Gamergate and Cyber Bullying

You guys are picking part the details of my arguments, which is okay. It gives me a better understanding of the issues and helps me correct my thinking and sets me straight on some points. However, I still think my two overall points are correct and that you are getting lost in the details and can't see the bigger picture.

1)Gamergate started off bad and got worse and doesn't represent me, even though I'm just as upset about ethics in gaming as you are. I am.
2)It's hijacked to the point of alienating people. Like me. gamergate has alienated me. It's true.
3) You've pointed out before that there was a big movement already underway before the gamergate "hashtag" and Zoe Quinn's ex crybaby boyfriend came to the forefront. Why does that movement have to stop and those gamers have to "Join" gamergate or unite under that banner. I won't.

So if 2 is correct and it is. then for me, 1 is correct and I can just jump on the momentum of 3 and bypass gamergate all together. We're all better served. That's what I'm doing anyway. That way I support females in gaming and don't get involved in the trolls, mens rights activists, rapists and online bullys.

Gamers are a collective, as I've been told above. I was also told that my little things I do independently won't have any effect. But if thousands or hundreds of thousands of us do these little things, like boycott certain brands, stop going to certain websites, comment on boards and forums, write letters and everything else we do, we will be effective.

We don't have to side with the trolls to bring about better ethics in gaming. We can stand up for better ethics while also building up and supporting women in the gaming community. We can stop supporting the use of "Gate" because we aren't retarded and we can make a difference.

Cheers.

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: amazing
I don't want to be associated with all these trolls, mens rights activists and antifeminsts that have jumped on the gamergate tag.

I've asked you HOW MANY times now, for links to materials showing this kind of activity being engaged in

This any good?

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Nope...not even close.

That wiki entry, just like the main GG one, is heavily biased, and the antis have gone to great lengths to get people topic-banned, for trying to keep things honest.

Not to mention that it still doesn't show any evidence of anyone claiming affiliation with GG, engaging in the behavior in question...which is rather odd...you'd think if examples existed, they'd be plastered all over the page...

a reply to: Daedalus

Oops! Wrong Wikipedia article, should've been this one!

I have no idea who's right or wrong in all this, but I worry about it.
 

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

Again, heavily biased....Quinn is a known liar.

Funny story: Her first attempt to get "Depression Quest" on steam greenlight, failed...hard... Nobody was interested in it. So she accuses an online community called "Wizardchan" of harassing her, the most serious accusations of this came in the form of her claim that wiz had doxxed her. This never happened. When the alleged dox was fact-checked, it was found that every part of it was completely bogus. And then there were her claims of having received harassing phone calls, in which she says members of wiz masturbated into the phone....despite nobody saying anything, and the dox being completely faked. She made a big deal of this, and generated publicity..

After this, she put DQ back up for consideration, and would you believe, it got voted up, and approved in no time?

She's a hack, and a liar...

originally posted by: amazing
You guys are picking part the details of my arguments, which is okay. It gives me a better understanding of the issues and helps me correct my thinking and sets me straight on some points. However, I still think my two overall points are correct and that you are getting lost in the details and can't see the bigger picture.

Well...the devil's in the details...

An intellectually honest conversation cannot be had, until you drop the BS talking points, and understand that you're horribly misinformed, and that you've been lied to.

1)Gamergate started off bad and got worse and doesn't represent me, even though I'm just as upset about ethics in gaming as you are. I am.

You're misinformed about how it started, and you're misinformed about the current state of it. You're repeating talking points, and you're basing your opinions on propaganda, and outright lies.

2)It's hijacked to the point of alienating people. Like me. gamergate has alienated me. It's true.

No, Amazing, it's NOT true....it's not hijacked, it's not full of the people you think it is, and, i'm sure you'll take offense to this, despite my best intentions, but the people being alienated, are halfwits who can't be bothered to fact check what the MSM is telling them. I am truly sorry if that offends you, but instead of getting mad, perhaps you should take it as the most sincere way i can manage, to urge you to stop accepting what you've been told, at face value. You're a member of ATS...dig deeper, and Deny Ignorance.

3) You've pointed out before that there was a big movement already underway before the gamergate "hashtag" and Zoe Quinn's ex crybaby boyfriend came to the forefront. Why does that movement have to stop and those gamers have to "Join" gamergate or unite under that banner. I won't.

