Gamergate and Cyber Bullying

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: amazing

Why don't you try reading my replies to you a page or so back? We can start from there.

That is, if you're actually interested in a conversation...

Look I don't have the time, I work and don't spend all day harassing women in the gaming industry, like your gamergate buddies. So this is the best I got but I think it sums it up. Cheers

So, let’s go back a little bit. This will ramble but I’m tired.

What’s really going on here? I have used some hyperbole, especially the use of the word terrorist, but the definition of terrorist is---a person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims—now that definition can also be used for religions aims or philosophical aims like in this case… cyber bullying and rape and death threats come pretty close to that definition of terrorism. Yes?

Gamergate was a hashtag created by Adam Baldwin, but really who is this guy and why should anyone care? I do get that you and other gamers uniting under the banner of gamer gate feel that it is about ethics in journalism, but it’s such a huge, ambiguous movement filled with the worst kind of internet trolls and violent people. Gamergate has been taken over by a horrible mob of women haters, mens rights guys and everything else thats bad on the internet.

What is Gamergate? It’s a culture war(meaning do women have the right to push for games they want and voice their opinions online without the threat of harm and without dozens of hateful posts after they do voice their opinions) that, to me, seems to be about female game makers, reviewers and critics and journalists and bloggers--against an onslaught of negative people, misogynists, anti-feminists, internet trolls and then people like you who appear not to be like that, but still defend gamergate to the end. You're in with a bad crowd.

What’s so important about this chaotic movement to you and is there really any good that can come of it? I keep thinking no. Really with all the negativity around it, how can gamergate get to anything good. That should be the one question.

You could say that Feminists have been HiJacked by feminazis and the likes of Femon and PRiot, but I see value in what they are doing and no woman has ever negatively affected my life. No feminist can. I’m to well adjusted and comfortable in my own skin. Too mature. But, why do, we on this thread, bring in other movements. I mention it only for one point. You may say that feminism had a good point at first for women’s rights was taken over by radicals. But you cannot say the same about gamergate. It wasn’t started by guys that wanted ethics in gaming journalism it was….started by a jilted lover and a B actor

And it started with Zoe Quinn with her game Depression Quest. Then one of Quinn’s ex boy friends or her only ex boyfriend..he…spewed a bunch of online whining about her cheating on him with several people in the gaming industry…his take was that she was trying to get ahead in her career, very unethically. One guy upset that his girlfriend cheated on him. That’s the issue. And then some B-list actor with a hashtag and all the retards rejoiced because it had the word gate at the end and mob mentality broke out. But is there any proof that this actually happened?

Without any proof or anything, Quinn was already getting harassing tweets and social media posts, I mean like right after this guy put it out there online. Being on ATS you know that anyone can say anything.

It’s all out there to see. Anonymous people have posted Quinn’s personal address and nude pics of her shortly after her exs online posts. She has been forced out of her house with death and rape threats. These are known and not fake or fabricated threats, in my opinion...you could say that Brianna Wu, jumped on the bandwagon, but what topic doesn't have someone like that?

What ever happened to the male journalist that she had an affair with? Any rape or death threats to him? It would seem that he should be the bigger problem if any of these allegations were true? Why is there no gamergate rampage for Nathan Grayson?

Why, then was Anita Sarkeesian targeted next after posting an ongoing video series she has about women and gaming? She also had credible threats against her and was forced to leave her home because of them and cancel speaking engagements. She should be a totally different topic altogether. Why she even involved in gamergate? What about the harassment of Jenn Frank and Mattie Brice? Why are they involved? WWhy not ignore Brianna Wu?

My biggest argument is that whatever the message evolved into about ethics in journalism it has morphed far beyond that and been hijacked by the Mob of trolls and lunatics.

You of course could say the same thing about any movement, like someone did for feminism, but that’s not quite accurate and how does bringing in another movement help us in this discussion. It doesn’t. Let’s keep this to gamergate, which of course had at it’s genesis nothing but a jilted lover. And furthermore where is all the gamergaters, telling the mob of trolls and lunatics to leave Quinn, Wu and Sarkessian alone? Where is that voice? And let's keep in mind that anyone criticizing the gamergate movement has come under harsh criticism. Mostly for no good reason.

