"US DoD have confirmed the UFO phenomenon is real"

a reply to: Constance

As I read what you write here, you yourself seem inordinately willing to accept at face value whatever the PTB in your country tell you.

Well I use real evidence rather than merely supposition, rumour and belief to form my opinions.

a reply to: mirageman

"Quite a number! [re the list of unreleased Condign documents]

Perhaps they were missing due to admin errors or were retained for reasons of national and international security? Anything that would identify private citizens and any private contractors also have to be removed before being released under the terms of FOI. Although I know of at least one MoD file that was released and failed to conceal the identity of a private citizen."

'Administrative errors?' Errors that can't be corrected? Re protecting the 'identities of private citizens and private constractors', easily managed by deleting or obscuring them. Not good enough, mirageman. 'National and international security'? Covers a multitude of secrets, in the UK as well as the US, without explanations of what "security" means to the secret-keepers.

"I really don't know what's in these files nor why the delay (other than the reasons given above). We will have to see when they are released."

Yes, when and if they are released. Our task in the meantime, should we choose to accept it, is to reason out what seems to be going on behind the screens of military and governmental secrecy, especially by critiquing that which is released and the holes that appear in it -- in the Condign case the Rendlesham hole. Some of us accept the representations of the PTB; some of us don't. Those of us who don't have many good reasons not to, which seem to escape you.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Constance

As I read what you write here, you yourself seem inordinately willing to accept at face value whatever the PTB in your country tell you.

Well I use real evidence rather than merely supposition, rumour and belief to form my opinions.

What makes you believe that what is released publicly is 'the real evidence, the whole complement of the evidence, and nothing but the evidence'?

This proves once and for all that they were not confused and looking at a lighthouse. Wonder what else is being covered up.

Does the late Betty Cash and her grandson get a retro-active settlement or acknowledgement on their UFO encounter if the U.S. DoD verified the Rendlesham Forest incident? I think the young Cash deserves some form of closure on the matter.

a reply to: Constance

Until the files are released I don't know and neither do you unless you have a clearance to read them?

Give it your best shot then. Explain what you think happened at Rendlesham?

a reply to: Constance

What makes you believe that what is released publicly is 'the real evidence, the whole complement of the evidence, and nothing but the evidence'?

Well firstly I cannot know what evidence is still hidden away. So I can only go on what is made public. I will speculate on what I don't know.

But when it comes to what I do know then the only way to back that up is with the evidence available.

The evidence made public leads us down conflicting paths.

If Jim Penniston told me Arsenal had won at the weekend I'd have to verify it. Or do you believe his story? And if so which one?

Was it he never got within 50m of a craft, was it seeing glyphs on the side as it lifted off, or did he receive a binary download after touching it?

Did Colonel Halt see lazer like beams of light hit the WSA (Weapons Storage Area) at Bentwaters whilst his boss watched or was his boss (Ted Conrad) correct when he said "Despite a sparkling, clear, cloudless, fogless night with a good field of view in all directions, we saw nothing that resembled Lt Col Halt’s descriptions either in the sky or on the ground". Tim Eggercic who was actually on duty in the WSA at the time also claims that no such beams came down on the base.
What explains Halt's failure to call for air cover if he felt there was such a threat then eventually trudge off back to base with the lights still in the sky?

How do we explain John Burroughs story and Larry Warren's stories? Burroughs did not see Penniston get anywhere near a craft despite being within a few feet of him (in fact he just saw lights). On the third night he has no recall of Larry Warren being out there.

The only hard evidence we have are the witness statements taken just after the incident. Colonel Halt's 17 or so minutes of tape during his excursions off base, the Halt Memo, the MoD released files on the case, and the photos and plaster casts taken by the USAF on Dec 26th 1980.

originally posted by: SheilaSmith
Does the late Betty Cash and her grandson get a retro-active settlement or acknowledgement on their UFO encounter if the U.S. DoD verified the Rendlesham Forest incident? I think the young Cash deserves some form of closure on the matter.

It's interesting that this incident occurred just a few days after the Rendlesham incident.

But I am no expert on the case and consider another of our members CardDown (aka Curt Collins) to be very familiar with this story. So can I recommend further reading.

Here on ATS:

The Cash-Landrum suppressed government file

And also his excellent blog:

Blue Blurry Lines

There is also a very rare interview recorded with Colby Landrum in recent times

I'm sorry but, did you all listen to this from Nov 2015?

2nd Nick Pope Interview

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Pirvonen

a reply to: data5091

It is important to not confuse any of this statement with confirmation of an extra-terrestrial presence on earth. As far as the DoD are concerned I have not seen any statement by them. Burroughs is confirming that the DoD accept something happened to him whilst serving his country.

