scam/cheat/kill people, out and out cults at least are more honest about scamming people........

I think most people are attracted to "New Age" because they realize the "Old Age" religions, political systems, and economic models are terribly flawed. And you want to tarnish the whole movement because of a few bad apples? I'll take New Age over Old Age any day. The intentions of most are pure, unlike the ones running "Old Age".

However, this is getting way off topic, and out of respect for MirageMan and his excellent thread, we should get back on topic. However, if you are interested, I would be happy to debate you in a "New Age" vs "Old Age" thread, but I wouldn't have any time to get into it until next weekend, around March 8.

It takes a very irrational mind to make the leap of faith from 'old religions bad means new age must be good'
....

People are attracted to New Age cults because they employ psychological warfare to ensnare minds; they prey on disillusioned people. They specifically seek out people who have lost their faith, because human nature has a void that needs to be filled, and it's easy to appeal to. New Age cults use repetition, reliance, information control, physical restriction, authority compliance, ad nauseum to keep people coming back.

Come on, you dont even acknowledge your own hypocrisy. "And you want to tarnish the whole movement because of a few bad apples?" followed immediately by "The intentions of most are pure, unlike the ones running "Old Age"." But that aside, you're making a hostile attribution bias, and you're assuming for some reason I must support mainstream religions just because I point out that the New Age movement is a big stinking scam? MKUltra has its fingerprints all over these cults, give it a read. It is more than telling that the majority of "alien channellers" and other new age cults are led by CIA-connected individuals. As I already mentioned Crowley's OTO, Lavey, Aquino, Ron Hubbard, not to mention Jim Jones, The Finders, Rael promotes social engineering and one world government. Need I even continue...

a reply to: Ridhya
And by the way my original question was on topic, as I asked mirageman whether he thought intelligence agencies may have been involved in adding this new age tract into the stories of servicemen, which didnt exist originally.

a reply to: DarthFazer

If it were "natural" phenomenon then why was his records classified ? Why was he stone walled ?

Well the fact that those records are classified means we can only speculate.

Back in 1980 Bentwaters/Woodbridge was one of NATOs largest airbase facilities containing US nuclear warheads. Technically this was in violation of the treaty with the United Kingdom although the matter is still something that neither government will confirm or deny to this day.

Now say those medical records document that Burroughs came into contact with something 'nuclear' housed on the base. If that contact then caused the damage to his heart then this may be the major reason his records are classified.

You know, if electromagnetic interference with the temporal lobe happens with this type of thing (something I see pop up every time I look into this) it does greatly explain some of the awe shown by the people affected.
Check out the God (or Koren) Helmet:
en.m.wikipedia.org...

Damage to (and I'm assuming interference of) the temporal lobe normally brings trouble understanding an forming speech, this could (again, I'm assuming) affect a person's inner recounting of written words, thinking they were symbols or vice versa.

If some kind of natural plasma phenomena affected someone's temporal lobe through the EM it would undoubtedly emit at close range it could give them a deeply meaningful sense of presence, sounds can be misinterpreted as unspoken words directly beamed into their mind.
Add it all up and it would all feel so ET.

Then again, I could be talking out my ass.

a reply to: pooknuckle
While electromagnetic fields can cause disturbances in perception of all senses, as well as radiation, it typically has to be close up. You'll notice Persinger had direct contact effects rather than at a distance, as mirageman has been trying to get across repeatedly, no witness actually touched the craft.

That doesnt mean that a theoretical craft couldnt produce a far more powerful EMF than the helmet. I just dont think in this specific case, it applies. But hey combine that with remote control of brain activity via ultrasound, and you have a psyop explanation for most events...

Is it just me or we getting a lot of U.F.O. confirms now from government bodies? Used to bury it all, not really sure why some of it got covered up after reading over the reports after they let out. Some seemed down right harmless, just a saw something odd couldn't ID nothing more to it really. Does not mean it's a E.T. just that we have no clue what they really saw.

This brings a couple questions to mind for me. One is in tow part but can be lump together, why are we seeing the increase in sightings and number of confirmed sitings. We did have a little slow down for a while, but now it's really bumping up. Is the media just getting hold on it and trying to milk it for all it's worth right now? Two what is the main cause of the U.F.O sightings? Could it be E.T.'s or something else we don't know about on world that we just don't truly understand yet.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Firstly thanks for taking the effort to post your thoughts and I have certainly not solved the Rendlesham case so a lot of it remains open to interpretation and sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Can't disagree when you say :

.....Air-Force's seeming need to squash the truth to save their own asses according to their absolutes that have been put in place long ago.

This applies to government bodies and corporations the world over as well.

I can see through dishonesty whether I am speaking to someone directly, or reading about what people did, what they say, and how they say it....