No, there wasn't a movement....there was the general state of discontent in the gaming community, because we suspected that there was corruption, and we were disappointed with the games press, acting like f**kwits....it wasn't until there was outright PROOF of impropriety, and outright corruption, that this whole thing really kicked off....if you're talking specifically about Quinn, stop it. Nobody cares about her, and who she may, or may not have banged....she is irrelevant, and has been since about a week after the GG hashtag came into existence. if you wanna go on just being disappointed, that's entirely up to you.... GG is about action. GG is to the gaming community, what a magnifying lens is to sunlight....

So if 2 is correct and it is. then for me, 1 is correct and I can just jump on the momentum of 3 and bypass gamergate all together. We're all better served. That's what I'm doing anyway. That way I support females in gaming and don't get involved in the trolls, mens rights activists, rapists and online bullys.

Sorry man, One is bollocks, and two is bollocks...GG supports females making games, playing games....whatever...GG has no problem with women. You're misinformed.

Gamers are a collective, as I've been told above. I was also told that my little things I do independently won't have any effect. But if thousands or hundreds of thousands of us do these little things, like boycott certain brands, stop going to certain websites, comment on boards and forums, write letters and everything else we do, we will be effective.

No, gamers aren't a collective....we're not a mob, we're not a herd...gamers are individuals. All a "gamer" is, is a person who's primary hobby is playing video games. Aside from that shared interest, each gamer is completely different. What you're describing, is EXACTLY what GG is doing....boycotting brands, boycotting sites and publications, spreading the word through forums, social media, and other available venues, and writing letters....GG's doing all that, and has been VERY effective..

We don't have to side with the trolls to bring about better ethics in gaming. We can stand up for better ethics while also building up and supporting women in the gaming community. We can stop supporting the use of "Gate" because we aren't retarded and we can make a difference.

You're misinformed about the troll thing, you don't even seem to have an understanding of what GG actually does, or stands for..

And as much as i detest people pasting the suffix -Gate on everything under the goddamn sun...it's actually mostly appropriate, in this case..

GG isn't retarded (though i'm sure there are people with mental handicaps, that support GG, and #NotYourShield, and they're more than welcome), and it IS making a difference....despite all the bleating from the morons in the MSM, the constant trashing from the game's press, the people who are supposed to represent us, the shrill noises from those screeching harridans in the SJW/RadFem set, and the bogus claims of people like Wu, Sarkeesian, and Quinn..

Do your damned homework!

a reply to: Daedalus

One day I'll be tech savvy enough to do the cool multi quote thing but until then I have to reply in a simpler fashion. My apologies.

I do get that there are thousands of good people, perhaps like yourself, how are using gamer gate to push better ethics in gaming. You are. But I still feel, and I do my homework, watch videos and read articles daily on this giant mess, that's gamer****. I refuse to put the retarded gate at the end. You should too.

But I still feel that if 50% of gamer**** is doing good, the other 50% is doing harm by bashing women and focusing on Quinn and the rest. I feel like gamer**** is doing more harm than good. It's pushing for better ethics but doing more harm to women in the gaming industry.

I won't be a part of it. Sorry.

a reply to: Daedalus

Strangely enough.
GG has been supporting someone who had her door kicked in and was raped by three men.
Who incidentally is getting more or less ignored by aGGros and feminists.

On January 19th, 2015, Cytherea and her family was victims of a home invasion by five armed men. The armed men held Cytherea's family at gun point, stole a number of valuable items and sexually assualted Cytherea before police arrived. Weeks later, police was able to apprend the suspects to find three of the five men and found to be the age of 18, 17 and 16.

"Charges against the three defendants include five counts of robbery, four counts of kidnapping, three counts of conspiracy to commit sexual assault and one count of sexual assault.

All three were charged as adults."

www.youcaring.com...

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

i mean, it's cool that GG supporters are doing what they can to help out....and i really hate to sound cruel, or uncaring, but this isn't even a gaming-related thing....i see this more as "good on them, for being decent human beings"

i dunno if any of that makes sense...

originally posted by: amazing
One day I'll be tech savvy enough to do the cool multi quote thing but until then I have to reply in a simpler fashion. My apologies.

it's really not that tough....quote tags, man...look at the raw text of my post, it's simple enough to do.