Will you say it? Will you say that any harrasment of a female by a gamergater is horrible and needs to stop? I mean any harassment at all. We don't handle ourselves this way in the modern world. Or is a rape threat okay with someone you philosophically disagree with?

Call them out right here and now.
How about this
medium.com...@andreaszecher/open-letter-to-the-gaming-community-df4511032e8a

an open letter to the gaming industry by Andreas Zecher of Spaces of Play-which by the way Zoe Quinn signed.

Anyone can do some google searching and see how horrible these online trolls are. Just mention gamergate and everyone gets bent out of shape. But in the end, does Brianna Wu, really matter? Why can’t Sarkessian post her videos…What’s wrong with her point of view. Who cares if Zoe Quinn had sex with someone in the gaming industry? She’s one person. Gamergate is a hot mess and you need to get as far away from it as possible. Associating with violent lunatics is never good.

I don’t have the time to write a complete research paper and go back and forth with you on every single point. But I’ve laid it out. I read a lot, I put a lot of thought into the things I don’t like and my little causes. Gamegate is really about hate for women. No good can come out of it now. It was never hijacked... it started out as a guy who didn’t know how to keep is girlfriend happy and then whined about it all over the internet and then she got doxed by the internet. And then everyone that has any critique of gamergate…far less vitriolic than me, get’s dozens of hateful posts or tweets if not hundreds of hateful posts and tweets. I live in America and it’s okay to have freedom of speech and an opinion on anything I want. Everyone has that right. A movement that is characterized by rape and death threats is not okay. Death to gamergate. I said it right there.

Create a new hashtag. I'll help.

#ethicsingaming

Go now and create the world in gaming you really want to see.

a reply to: amazing

Of course you're not.
Of course there are threats not originating from Sarkeesian and/or Wu.
There are idiots after all.
Where you fail is you pretend that GamerGaters condone the threats.
We don't, and a large portion of us will jump on the morons when they pop off.
I know, I have done it more times than I care to count.
But you, intentionally, ignore that.
I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

Also, both Sarkeesian and Wu have been caught doing it.
Wu in a impressively stupid mistake recently.
She forgot she was in her admin account and heckled herself.
Which promptly disappeared when she realised her mistake.

But hey, if you like having your self righteous outrage manipulated to line the pockets of conmen.
Sarkeesian's new mansion being rather blatant evidence of that.
Crusade on.

a reply to: Daedalus

Oh I have absolutely no illusions on that fact.
I know what I am doing is an exercise in futility.
But it is not really to him I speak.

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: darkbake

So after watching that video, what do you think? Is Gamergate a legitimate group of people with a legitimate viewpoint that video games should be left alone? Are a few crazy people making a bad name for the movement? Or is the movement a bunch of backwards thugs?

This isn't even their viewpoint...my god man, did you do ANY research, before making this thread?

I did research before writing this thread, but most of the places I went failed to mention that Gamergate was about journalistic integrity and painted them as being a misogynist group. The trail I followed was through the feminist blogsphere, though, so I can see how they wouldn't mention that.

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: boohoo

I read your post. It was bollocks.

You misunderstand the situation, the players, the agenda, and pretty much everything else about this...

It seems you didn't understand my overall point at all. I do see now how this is a hopeless situation. Gamers can feel free wallow in this failure, once they realize a few years from now they already lost. If you and the others can't understand the strategy I laid out, the feminist have already beaten you. The "end game" has already arrived, just submit to the defeat and be done with it. If you think all the minutia you guys have been discussing somehow trumps my main point, there is really nowhere left for you to go but back in to the basement to play games.

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: darkbake

So after watching that video, what do you think? Is Gamergate a legitimate group of people with a legitimate viewpoint that video games should be left alone? Are a few crazy people making a bad name for the movement? Or is the movement a bunch of backwards thugs?

This isn't even their viewpoint...my god man, did you do ANY research, before making this thread?

I did research before writing this thread, but most of the places I went failed to mention that Gamergate was about journalistic integrity and painted them as being a misogynist group. The trail I followed was through the feminist blogsphere, though, so I can see how they wouldn't mention that.