Well what do you make of the original witness reports taken a few days after the incident?

Jim Penniston (who was alongside John Burroughs) is the ONLY witness on record to describe a structured craft of any sort in his statement. He clearly states he never got closer than 50m to the craft.

....Left vehicle, proceeded on foot. Burroughs and I were approx. 15-20 meters apart and proceeding on a true east direction from logging road. The area in front of us was lighting up a 30 meter area. When we got within a 50 meter distance, the object was producing red and blue light. The blue light was steady and projecting under the object. It was up the area directly extending a meter or two out. At this point of positive identification I relayed to CSC, SSgt Coffey. A positing sighting of the object…1….Color of lights and that it was definitely mechanical in nature. This is the closest point that I was near the object at any point.

13 years later he'd noticed glyphs on the side of it but did not understand what they were. 20 years later he also revealed a notebook he'd kept and made notes whilst inspecting and touching an unknown craft for some 45 mins and even attempting to photograph it. 30 years later he revealed he'd received a binary code from the craft but (unlike the glyphs) as he did not understand it decided to keep the binary code hidden in his notebook until 2010. Bizarrely the code was actually a message in ASCII (English) giving a list of co-ordinates across the globe.


clip of Penniston's statement

Is Penniston a liar, has he been subject to mind control or is he simply prone to extreme exaggeration after becoming a UFO personality?

Because John Burroughs has no memory of Penniston ever inspecting 'a craft' at close quarters and only saw coloured lights despite being with him in the forest. His statement and others are all available to read in a number of places : click here for one.

When an object is up in space in orbit and elsewhere, it picks up a lot of free radioactive materials that stick to it, and when they come back and land, some of that material is left behind, and this was recorded in the forest there.

The radiation readings have been dismissed by many sceptics. But even if we accept they peaked in the alleged landing area the readings were definitely not harmful levels.

No one on Earth has a small advanced space craft like the one Burroughs saw and touched. Whatever it was, it was definitely in space before it landed because of the radiation it was contaminated with, and so it is possible it could be a secret craft, but not likely in the slightest. It is easy for me to connect all the dots, but I know this is not how everyone rolls, and they would just say to themselves that if they don't understand what I am saying, then I am the one who is wrong.

Well I'm sorry but you are wrong. John Burroughs never claimed to have even seen a craft. Jim Penniston is the one claiming to have touched a craft.

Another link is how craft of unknown design have bothered nuclear weapon storage areas many times, and when this happened in Rendlesham, no one knew that this base had nukes except those cleared and stationed there. ...

But the problem is that Jim Penniston is the only witness on the first night to claim he saw a structured craft. Neither Burroughs nor Ed Cabansag ,who were both with Penniston, saw anything more than strange lights.

On the third night Larry Warren claims to have seen a landed pyramid shaped craft and strange entities at Capel Green. None of the other witnesses (Adrian Bustinza is an exception) will confirm Larry Warren was even there.

Colonel Halt who was in charge also chose not to issue a full alert and call for air support. So if he felt his nuclear weapons storage areas were compromised, and the huge beam of light hitting the ground in front of his group in the forest was really a threat, then why did he take no further action and eventually return to base?

originally posted by: DarthFazer
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

No it had to be a nuclear powered flying light house. Because nuclear powered flying light houses are an issue of national security.

If another nation would get thier hands on nuclear powered flying light houses imagine the implications. They could fly to wherever they want to at will and misguide ships at sea.

It has to be terrestrial after all if it is nothing close to conventional aircraft animals or "aerial phenomenon" it must be swamp gas , venus or nuclear powered light houses ; )

Disregard those trained observers , its natural phenomenon that is classified just because ... light houses lol

Well thanks for making me laugh!

But the Orfordness lighthouse has long been cited as the cause of the Rendlesham incident.

**********************************************************************************************************************************************
PLEASE NOTE SO THIS IS VERY CLEAR

Personally I don't see how so many airmen could not recognise a lighthouse . Well not for 3 days whilst risking causing a minor international incident. They were technically outside their jurisdiction on UK territory once they left base.

*********************************************************************************************************************************************

That said I do believe it probably did confuse the issue at times. Many of the men had no idea there was lighthouse at Orfordness as they were fairly new to area and most had never ventured into the forest.

Here is a video clip of the lighthouse flashing accompanied by part of Halt's tape. So I think it did distract Halt and his group in some part on the third night.



Cabansag's and Burroughs statements also mention a flashing beacon that they eventually identified as the lighthouse on the first night. Although Burroughs has clarified this was not the initial light(s) they observed earlier on.