However the UAP could well be a 'natural phenomenon' that is is still not understood and affects human beings.

I get what you are saying about not rushing to conclusions, but a natural phenomenon that organizes itself into a flying triangular craft with bright lights and metal which emits radiation and was witnessed by several people up close is quite a natural phenomenon. I mean, that's really quite a thing. Of course that is just taking their report of it at face value, something no skeptic is mentally or emotionally equipped to do.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Well, in a way, we've been over this before here : www.abovetopsecret.com...
I guess you'd forgotten.

The 'flying triangle' is Jim Penniston's (post 2000) story and his alone. A witness who is so unreliable that the diary he supposedly took with him into the forest and made notes has the wrong date on it. None of the other witness statements confirm a structured craft was seen.

Do you believe Binary Jim? Or do you believe the stories of all the other witnesses? Well except for Larry Warren who seems to have gone completely loco in recent times. Even Adrian Bustinza virtually wrote him out of any meaningful role in the case.

Project Condign pretty much concludes that this was a natural phenomenon



possibly a form of plasma and that we may be able to weaponize it.



That this natural phenomenon could affect the perceptions of the person in close proximity





This is supposedly the document that swayed the VA to settle the Burroughs case discussed in this thread. However we don't know for sure what factors were involved in this case. So it leaves some aspects open to interpretation.

originally posted by: mirageman

This is supposedly the document that swayed the VA to settle the Burroughs case discussed in this thread. However we don't know for sure what factors were involved in this case. So it leaves some aspects open to interpretation.

Which brings us right back to the supposedly defunct Cobra Mist...

The spontaneous operation of certain kinds of electrically initiated devices which are normally carried only by commercial and military vessels and aircraft.

Most Secret: The Hidden History of Orford Ness. By Paddy Heazell

a reply to: Anaana

Nice to bump into you again Anaana.

Cobra Mist does rear it's head again. Jenny Randles wrote a number of Rendlesham UFO Incident features in Fortean Times earlier in the year from January through to May.

You might find it interesting that Cobra Mist is mentioned again there.

I did a review of her articles starting here : www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'll also send you a PM in case you wish to know a bit more.

a reply to: mirageman

Have I mentioned before how much I love this case?



Which is not to say that I take enjoyment from Burroughs et al and their experience, it's just that it is impossible to nail down and no matter how many times I come at it, there is always something more for the story to give, generally as well as specifically to the case.

I am half way through the articles. Really good so far, I may have a few quibbles, but shall hold back on those until I get through the remainder as they could be covered in the round up.

Thanks ever so.

a reply to: Anaana

Interesting articles but for me, she just skirts over the really promising stuff, such as, the British exercise off the coast and I was unhappy with her assessment of why Cobra Mist was stopped. She either hasn't looked into it, or misunderstood. The exercise off the coast, in conjunction with the way in which the Cobra Mist technology was subsequently developed in terms of Ionospheric sounding, and the side effects that had been observed in the testing of Cobra Mist by one of the leading experts in Ionospheric Sounding who worked for an arm of the British military...seems somewhat of an oversight to me.

Perhaps that's not "Fortean" enough though.



Thanks they're a good read and I really appreciated you pointing them out, I wouldn't have seen them otherwise.

a reply to: Anaana

In fairness to Jenny she has had to become a full time carer for her mother since 2002. She was asked to write these articles based on her original notes. Which perhaps explains the gaps.

I don't know how far you want to delve down the Rendlesham rabbit hole.

But in the sister thread to this one we've had a few 'finds' that expose some very questionable things about Larry Warren and his involvement in the Rendlesham story, his relationship with the Beatles, May Pang and other celebs!



Plus Jim Penniston's binary code co-ordinates have been found to exist on a website prior to him mentioning them(exactly to about a yard!).



The symbols were also found on a ground radar device. Apparently Penniston is suing for copyright. Don't ask me how you can claim copyright of something you see on a UFO?



All this and more...............


Perhaps start : here and then work your way back!!! Jenny Randles takes part in the thread along with a few other people...

if you can put up with the sarcasm and a lot of craziness go back to here : www.abovetopsecret.com... and it will soon be Xmas.

a reply to: mirageman

No criticism was meant of the author, it was more of an observation borne of the frustration that what interests me about this case is not really what interested her. She is entitled to her own editorialism, as are Fortean. Lots of new stuff in there that I hadn't seen so well ordered chronologically, so got more out of them than those little niggles.

As time permits, I will have a read through of the other stuff. Thanks again.