I do get that there are thousands of good people, perhaps like yourself, how are using gamer gate to push better ethics in gaming. You are. But I still feel, and I do my homework, watch videos and read articles daily on this giant mess, that's gamer****. I refuse to put the retarded gate at the end. You should too.

as i said before, this is one of those rare occasions where the -gate suffix is actually more or less appropriate....this is why i tolerated it this time.

The difference between me doing my homework, and you doing your homework, is that you seem to have some confirmation bias...you're only seeing the things that reinforce the beliefs you hold, which are based entirely upon bad information.

I've seen both sides.

But I still feel that if 50% of gamer**** is doing good, the other 50% is doing harm by bashing women and focusing on Quinn and the rest. I feel like gamer**** is doing more harm than good. It's pushing for better ethics but doing more harm to women in the gaming industry.

Look, i'm going to make this clear...i HATE having to repeat myself EVERY goddamn time i reply to you....

GG isn't about bashing women, it's not about Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu, or Zoe f**king Quinn...these women have literally nothing to do with this...

the only reason ANYONE thinks they do, is because of the propaganda being pushed by them, and the MSM, and the games press..

I won't be a part of it. Sorry.

Nobody's asking you to be. If you're completely ok with being demonized just because you like video games, that's cool....and honestly, if you can't be bothered to look beyond the surface, see what's actually going on, and think for yourself, then we really don't need you anyway.

All we're asking is that you don't go around talking out of your ass, about something you clearly don't understand, and can't be bothered to actually learn the facts about...

a reply to: Daedalus

Well, it is yet another fact that proves GG isn't misogynistic.

a reply to: Shamrock6

The internet is full of people who say terrible racist/sexist things, make threats, and troll just because they can or find it funny. It doesn't mean that just because a Feminazi put herself out there as troll bait, and received a response, that there is some crazy gaming culture against women.

People read too much into the dumbest # sometimes...

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

fair enough....

a reply to: Daedalus


Are you sure you don't have confirmation bias though? I mean you have the opposing view and seem to not even consider my perception as valid.

I realize that YOU are not bashing women and that gamer**** as a collective or whatever you guys are, doesn't have woman bashing as a core principle. I get that. However, the thousands of trolls, Men's rights activists, anti feminists do hold that as a principle and they are flocking to gamer**** whether you want them to or not and they are jumping on all the articles, forums, discussion boards and twitter feeds and everything else. It's really hard to be a female in the gaming industry these days. For every one unethical journalist you uncover and for every charity you donate too, dozens of females get harrased and threatened and vow never to get involved in the industry.

You then said that in this case Gate is justified. How so? Where is the Gate? I need to know. Remember that WaterGate was the actual name of the hotel where Nixon's scandal happened. I know this is off our main discussion but YOU said that Gate was okay in this case. NOT so. It's never okay to put gate at the end of a word. Yeah?

originally posted by: amazing
Are you sure you don't have confirmation bias though? I mean you have the opposing view and seem to not even consider my perception as valid.

See, that's the important bit... "my perception". That's YOUR viewpoint, YOUR way of seeing it....

If you're colorblind, you perceive the world around you, much differently to how a normally-sighted person does. Crazy people have a much different perception of the world, to how a non-crazy person does.....

Not saying you're crazy(just misinformed), i'm just trying to illustrate the point that your PERCEPTION of things, may not be in line with reality.....in fact, it f**king isn't..

I realize that YOU are not bashing women and that gamer**** as a collective or whatever you guys are, doesn't have woman bashing as a core principle. I get that.

No, Amazing, i don't think you DO get it, as you still seem perfectly happy to "throw the baby out with the bathwater", as it were.....

You have this horrible problem with guilt by association, and in this case, it's not even real guilt by association, as you keep associating people with GG, that nothing to do with it, and then using that as a justification to bash GG as a whole.....based on this strawman that the media, radfems, and SJWs have constructed, and you so readily embrace...

However, the thousands of trolls,

Citation Needed.

Men's rights activists,

Citation Needed.

anti feminists

Citation Needed.

do hold that as a principle and they are flocking to gamer**** whether you want them to or not

Citation Needed.

and they are jumping on all the articles, forums, discussion boards and twitter feeds and everything else.

Citation Needed.

It's really hard to be a female in the gaming industry these days.