And that's fair, it happens. Hopefully we've managed to show you how non-boogeymanish GG actually is for the most part.

originally posted by: Awolscout

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: darkbake

So after watching that video, what do you think? Is Gamergate a legitimate group of people with a legitimate viewpoint that video games should be left alone? Are a few crazy people making a bad name for the movement? Or is the movement a bunch of backwards thugs?

This isn't even their viewpoint...my god man, did you do ANY research, before making this thread?

I did research before writing this thread, but most of the places I went failed to mention that Gamergate was about journalistic integrity and painted them as being a misogynist group. The trail I followed was through the feminist blogsphere, though, so I can see how they wouldn't mention that.

And that's fair, it happens. Hopefully we've managed to show you how non-boogeymanish GG actually is for the most part.

I'm still not seeing it. Why not a different hashtag? Why not move on to actual ethics in gaming?

a reply to: darkbake

Seems to me "research" would constitute seeking out both sides of the story.
Which you admit you did not in any sense do.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Awolscout

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: darkbake

So after watching that video, what do you think? Is Gamergate a legitimate group of people with a legitimate viewpoint that video games should be left alone? Are a few crazy people making a bad name for the movement? Or is the movement a bunch of backwards thugs?

This isn't even their viewpoint...my god man, did you do ANY research, before making this thread?

I did research before writing this thread, but most of the places I went failed to mention that Gamergate was about journalistic integrity and painted them as being a misogynist group. The trail I followed was through the feminist blogsphere, though, so I can see how they wouldn't mention that.

And that's fair, it happens. Hopefully we've managed to show you how non-boogeymanish GG actually is for the most part.

I'm still not seeing it. Why not a different hashtag? Why not move on to actual ethics in gaming?

You have your own flawed viewpoints and clearly only want to see the reality as something it's not. I feel as though all you want from this entire thread is to rile and offend to get someone to chomp at your very poor baits except no one really has which really has done nothing what so ever except to highlight how flawed and wrong the aGGs are as a whole about GG, your average GGer and what the movement is about as a whole.

So thank you for helping prove the point of several posters as a whole: that GG is all about inclusivity and discussion in a level headed fashion. If you don't want to see it for what it is then there's really no point in continuing a stagnant discourse.

Have a pleasant day.

originally posted by: Awolscout

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Awolscout

originally posted by: darkbake

originally posted by: Daedalus

originally posted by: darkbake

So after watching that video, what do you think? Is Gamergate a legitimate group of people with a legitimate viewpoint that video games should be left alone? Are a few crazy people making a bad name for the movement? Or is the movement a bunch of backwards thugs?

This isn't even their viewpoint...my god man, did you do ANY research, before making this thread?

I did research before writing this thread, but most of the places I went failed to mention that Gamergate was about journalistic integrity and painted them as being a misogynist group. The trail I followed was through the feminist blogsphere, though, so I can see how they wouldn't mention that.

And that's fair, it happens. Hopefully we've managed to show you how non-boogeymanish GG actually is for the most part.

I'm still not seeing it. Why not a different hashtag? Why not move on to actual ethics in gaming?

You have your own flawed viewpoints and clearly only want to see the reality as something it's not. I feel as though all you want from this entire thread is to rile and offend to get someone to chomp at your very poor baits except no one really has which really has done nothing what so ever except to highlight how flawed and wrong the aGGs are as a whole about GG, your average GGer and what the movement is about as a whole.

So thank you for helping prove the point of several posters as a whole: that GG is all about inclusivity and discussion in a level headed fashion. If you don't want to see it for what it is then there's really no point in continuing a stagnant discourse.

Have a pleasant day.

Not really baiting, I laid out my questions in an above post and why I thought gamergate was flawed from the beginning because a. it didn't start out as a movement about ethics in gaming or journalism. It was a guy who's girlfriend cheated on him and then the internet jumped on. The trolls were the first ones, almost as soon as Quinn's ex boyfriend posted his side of the story. and B. Gamergate was the hashtag of Adam Baldwin, who was just trying to jump on a bandwagon to get noticed again. Again it was almost immeditely jumped on by the trolls.