There was also a Soviet rocket booster burning up in the earth's atmosphere over Southern England on Christmas Night 1980 (around 9pm) and a meteorite display at approx 2:45am Boxing Day morning(described as 10 times brighter than Sirius in the Jan 1981 edition of New Scientist). Which coincides with the time the airmen were out in Rendlesham Forest.

These are verifiable events and possibly contributed to the confusion of the first night of events.

But don't think this means I subscribe to the lighthouse theory!

originally posted by: Ridhya
a reply to: Ridhya
And by the way my original question was on topic, as I asked mirageman whether he thought intelligence agencies may have been involved in adding this new age tract into the stories of servicemen, which didnt exist originally.

It's entirely possible. Colonel Halt believes that a number of the junior ranks involved were subjected to sodium based interrogation in 1980 (although unknown to him at the time). Larry Warren's story is a very strange part of the Rendlesham incident and he describes a drugged 'briefing' in an underground facility in his book 'Left at East Gate'. Jim Penniston has also told how he was interrogated by British and American 'agents' under the influence of truth serum. In fact Penniston's ever expanding story perhaps suggest that this was more than questioning and a certain "New Age" influence was implanted in his mind. The seeds slowly coming to the surface over the next 30 years........

But who knows?

originally posted by: ObjectZero
Is it just me or we getting a lot of U.F.O. confirms now from government bodies? Used to bury it all, not really sure why some of it got covered up after reading over the reports after they let out. Some seemed down right harmless, just a saw something odd couldn't ID nothing more to it really. Does not mean it's a E.T. just that we have no clue what they really saw.

This brings a couple questions to mind for me. One is in tow part but can be lump together, why are we seeing the increase in sightings and number of confirmed sitings. We did have a little slow down for a while, but now it's really bumping up. Is the media just getting hold on it and trying to milk it for all it's worth right now? Two what is the main cause of the U.F.O sightings? Could it be E.T.'s or something else we don't know about on world that we just don't truly understand yet.

Well this thread is certainly not confirmation from agencies within either the US or UK government. It is only implied by a former US servicemen and his attorney.

But yes I seriously doubt that 'governments' know exactly what UFOs are. The commissioning of the UK's Condign report implies that anyway. This was never meant for public consumption and comes before the UK's own Freedom of Information act was introduced. If the UK MoD knew anything secretly about UFOs then there would be little point requesting a report on the UFO (UAP as it is called in the report) phenomena.

I'm not sure we are seeing any real increase in sightings. Perhaps lights in the sky and CGI fakery are appearing more often on Youtube. But the quality of the reports is very poor and there certainly don't seem to be many detailed reports of alien landings and encounters like we had back in the latter half of the 20th century. The media is probably hyping it more because true journalism is costly. It's much easier and cheaper to pay people to trawl social media. So you get more celebrity quotes from the likes of Twitter along with some of the more esoteric stories seen on the likes of this site.

And if I knew what the true cause of UFO sightings were then I would not be replying to you in this thread. But is almost certainly a number of different things that some people will always equate as being aliens.

originally posted by: Frith
So we can finally drop the lighthouse debunking. I've seen several long posts from skeptics about the lighthouse story here and elsewhere for years. Good to see it being refuted.

Indeed. I'd like to hear their response to this. The lighthouse explanation was always dumb and insulting.

I should contact James Oberg and see what he says, because I recall that was his contention, that they were all dopes that were duped by a lighthouse. He'll probably say nothing.

I wonder if the other witnesses look at Penniston with the side eye. Because it's really his testimony that's most problematic.

Some information that may be helpful in this discussion:

Damage to the heart valves is known to be caused by x-rays. There is a large body of evidence that links heart valve problems to exposure to x-rays, such as documentation on the long-term side effects of radiation therapy: Try google “radiation therapy heart valve damage”.

A 2011 report of the International Commission on Radiological Protection states that “particular attention should be paid to radiation effects in the lens of the eye and in the cardiovascular system, because of recent published observations of radiation effects in these systems occurring after much lower doses than reported previously.”

The Condign report, however, mainly focuses on RF and microwave radiation, which is of a much lower frequency than x-rays.
As far as I know, the Condign report does not mention any connection between heart problems and ‘UAP radiation’.

Only exposure to x-rays would have made a solid case that John’s heart problems are related to radiation exposure during his tour of duty.

There are several cases in UFO history where eye witnesses suffered from symptoms much akin to radiation sickness after a close encounter with a UFO.

In the Rendlesham case, Nevels brought his camera on the third night and developed the film himself, but discovered it was fogged due to exposure to some radiation source during the night.

Ruppelt, the former head of project Blue Book, writes about a group of scientists in 1949 which discovered by accident how peaks in radiation coincided with UFO sightings: www.nicap.org...