B.S. Talking point. Citation Needed.

For every one unethical journalist you uncover and for every charity you donate too, dozens of females get harrased and threatened and vow never to get involved in the industry.

Citation Needed.

Bloody hell...If we were playing a drinking game, where i take a shot every time i had to type "citation needed", i'd be f**king plastered right now....

You then said that in this case Gate is justified. How so? Where is the Gate? I need to know. Remember that WaterGate was the actual name of the hotel where Nixon's scandal happened. I know this is off our main discussion but YOU said that Gate was okay in this case. NOT so. It's never okay to put gate at the end of a word. Yeah?

I'll quote from the wiki:

The suffix is used to embellish a noun or name to suggest the existence of a far-reaching scandal, particularly in politics and government. As a CBC News column noted in 2001, the term may "suggest unethical behaviour and a cover-up".

Seems as though it's rather appropriate, in this case.

a reply to: Daedalus


Really? You really think Gate is okay to use to embellish a noun? No citation needed on that. Use of gate is never okay.

We can have discussion about the usefulness of gamer**** and if it is causing more harm than good, but I think we're at an impasse when you don't think that there are any trolls associated with the movement or are flocking to it.

You obviously don't read any gamer**** articles especially any written by women. You've got to open your horizons and stop drinking the Koolaid.

And as we speak.
The aGGs eat one of their figureheads Brianna Wu.
For having coffee and declaring a personal truce with a pro-GG CEO.
With such funny and self contradictory lines as "I support all trans women. But she's a fake woman.".

These are the people who's word you are taking as fact OP.

originally posted by: amazing
Really? You really think Gate is okay to use to embellish a noun? No citation needed on that. Use of gate is never okay.

This exemplifies everything i've pointed out about your attitude, and the way you've handled this from the beginning.

You cherry pick the bits that either fit your bias, allow you to construct a strawman to attack, or simply allow you to attack your opponent directly, and then you ignore the rest....

Let's examine the quote a little closer, shall we? Pay special attention to the bold bits

The suffix is used to embellish a noun or name to suggest the existence of a far-reaching scandal, particularly in politics and government. As a CBC News column noted in 2001, the term may "suggest unethical behaviour and a cover-up".

It is certainly more appropriate in this application, than in a LOT of the other situations it's been used in. But then again, since you have no idea what GG actually is, or what it's actually about, i guess i could see where you wouldn't get it..

We can have discussion about the usefulness of gamer**** and if it is causing more harm than good, but I think we're at an impasse when you don't think that there are any trolls associated with the movement or are flocking to it.

I believe I said something to that effect, several posts ago. No intelliectually-honest discussion can be had, until you let go of your misinformed beliefs, and stop making baseless, unsubstantiated accusations, and assertions.

You KEEP making the claim that GG is full of these awful people, yet you never provide any evidence that such is the case....

You obviously don't read any gamer**** articles especially any written by women. You've got to open your horizons and stop drinking the Koolaid.

ROFL!

This is the single stupidest/funniest thing you've said all thread.

There is so much projection going on here...jesus man.....

You're implying that i don't read up on the subject, when i clearly know more about it than you....you claim i don't read articles by women, when, in reality, i have...though, i don't care what gender the author is, so long as they're saying something intelligent, and they're making good points...because i don't do the whole "social justice" gender politics game....

And then you have the audacity to accuse me of "drinking the koolaid", when all you do, is deny anything you don't agree with, make baseless accusations, and spout off anti-GG talking points...

originally posted by: c0gN1t1v3D1ss0nanC3
a reply to: Shamrock6

The internet is full of people who say terrible racist/sexist things, make threats, and troll just because they can or find it funny. It doesn't mean that just because a Feminazi put herself out there as troll bait, and received a response, that there is some crazy gaming culture against women.

People read too much into the dumbest # sometimes...

It exists and there are females here on ATS that have portrayed themselves as both sexes in gaming and found discrepancies. I too have portrayed myself as male in online poker games, with much less insults when I won a hand. Let's put it this way, while playing online poker as a perceived male, I was never called a 'River Whore', whereas as a female player, insults such as these were commonplace after a win.

a reply to: InTheLight

And i'm sure most gamers are not gonna consider people who play online poker, to be fellow gamers...

There's also the little problem of how this in no way proves that GG is about hating women...