I get that you and others who seem genuinly concerned about ethics in gaming and journalism jumped on too. It would make sense. But now why hang on, when you know the truth? Why not a new hashtag like #ethicsingaming that doesn't focus on feminism in games or stronger female characters or pushing to de-sexify games etc. Leave all that out. There will always be women that want to influence the gaming community that way and just like in any other facet of life and what happens thousands of times a day, sometimes someone sleeps with someone else to get ahead. But it's usually not a big deal. Gamergate basically made a celebrity of Brianna Wu. Gamergate did that. Good or bad.

So isn't it time to move on?

I'm laying it out. no bait simple views from research and simple questions. Should be easy to get to the bottom of this topic of we all decide to simplify our view points.

You're up? I mean...the bait is set. LOL

Well, thank you for this.....this, i can actually reply to. I'm somewhat disappointed that you didn't actually quote the points you were replying to, as it makes it a bit harder to have an honest discussion....mainly because I'll hafta go back, and see if you're replying to something i ACTUALLY said, or something you THINK i said...I'll make due though..

originally posted by: amazing
Look I don't have the time, I work and don't spend all day harassing women in the gaming industry, like your gamergate buddies.

Was that really necessary? I mean, starting off with baseless accusations, and attacks isn't exactly the best way to begin a conversation.

So, let’s go back a little bit. This will ramble but I’m tired.

Alright, fair enough.

What’s really going on here? I have used some hyperbole, especially the use of the word terrorist, but the definition of terrorist is---a person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims—now that definition can also be used for religions aims or philosophical aims like in this case… cyber bullying and rape and death threats come pretty close to that definition of terrorism. Yes?

Not exactly....

You left out the important bit, which is the definition of terrorism, which is the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes. OR The state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization....with terrorization being defined as "to fill or overcome with terror", "to dominate or coerce by intimidation", or "to produce widespread fear by acts of violence, as bombings"

People sending scary tweets, hardly constitutes terrorism. There is, perhaps, an argument to be made with regards to doxxing, which is never an alright thing to do, but still....the question must be asked "how much of the doxxing is genuine?". I hate to bring her up again, because she is completely irrelevant, but when Zoe Quinn claimed she'd been doxxed and harassed by wizardchan, the alleged doxx was found to be completely inauthentic. In other words; completely fake. This would very obviously mean that she wasn't receiving the harassing phone calls that she claimed she was. All it takes is one example of someone faking having been doxxed, to call all subsequent instances into question.

Additionally, I don't really see where GamerGate is about politics...i mean, yes, the SJW's that have latched onto the issue, have injected gender politics into the mix, but again, this is an effect of all these other groups taking advantage of the situation, to push their agendas. It's another example of "never let a good crisis go to waste"

I submit that you've used more than "some" hyperbole...the constant comparison to the KKK was completely inaccurate, and uncalled for. And then there was the mentions of Nazis, and terrorism, and i think you might have even reused the "worse than ISIS" talking point...

Gamergate was a hashtag created by Adam Baldwin, but really who is this guy and why should anyone care? I do get that you and other gamers uniting under the banner of gamer gate feel that it is about ethics in journalism, but it’s such a huge, ambiguous movement filled with the worst kind of internet trolls and violent people. Gamergate has been taken over by a horrible mob of women haters, mens rights guys and everything else thats bad on the internet.

Again, this is nothing but opinion, asserted as fact, with absolutely NOTHING to substantiate it. Can you point me to an instance of this kind of behavior having been carried out under the GG banner?

And once again, you COMPLETELY overlook the fact that GG started with Baldwin's tweet, that linked to videos about.....wait for it....journalistic impropriety, and ethical breaches. This is how GG started, with the questions about the journalism...everything that came before, in the "quinnspiracy" became irrelevant at that point.

What is Gamergate? It’s a culture war(meaning do women have the right to push for games they want and voice their opinions online without the threat of harm and without dozens of hateful posts after they do voice their opinions) that, to me, seems to be about female game makers, reviewers and critics and journalists and bloggers--against an onslaught of negative people, misogynists, anti-feminists, internet trolls and then people like you who appear not to be like that, but still defend gamergate to the end. You're in with a bad crowd.

And once again, opinion, stated as fact, with no supporting material. I don't know where you're getting your information, but i suspect it's biased, and only tells one side of the story..

