Jesus murdered Judas?

In the famous motif below, the last supper scene, Peter, while holding a knife behind his back, asks Mary Magdalen AKA «the disciple whom Jesus loved» to ask Jesus who it is who will betray him. The story behind the picture is found in John 13.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.”

“It is he to whom I will give this morsel of bread when I have dipped it.”

Now what exactly did Jesus dip his morsel into before giving it to Judas? I’ll explain by another word of Jesus: “Watch and beware of the leaven”

I believe Jesus dipped the bread in either A: Baking soda, or, B: Leaven, which explains why Jesus straight away orders Judas to do what he knows he has to do, and to do so quickly. I believe that something he urged Judas to do, was one out of two things:

A: If baking soda: Drink hydrated active carbon. Why? If Jesus dipped the bread in baking soda, the sodium bicarbonate would react with the acid in the stomach and start producing CO2, this is potentially life threatening. Baking soda was used in ancient Egypt and extracted from naturally mined natron, and active carbon was known and used by the Egyptians as early as 1500 BC.

B: If yeast: Drink vast amounts of liqueur. Why? If Jesus gave Judas a piece of sourdough or dipped unleavened bread into hydrated yeast large amounts of liqueur could cancel out the fermenting process, if you are quick and lucky enough to have liqueur. This is also a potentially lethal prank.

Unless he’d do so, worst case scenario would be to suffer a terrible death, and eventually, literally «burst asunder in the midst» to quote scripture. But as the story goes, only after he’d hanged himself, probably due to terrible pains and no hope in sight. I believe that when Judas realised what Jesus had done to him, he probably first tried to cure himself, but at some point he must have understood that he was unable to do so, and then summoned a Roman magistrate and had Jesus arrested.

Another person also ended his life in this exact same manner. Arius, presbyter in Alexandria, who said that «Jesus is more than man, but less than God, who existed before the Son» and was the primus motor of the «Arian controversy». Around the time of Nicea one Athanasius writes to one Serapion concerning the death of Arius:

While Eusebius and his fellows threatened, the Bishop prayed; but Arius, who had great confidence in Eusebius and his fellows, and talked very wildly, urged by the necessities of nature withdrew, and suddenly, in the language of Scripture, ‘falling headlong he burst asunder in the midst,’ and immediately expired as he lay, and was deprived both of communion and of his life together.

Source: Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Ser. II, Vol. IV: Athanasius: Select Works and Letters, full text at sacred-texts.com

I does sort of make sense...

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Don't you ever get tired of these threads?

What is it you have against the God of the Christians, specifically? You can never seem to nail it down. One day it's Paul claiming Jesus is Satan, the next it's Jesus murdering Judas. You are one of the most pathetic assassins of the truth I have ever seen.

You literally have nothing to say.

Keep it up, champ.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

I would rather believe that Jesus was married and had a family than this sort of crap.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Stay tuned. I'm sure he has a thread lined up for next week about that very scenario.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Yeah but at least the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail despite it being hoax was far more believable than saying Jesus is Satan.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

and original.

The OP however, He's just desperate. Every other week it's "Jesus is Satan" or some other ridiculous crap. I mean really... In what $&!#ing world did Jesus MURDER judas? Find me one text.

This guy can find a way though! Hell, This guy can find #ing space aliens in rocks on mars the same way he can find his justifications in the bible...

Baking Soda is Sodium Bicarbonate. It is used to effervesce and 'raise' baked products, making them fluffier and lighter (hence, the name).

To cause a stomach rupture you'd need far more of it than would adhere to the outside of a piece of unleavened bread.

I have drunk water with 1/2 a teaspoon of Baking Soda in it, to remedy indigestion. I have done this a number of times. No explosion or rupture occurred.

I imagine that unleavened bread coated in powdered Baking Soda would also be near impossible to eat due to it being really dry, unpleasant tasting and effervescing in the mouth.

Similarly, Yeast would be mostly digested before it produced enough gas to be a problem.

Perhaps Jesus wrapped the bread around a house brick and Judas died from eating that?

