Jesus murdered Judas?

a reply to: Seede

That is a good thought but wouldn't that have been unlawful to Jewish custom? Not sure if that covers all of the dead or simply those who die upon a tree. I assume that some have died a natural death on Sabbath but don't know the procedure in that case.

They would have been "ritually unclean" to be able to participate in the feast of Passover. They would have waited until Passover (Friday) was over and the next day would have been the weekly Sabbath (Saturday), so the next possible day to touch any "unclean" thing would have been the Sunday at dawn.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Ah, I see you have learnt a new term. Arbitrary conjecture.

Oh no, that comes from Logic courses while I was in school. More than 15 years ago. And in debate class, you get no points for arbitrary information, they are irrelevant. Nothing "new" about it, it's 101 level Logic and debate.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I know quite well what it is. I just fail to see how your remarks were relevant, I still fail to see that to be honest....

The main ruling principle in the interpretation of the law of Moses in the time of Jesus seems to have been "An eye for an eye", not "Turn the other cheek". If the accusation against Jesus was indeed the subject of this thread, the choice of execution by crucifixion would sort of ring sense, and may I remind you all, he may of course have been innocent of this here highly theorised approach at figuring out why Jesus was executed in the first place, which would make this issue extremely important to figure out of.

Look at the story of what happened that day when the lord snapped and shined so bright he burnt out before nightfall and crashed to ground zero with only a handful still on his side, armed and watchful, resisting arrest, he most certainly wasn't arrested and executed by the Romans for blasphemy. If the accusation was conspiracy to murder, however....

And maybe it was Judas who demonstrated the greatest love through living out Jesus' words in John 15:13 saying «Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends» [ESV] -- For as the story goes, Judas killed himself before the dead body «burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out», thus he might have relieved Jesus of the murder charges by taking care of the murdering himself himself. However, there was no CSI back then, so nobody knows. The texts do open up for the possibility though, and by doing so the sincerity of certain Christians is tested and revealed, for they seem to operate with one law and system of justice reserved for Jesus and themselves which is in all essence an imaginary carte blanche and the right to spew pre-medieval tribal ethics involving human sacrifice and absolution and occultation for all sins left and right regardlessly-- and then there is the law they direct against their critics, which in all essence is a petty and unscholarly interpretation of the Mosaic law that neither themselves nor anybody else for that matter would be able to live by.

The Son of Jesus AKA the Word of God is called «Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war». [ESV] Revelation 19:11

I'm not a Christian, but I have a lot of time and respect for Jesus Christ & his teachings...

This theory would mean that Jesus essentially turned his back on all his own teachings but still allowed himself to be captured and crucified (though not killed).

Plus, most accounts have Judas as dead via suicide (hanging) or that Judas was the actual one who was crucified.

originally posted by: Collateral
I'm not a Christian, but I have a lot of time and respect for Jesus Christ & his teachings...

I second that

This theory would mean that Jesus essentially turned his back on all his own teachings but still allowed himself to be captured and crucified (though not killed).

Like I said, I believe Jesus hit rock bottom, the fame and all the expectations connected to him simply became too much and he burned out completely perhaps even poisoning ("letting Satan into") his best mate in the process, as if putting himself in the position to decide who should live and who should die. Only after having served his flesh out as bread and his blood as wine, which has had the most peculiar effect that everyone lit. wants a piece of him even to this day, 2000 years after the fact. I mean, don't these Christians at least sometimes feel like zombies or cannibals?

Plus, most accounts have Judas as dead via suicide (hanging) or that Judas was the actual one who was crucified.

I refer to the biblical accounts, where Judas is described as hanging himself, and apparently he later bursts open. The same thing (except the hanging part) later happens to Arius «Pope of Alexandria» and a few others during the controvercies leading up to the Nicea council.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: Collateral

Utnapisjtim: I refer to the biblical accounts, where Judas is described as hanging himself, and apparently he later bursts open. The same thing (except the hanging part) later happens to Arius «Pope of Alexandria» and a few others during the controvercies leading up to the Nicea council.

So, the Nicea council then comes to the conclusion: "no bodies are to burst open during decomposition". This process happens fairly quickly (bodily gases have to escape). The ghastly results occure within 36-48 hours (much earlier if the air conditioning was turned off). Did not know that it was Judas that was crucified instead of Jesus. Did Jesus hang himself?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: NOTurTypical

I know quite well what it is. I just fail to see how your remarks were relevant, I still fail to see that to be honest....

I can explain it to you, I have no capacity to understand it for you. I just can't do that. Anytime a person presents an arbitrary conjecture as the premise for an argument it should be called out and not responded to. That's logic 101.. and logic doesn't change simply because the internet isn't a magical universe where the laws of logic are suspended. Sooo.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Don't mind if you do. I'd love that.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Don't mind if you do. I'd love that.

Stuffed air nonsense response.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

a reply to: SlapMonkey




What I find highly amusing to critics of posts like these is that they try to rationalise how or why it couldn't happen, yet readily accept that Jesus turned water into wine, or raised Lazarus from the dead, divided a small amount of fish and bread to feed thousands.