Women have been voicing their opinions for years, women have been influencing game production for years, either through suggestion, or through making the damn things themselves.....this was NEVER a problem. Women have been REVIEWING games for years, and women have been writing, about games for years...this was NEVER a problem. These are real people, and yes, they have received criticism.....but guess what? They were receiving the same criticisms BEFORE GG. Now, i will admit, that some of the more outspoken people are probably catching MORE flak now, than before, but that's to be expected when the trolls smell blood...

What’s so important about this chaotic movement to you and is there really any good that can come of it? I keep thinking no. Really with all the negativity around it, how can gamergate get to anything good. That should be the one question.

It's not terribly chaotic at all....it's just painted that way by a biased media. And actually, a LOT of good has come from it already. A LOT of journalistic corruption has been exposed, games press sites have been forced to either revise, or create ethics policies, in the wake of this, GG has raised a ton of money for various charities, including one to help women get into the games industry, and an anti-bullying charity. GG has also gone after the funding of sites that engage in this kind of corruption, and who actively attack their audience. I mean, look at Gawker...

Sam Biddle Tweeted: "Ultimately #GamerGate is reaffirming what we've known to be true for decades: nerds should be constantly shamed and degraded into submission", "Bring Back Bullying", and "Max just told me i'm getting a raise because i made gamers cry". After this, there was a letter writing campaign by GG to all of it's corporate sponsors, letting them know that Gawker was promoting bullying...it cost them over a million dollars in ad revenue. Additionally, in the wake of these disgusting tweets, GG also engaged in a campaign to raise money for an anti-bullying charity.

But yeah, they're all terrorist pieces of s**t, right?



cont. in next post

cont. from last

a reply to: amazing

You could say that Feminists have been HiJacked by feminazis and the likes of Femon and PRiot, but I see value in what they are doing and no woman has ever negatively affected my life. No feminist can. I’m to well adjusted and comfortable in my own skin. Too mature. But, why do, we on this thread, bring in other movements. I mention it only for one point. You may say that feminism had a good point at first for women’s rights was taken over by radicals. But you cannot say the same about gamergate. It wasn’t started by guys that wanted ethics in gaming journalism it was….started by a jilted lover and a B actor

OK, so let me see if I've got this about right...

GG is evil because, according to you, it's about nothing but hating women, and wanting to oppress them....but the extremists in third-wave feminism, are all about hating men, and wanting to oppress them, and that's ok?

I mean, holy s**t....cognitive dissonance, and double standard...really man, what the hell?

And again, you wrongly assert, as fact, how you believe GG started, despite evidence to the contrary. I'll say again, i think you've been lied to, fed false information, and just refuse to look at both sides...

And it started with Zoe Quinn with her game Depression Quest. Then one of Quinn’s ex boy friends or her only ex boyfriend..he…spewed a bunch of online whining about her cheating on him with several people in the gaming industry…his take was that she was trying to get ahead in her career, very unethically. One guy upset that his girlfriend cheated on him. That’s the issue. And then some B-list actor with a hashtag and all the retards rejoiced because it had the word gate at the end and mob mentality broke out. But is there any proof that this actually happened?

The fact that you actually ask that question tells me you don't actually know ANYTHING about the situation, and that you absolutely have not done your homework, and are content to just believe whatever the media tells you to.

Why are you even bothering to weigh in on this subject, if you can't even be bothered to know what you're talking about?

GG is nothing to do with Quinn cheating on Gjoni...it's everything to do with who Nathan Grayson, and the others are...

Yes, initially, during the "quinnspiracy", the allegation was made that she was trying to "sleep her way to the top", and "bang journos for positive reviews"...once GG started, and real research began, most of this was found to be inaccurate. it was found that it wasn't a matter of her sleeping with Grayson, in exchange for a positive review, because HE NEVER REVIEWED THE GAME...it was a matter of they were very close friends, and he was writing about her, positively, in a professional capacity, and promoting her game...that's not ok...

GG looked more into Grayson, and found other instances of things like this...they've also looked into quite a few game journos, both male, and female, AND looked into industry "celebrities", like Phil Fish, for example, and they've looked into allegations of rigging and other impropriety in game awards, and other related things....