Who knew the family doctor was trying to murder me when he recommended soda water (made with baking soda) to help ease a juvenile bought of constipation?

a reply to: chr0naut

Reading church history, this exact scenario seems to have been quite common among enemies of the dominating Catholic heresy, people like Arius bursting open like Judas. Below are a few things that should be mentioned:

Answers.com on What happens if you ingest baking soda

And www.nytimes.com... can report that under given circumstances baking soda ingestion can indeed rupture your stomach (underlines by me):

Few people report adverse effects from the common household chemical. But ingesting it has been associated with scattered cases of stomachs bursting, presumably because of carbon dioxide gas the compound releases into the digestive organ when it is unusually full.

"I nearly died after taking this stuff," said William Graves, who suffered a rupture through the wall of his stomach in 1979 after taking baking soda mixed in water for indigestion after a big meal. The 64-year-old resident of Bethesda, Md., who is editor of National Geographic Magazine, said that only emergency surgery saved his life and that six more operations were needed to repair the damage.

Now, Paulus, subtle as usual, says about the Lord's Meal in 1 Cor. chapter 11 verse 26: For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. and further in verse 33: So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home— so that when you come together it will not be for judgment.

A confession of the Lord's death, and make sure not to eat too much of it, lest you'd suffer. Hmmm....

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: chr0naut

Reading church history, this exact scenario seems to have been quite common among enemies of the dominating Catholic heresy, people like Arius bursting open like Judas. Below are a few things that should be mentioned:

Answers.com on What happens if you ingest baking soda

And www.nytimes.com... can report that under given circumstances baking soda ingestion can indeed rupture your stomach (underlines by me):

Few people report adverse effects from the common household chemical. But ingesting it has been associated with scattered cases of stomachs bursting, presumably because of carbon dioxide gas the compound releases into the digestive organ when it is unusually full.

"I nearly died after taking this stuff," said William Graves, who suffered a rupture through the wall of his stomach in 1979 after taking baking soda mixed in water for indigestion after a big meal. The 64-year-old resident of Bethesda, Md., who is editor of National Geographic Magazine, said that only emergency surgery saved his life and that six more operations were needed to repair the damage.

Now, Paulus, subtle as usual, says about the Lord's Meal in 1 Cor. chapter 11 verse 26: For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. and further in verse 33: So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home— so that when you come together it will not be for judgment.

A confession of the Lord's death, and make sure not to eat too much of it, lest you'd suffer. Hmmm....

Please read the preceding verses and you will see that you have taken Paul's words entirely out of context. People were being gluttonous at religious services and leaving nothing for others. Paul was urging them to eat at home and deal with the communion as a religious rite rather than a free meal.

You were initially talking about Judas being killed? Now it appears you are talking about the sacrament of Communion, which is commemorative of Jesus death?

It appears a little confused.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Oh, I should have remembered. Killing Judas is bad and must be a lie, while killing Jesus is good and removes sin. Hmmm.....

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: chr0naut

Reading church history, this exact scenario seems to have been quite common among enemies of the dominating Catholic heresy, people like Arius bursting open like Judas. Below are a few things that should be mentioned:

Answers.com on What happens if you ingest baking soda

And www.nytimes.com... can report that under given circumstances baking soda ingestion can indeed rupture your stomach (underlines by me):

Few people report adverse effects from the common household chemical. But ingesting it has been associated with scattered cases of stomachs bursting, presumably because of carbon dioxide gas the compound releases into the digestive organ when it is unusually full.

"I nearly died after taking this stuff," said William Graves, who suffered a rupture through the wall of his stomach in 1979 after taking baking soda mixed in water for indigestion after a big meal. The 64-year-old resident of Bethesda, Md., who is editor of National Geographic Magazine, said that only emergency surgery saved his life and that six more operations were needed to repair the damage.

Now, Paulus, subtle as usual, says about the Lord's Meal in 1 Cor. chapter 11 verse 26: For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. and further in verse 33: So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home— so that when you come together it will not be for judgment.