Because OP's or theories like this are purely arbitrary conjecture. The account in the Bible are not,

Oh the irony.
And yet Christians refuse to look at the "transformation" of Saul to Paul, the Usurpur who hijacked Jesus message, to form a movement acceptable to Rome. Later with the States blessing ( and at the threat of the sword ) codified through Ecumenical Councils


danizier.wordpress.com...

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Keep up the good work. Its not easy unraveling 1500 years of deception, kept tightly in check by those who would enslave humanity for their own temporal gains. The christian (Pauline based) apologists would keep mans soul enslaved till eternity.
Thank the gods we live in an information based society. Not one where the dogma is spoken and enforced by a central "pope" "bishop" or to all intents and purposes a temporal "god" sharing power with monarchy over humanities fate.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

is a woman, and both her and Jesus, and even Judas, carry their tunics like Roman elites:

Jesus came to claim his earthly Kingship. To fulfill the role of Messiah. Thats why it took a cohort of Roman soldiers to arrest him. I mean they were armed as evidenced at the garden of Gethsemane when Peter attacked the roman soldier.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Hell, verbs alone must meet 5 different conditions to even be used in a sentence

Speaking of hell, where exactly does Jesus ascribe to the Pauline doctrine of everlasting hell?

a reply to: DeadSeraph

I really wish people would quit attempting to rewrite history

So in your accurate history an Epistle of Saul-oops St Paul now becomes a gospel. Who would have figured. But I guess in your haste to attack it slipped by you.


All Roads Lead To Rome
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: SlapMonkey

(a single collection of books put together nearly 2000 years ago and translated many times since)

But even the Bible wasnt as you know it till much much later.

en.wikipedia.org...

English

The Lollard Bible was the first comprehensive English translation, produced late in the 14th century. It is associated with the movement of John Wycliffe, whose adherents were nicknamed Lollards "and were treated by the Church as heretics. John Wycliffe (c. 1328–1384) was himself responsible, though not necessarily as a translator, for the earlier version made from the Latin."[37]

William Tyndale is credited with producing the first translation of the Pentateuch into English, directly from the Hebrew and Greek.[38]

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
In the famous motif below, the last supper scene, Peter, while holding a knife behind his back, asks Mary Magdalen AKA «the disciple whom Jesus loved» to ask Jesus who it is who will betray him. The story behind the picture is found in John 13.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.”

“It is he to whom I will give this morsel of bread when I have dipped it.”

Now what exactly did Jesus dip his morsel into before giving it to Judas? I’ll explain by another word of Jesus: “Watch and beware of the leaven”

I believe Jesus dipped the bread in either A: Baking soda, or, B: Leaven, which explains why Jesus straight away orders Judas to do what he knows he has to do, and to do so quickly. I believe that something he urged Judas to do, was one out of two things:

A: If baking soda: Drink hydrated active carbon. Why? If Jesus dipped the bread in baking soda, the sodium bicarbonate would react with the acid in the stomach and start producing CO2, this is potentially life threatening. Baking soda was used in ancient Egypt and extracted from naturally mined natron, and active carbon was known and used by the Egyptians as early as 1500 BC.

B: If yeast: Drink vast amounts of liqueur. Why? If Jesus gave Judas a piece of sourdough or dipped unleavened bread into hydrated yeast large amounts of liqueur could cancel out the fermenting process, if you are quick and lucky enough to have liqueur. This is also a potentially lethal prank.

Unless he’d do so, worst case scenario would be to suffer a terrible death, and eventually, literally «burst asunder in the midst» to quote scripture. But as the story goes, only after he’d hanged himself, probably due to terrible pains and no hope in sight. I believe that when Judas realised what Jesus had done to him, he probably first tried to cure himself, but at some point he must have understood that he was unable to do so, and then summoned a Roman magistrate and had Jesus arrested.

Another person also ended his life in this exact same manner. Arius, presbyter in Alexandria, who said that «Jesus is more than man, but less than God, who existed before the Son» and was the primus motor of the «Arian controversy». Around the time of Nicea one Athanasius writes to one Serapion concerning the death of Arius:

While Eusebius and his fellows threatened, the Bishop prayed; but Arius, who had great confidence in Eusebius and his fellows, and talked very wildly, urged by the necessities of nature withdrew, and suddenly, in the language of Scripture, ‘falling headlong he burst asunder in the midst,’ and immediately expired as he lay, and was deprived both of communion and of his life together.

Source: Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Ser. II, Vol. IV: Athanasius: Select Works and Letters, full text at sacred-texts.com

I does sort of make sense...

What the heck does all that have to do with the OP title? The egotistical prideful generation love to manipulate the mind of other humans, such a wicked defilement of a generation. In this day, a man can not be holy if he doesn't have no part in this generation. The true apostles kept their books secret, for the reason that wicked hypocrites who use deceit and manipulation to defile to God.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Keep up the good work. Its not easy unraveling 1500 years of deception, kept tightly in check by those who would enslave humanity for their own temporal gains. The christian (Pauline based) apologists would keep mans soul enslaved till eternity.
Thank the gods we live in an information based society. Not one where the dogma is spoken and enforced by a central "pope" "bishop" or to all intents and purposes a temporal "god" sharing power with monarchy over humanities fate.

HEY, speak for yourself.