Without any proof or anything, Quinn was already getting harassing tweets and social media posts, I mean like right after this guy put it out there online. Being on ATS you know that anyone can say anything.

Indeed, I am well aware of this....people can, and do, say all manner of things...

But again, you're glossing over the fact that "quinnspiracy", and "GamerGate" are two different things..you're conflating the two, to give your argument legs...

It’s all out there to see.

Yes, it is. Sadly, you only appear to be seeing half of it...and even sadder, is that you seem to be completely alright with that.. How can you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Anonymous people have posted Quinn’s personal address and nude pics of her shortly after her exs online posts.

Well, some of the pics were shopped....doesn't make it ok, but seriously, if you go out on the internet, you can find shopped pics of Kate Mulgrew, and Margret Thatcher, lol. This is nothing new.. Apparently, Quinn tried her hand at being a pornographic model, and the pictures apparently weren't hard to find.

As to the doxx, The first one was faked...I've heard rumors of a second doxxing, but again, since the first one was fake, is this one fake too? Does it even exist, or is it just a matter of "it's true because Zoe said it is"?

She has been forced out of her house with death and rape threats. These are known and not fake or fabricated threats, in my opinion...

Have you seen any of these threats? do you have proof that she was actually forced from her home? I mean, at least now, you're properly classifying your assertions as opinion, and not outright fact....so i guess i hafta give you credit for that...Even a small step in the right direction, is still a step in the right direction..

you could say that Brianna Wu, jumped on the bandwagon, but what topic doesn't have someone like that?

She absolutely jumped on the bandwagon...she knew goddamn well, she'd be targeted. She purposely antagonized people, and then had the gall to act surprised when stupid people started saying nasty things to her. You're right though, most topics have someone like that...but honestly, there's been more than just Wu...and what's sad is that, with the help of the gaming press, who completely benefits from it, by the way, a narrative has been manufactured, that makes this entire thing about them..

What ever happened to the male journalist that she had an affair with? Any rape or death threats to him? It would seem that he should be the bigger problem if any of these allegations were true? Why is there no gamergate rampage for Nathan Grayson?

Which allegations are you talking about? additionally, Nathan Grayson has been seriously scrutinized, a lot of questionable relationships, and practices have been discovered...



cont. in next post

cont. from last

a reply to: amazing

Why, then was Anita Sarkeesian targeted next after posting an ongoing video series she has about women and gaming? She also had credible threats against her and was forced to leave her home because of them and cancel speaking engagements. She should be a totally different topic altogether. Why she even involved in gamergate? What about the harassment of Jenn Frank and Mattie Brice? Why are they involved? WWhy not ignore Brianna Wu?

Anita Sarkeesian has been catching flak for her idiotic series for a long time....WAY before there was a "GamerGate"...she's been saying stupid things for years. The only thing that's changed, is that now, because of GamerGate, she's able to say "oh, look they're attacking me", and blame it on GG, even though they had nothing to do with it...the USU appearance she canceled, was because of a threatening letter, that actually never mentioned GG, or gaming....he was saying how much he hated her because she's a radical feminist.. AND, the police even said that it wasn't a credible threat....she canceled for the publicity..for the continuation of the victim narrative.

Jenn Frank was a game journalist. She came under fire because of idiotic articles that she's written both before, and during GG, that contributed to the false narrative that GG is about persecuting women in the industry. She's also involved, because of suspected ties to Silverstring Media, a group that keeps coming up throughout this whole thing...

Mattie Brice was a game critic, and was an IGF judge...she came under fire for tweeting things like: "kill all men #ThreeWordsSheWantsToHear", "Death to gamer(s)", and, while an IGF judge: "judging IGF games now, and automatically rating low any games with men in them, loving all this power". Are you REALLY surprised that people might take umbrage with statements like this?

In any event, Frank and Brice were involved with the industry, so it's no surprise that they're part of the conversation...you don't seem to know who any of these people are, or what they do, or why they're part of the conversation. I would urge you to educate yourself, if you want to seriously participate in this conversation...

My biggest argument is that whatever the message evolved into about ethics in journalism it has morphed far beyond that and been hijacked by the Mob of trolls and lunatics.