A confession of the Lord's death, and make sure not to eat too much of it, lest you'd suffer. Hmmm....

Please read the preceding verses and you will see that you have taken Paul's words entirely out of context. People were being gluttonous at religious services and leaving nothing for others. Paul was urging them to eat at home and deal with the communion as a religious rite rather than a free meal.

True enough, but as always with Paul, there is a bite. He's saying one thing, sounding kind and well meaning, but when you go through his words, they are dripping with venom. Check out the letter to the Philippians. He sounds like a mafia boss threatening the community to adhere to his commands. 1 Cor. has much the same writing style.

You were initially talking about Judas being killed? Now it appears you are talking about the sacrament of Communion, which is commemorative of Jesus death?

Yes, and the part when Jesus does what results in Judas killing himself and bursting open, happens during the Last Supper, the Communion. That is why the Eucharist would be a testimony of Jesus' death in the first place. The main reason he was arrested and later barely survived his execution. Like the Angel of the Waters says in Revelation about Jesus: For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink. It is what they deserve! [ESV] Revelation 16:6

ETA: I believe the endgame for Jesus started as one of his necromancy sessions got out of control. And like Simon Peter says in 1 Pet. 5:8 «Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion» -- like a desperate, constantly burping victim of a murderous conspiracy who knows he is about to die real soon, perhaps?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: chr0naut

Reading church history, this exact scenario seems to have been quite common among enemies of the dominating Catholic heresy, people like Arius bursting open like Judas. Below are a few things that should be mentioned:

Answers.com on What happens if you ingest baking soda

And www.nytimes.com... can report that under given circumstances baking soda ingestion can indeed rupture your stomach (underlines by me):

Few people report adverse effects from the common household chemical. But ingesting it has been associated with scattered cases of stomachs bursting, presumably because of carbon dioxide gas the compound releases into the digestive organ when it is unusually full.

"I nearly died after taking this stuff," said William Graves, who suffered a rupture through the wall of his stomach in 1979 after taking baking soda mixed in water for indigestion after a big meal. The 64-year-old resident of Bethesda, Md., who is editor of National Geographic Magazine, said that only emergency surgery saved his life and that six more operations were needed to repair the damage.

Now, Paulus, subtle as usual, says about the Lord's Meal in 1 Cor. chapter 11 verse 26: For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. and further in verse 33: So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home— so that when you come together it will not be for judgment.

A confession of the Lord's death, and make sure not to eat too much of it, lest you'd suffer. Hmmm....

Please read the preceding verses and you will see that you have taken Paul's words entirely out of context. People were being gluttonous at religious services and leaving nothing for others. Paul was urging them to eat at home and deal with the communion as a religious rite rather than a free meal.

True enough, but as always with Paul, there is a bite. He's saying one thing, sounding kind and well meaning, but when you go through his words, they are dripping with venom. Check out the letter to the Philippians. He sounds like a mafia boss threatening the community to adhere to his commands. 1 Cor. has much the same writing style.

You were initially talking about Judas being killed? Now it appears you are talking about the sacrament of Communion, which is commemorative of Jesus death?

Yes, and the part when Jesus does what results in Judas killing himself and bursting open, happens during the Last Supper, the Communion. That is why the Eucharist would be a testimony of Jesus' death in the first place. The main reason he was arrested and later barely survived his execution. Like the Angel of the Waters says in Revelation about Jesus: For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink. It is what they deserve! [ESV] Revelation 16:6

Necromancy getting out of control.

No, Judas 'bursting open' happened later. The sequence was this:

Jesus was Crucified and this occurred prior to the any of the other events. We can say this as Judas would have no specific motivation to return the money while Jesus still lived and may yet fulfill Judas' expectation that Jesus would be the conquering Messiah.

Then, Judas tried to give back the 30 pieces of silver he'd been paid for betraying Jesus.

They would not soil their hands with "blood money" (making them ritually unclean on Passover and disqualifying them from performing priestly duties).

So Judas took the money and bought a field called the Potters field (land transactions even then usually took some time).