Again, there's no proof that this kind of behavior is being carried out under the GG banner...it's being ASSUMED, and you seem to be completely ok with this..

As per my theory, I think that what we're seeing is trolls doing what trolls do.....that's purposely pushing both side's buttons, and depending on the media, to spin things in the most sensational way possible.....and this is being done for their own amusement.

You of course could say the same thing about any movement, like someone did for feminism, but that’s not quite accurate and how does bringing in another movement help us in this discussion. It doesn’t. Let’s keep this to gamergate, which of course had at it’s genesis nothing but a jilted lover. And furthermore where is all the gamergaters, telling the mob of trolls and lunatics to leave Quinn, Wu and Sarkessian alone? Where is that voice? And let's keep in mind that anyone criticizing the gamergate movement has come under harsh criticism. Mostly for no good reason.

-sigh- Again, you appear to know absolutely NOTHING about any of this....

People hanging out in spaces frequented by GG participants, who talk all that stupid s**t about harassing people, and whatnot, get shouted down, and reported....GG polices itself.

People who criticise GG come under fire by actual GG participants, because they're purposely mischaracterising GG, and libeling/slandering an entire cultural demographic, and perpetuating a manufactured narrative...and, of course, trolls attack them because that's what trolls do..and because they KNOW that despite any actual proof, it will be blamed on GG, thus intensifying, and prolonging the conflict.

The only one bringing "other movements" into it, are the SJW morons, who are injecting gender politics, into the mix, and making it about female oppression...they're the ones spewing the most hate..

Will you say it? Will you say that any harrasment of a female by a gamergater is horrible and needs to stop? I mean any harassment at all. We don't handle ourselves this way in the modern world. Or is a rape threat okay with someone you philosophically disagree with?

The harassment of ANYONE by ANYONE is unacceptable....this goes for both sides, this goes for the trolls who are just pouring petrol on the fire "for the lulz", this goes for the media, who lie to people about the subject...it goes for everyone.

Rape threats are NEVER ok...what the f**k kind of stupid question is that?

Call them out right here and now.

There's no need, as I've NEVER defended this kind of behavior..

How about this
medium.com...@andreaszecher/open-letter-to-the-gaming-community-df4511032e8a

an open letter to the gaming industry by Andreas Zecher of Spaces of Play-which by the way Zoe Quinn signed.

What about it?

GG isn't about any form of bigotry....that's just the narrative that the SJW's manufactured...the gaming press perpetuated this, because it took the spotlight off of their wrongdoings, and allowed them to say "of course there's no problem with us. These people are just conspiracy theorists, and bigots. It's all about hating women, gay people, and minorities...pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

People of all genders, colors, ethnicities, sexual preference, and people with disabilities have been playing, and making video games for friggin EVER....GG isn't about this, and never was...

Anyone can do some google searching and see how horrible these online trolls are.

Indeed. But again, the trolls aren't GG...you're conflating the two, to give your argument legs..

Just mention gamergate and everyone gets bent out of shape.

Can't imagine why....could it be the fact that the media has pushed this manufactured narrative, that makes gamers out to be the worst s**t since Satan? naw....couldn't be..

Could it be misinformed, low-information parrots like you, who keep repeating their BS? Naah.....can't be that..

But in the end, does Brianna Wu, really matter?

Nope. And when people stop giving her the attention, and sympathy money, she'll stop coming up..

Why can’t Sarkessian post her videos…What’s wrong with her point of view.

Nobody said she can't post her videos...i think what you have a problem with is people criticising her wrong-minded views, baseless assertions, poorly researched presentations, and opinions asserted as fact.

A bad argument is a bad argument, regardless of the gender or color of the person making it. It's not because she's a woman, it's because what she's saying is stupid, and untrue.



cont. in next post

cont from last

a reply to: amazing

Who cares if Zoe Quinn had sex with someone in the gaming industry? She’s one person.

I don't care that she has sex with people....that's a thing that happens. When she's in a relationship with a games journo though, and that journo is writing about her, THAT'S a problem. If you can't understand the concept of a "conflict of interest", that's nobody's problem but your own.

Gamergate is a hot mess and you need to get as far away from it as possible.

In your poorly-informed opinion, which i am disinclined to treat with any regard.

Associating with violent lunatics is never good.

I suppose it's a good thing that i'm not associating with violent lunatics then, isn't it?

I don’t have the time to write a complete research paper and go back and forth with you on every single point.

Then don't. Do us BOTH a favor, and take the time you would have used to write up long posts like this, and use it to do some ACTUAL research. Hell, i can help you with that. I don't want to lie to you, I don't want to propagandize or indoctrinate you....I just want to be sure that you've seen BOTH sides of this thing, and that you're not working solely off of information from EITHER side....equity in information.

But I’ve laid it out. I read a lot, I put a lot of thought into the things I don’t like and my little causes.

And i'll say again, it looks as if you've only been reading from biased sources, so you've not gotten the full story....which kinda makes every conclusion you've drawn, completely worthless...

Gamegate is really about hate for women.

No, it's not.

No good can come out of it now.

Plenty of good has already come from it, and good will continue to come from it...

It was never hijacked...

No, GG itself wasn't hijacked, it's still about ethics and corruption in games journalism....GG's IMAGE, however...that's been COMPLETELY hijacked by trolls, and SJW's..

it started out as a guy who didn’t know how to keep is girlfriend happy and then whined about it all over the internet and then she got doxed by the internet.

No, i'm sorry, you're misinformed....repeating the same bad information over and over, doesn't make it any more true, or any less inaccurate..

And then everyone that has any critique of gamergate…far less vitriolic than me, get’s dozens of hateful posts or tweets if not hundreds of hateful posts and tweets.

vitriolic or not, if you're parroting Anti-GG talking points, and mischaracterizing GG, people are going to correct you....not all of them are as polite about it as i am, but the reaction is still inevitable.

I live in America and it’s okay to have freedom of speech and an opinion on anything I want. Everyone has that right. A movement that is characterized by rape and death threats is not okay. Death to gamergate. I said it right there.

It's only characterized by those things, because of the manufactured narrative pushed by the "social justice" movement, the games press, and the MSM, and people like you, who believe it.

Death to lies, disinformation, and wholesale defamation of an entire cultural demographic. How about this?

Create a new hashtag. I'll help.

#ethicsingaming

Go now and create the world in gaming you really want to see.

I don't use Twitter...i despise "social media", so i won't be creating anything....

And really, why should "we" hafta create a new "hashtag"?...why should "we" hafta create a new banner to unite under? Because the media, and SJWs sullied the current one? What's to keep them from doing it again?

originally posted by: HarbingerOfShadows

Ehhh Thompson and Sark are wrong for very different reasons and comparing them to each other is a disservice to them as well as people with a level head.

Thompson was just plain old "get off my lawn"

Sark is " tell me what to do Mcintosh senpai" and would possibly, though unlikely have legitimate things to contribute without his puppetry.

a reply to: Awolscout

not sure about all that...i think the comparison is fair, and accurate. their arguments are very similar. However, the way in which they're presented is very different...

i also don't believe that Sarkeesian is a FullMcIntosh puppet, as he only CO-Writes the series with her. she's been saying similarly stupid stuff for a long time...

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: Awolscout

not sure about all that...i think the comparison is fair, and accurate. their arguments are very similar. However, the way in which they're presented is very different...

i also don't believe that Sarkeesian is a FullMcIntosh puppet, as he only CO-Writes the series with her. she's been saying similarly stupid stuff for a long time...

I don't think that there are enough similarities in goals and methods to draw the comparison personally, as well as Sark has actually made ground and even though I cant stand her I think its disrepectful to her intelligence to compare to Thompson. Thats just me though.

As far as Sark being a puppet. I think that she has her own goals and mindset when it comes to FF but The co-writer factor to me is an unproven claim where in everything she says unless it's an interview matches far closer with Mc's writing/speaking style than anything that shes uttered in an unscripted setting.

a reply to: Daedalus

And both of them has been proven wrong.

The first long-term study has been completed on the link between the consumption of violent media and real-life violent acts, and has found... there is none. In fact, the only possible trend that cropped up over the last century was that an increased consumption of violent video games correlated to a decrease in youth violence.

www.sciencealert.com...

Yet Sarkeesian continues to be listened to.

a reply to: Awolscout

Their over all message is the same however.