Judas went to the field he had purchased and (it is assumed from the different accounts) hung himself.

There was subsequently a gas buildup in the corpse which burst it open, allowing his entrails to fall from the body cavity to the ground (and no doubt, further distributed by wildlife).

Definitely not at the last supper.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: chr0naut

Reading church history, this exact scenario seems to have been quite common among enemies of the dominating Catholic heresy, people like Arius bursting open like Judas. Below are a few things that should be mentioned:

Answers.com on What happens if you ingest baking soda

And www.nytimes.com... can report that under given circumstances baking soda ingestion can indeed rupture your stomach (underlines by me):

Few people report adverse effects from the common household chemical. But ingesting it has been associated with scattered cases of stomachs bursting, presumably because of carbon dioxide gas the compound releases into the digestive organ when it is unusually full.

"I nearly died after taking this stuff," said William Graves, who suffered a rupture through the wall of his stomach in 1979 after taking baking soda mixed in water for indigestion after a big meal. The 64-year-old resident of Bethesda, Md., who is editor of National Geographic Magazine, said that only emergency surgery saved his life and that six more operations were needed to repair the damage.

Now, Paulus, subtle as usual, says about the Lord's Meal in 1 Cor. chapter 11 verse 26: For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. and further in verse 33: So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for one another— if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home— so that when you come together it will not be for judgment.

A confession of the Lord's death, and make sure not to eat too much of it, lest you'd suffer. Hmmm....

Please read the preceding verses and you will see that you have taken Paul's words entirely out of context. People were being gluttonous at religious services and leaving nothing for others. Paul was urging them to eat at home and deal with the communion as a religious rite rather than a free meal.

True enough, but as always with Paul, there is a bite. He's saying one thing, sounding kind and well meaning, but when you go through his words, they are dripping with venom. Check out the letter to the Philippians. He sounds like a mafia boss threatening the community to adhere to his commands. 1 Cor. has much the same writing style.

You were initially talking about Judas being killed? Now it appears you are talking about the sacrament of Communion, which is commemorative of Jesus death?

Yes, and the part when Jesus does what results in Judas killing himself and bursting open, happens during the Last Supper, the Communion. That is why the Eucharist would be a testimony of Jesus' death in the first place. The main reason he was arrested and later barely survived his execution. Like the Angel of the Waters says in Revelation about Jesus: For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink. It is what they deserve! [ESV] Revelation 16:6

Necromancy getting out of control.

No, Judas 'bursting open' happened later. The sequence was this:

Jesus was Crucified and this occurred prior to the any of the other events. We can say this as Judas would have no specific motivation to return the money while Jesus still lived and may yet fulfill Judas' expectation that Jesus would be the conquering Messiah.

Then, Judas tried to give back the 30 pieces of silver he'd been paid for betraying Jesus.

They would not soil their hands with "blood money" (making them ritually unclean on Passover and disqualifying them from performing priestly duties).

So Judas took the money and bought a field called the Potters field (land transactions even then usually took some time).

Judas went to the field he had purchased and (it is assumed from the different accounts) hung himself.

There was subsequently a gas buildup in the corpse which burst it open, allowing his entrails to fall from the body cavity to the ground (and no doubt, further distributed by wildlife).

Definitely not at the last supper.

The last supper was the last time Jesus and Judas saw each other before the arrest. A fermenting sourdough or leaven or for that matter, it can last for days. Normal yeast has a grow factor of ca 1, meaning it potentially doubles in size. May I remind you that when the yeast is introduced into the belly and intestines, it will spread and just about everything in your tummy would start to grow. Fats and liqueur will typically retard the fermenting process, but if the yeast has is already entered the system, luck and miracle may be your only friends.


ETA: Check out this clip about yeast and water. Notice the bottle with body tempereature, and remember that the foam here doesn't account for all the CO2 that escaped, inside your intestines, all this CO2 and alcohol vapour is trapped within a closed system, leaving the patient "roaring like a lion...."

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

«the disciple whom Jesus loved»

That was John ^. Mary Magdeline was not one of the 12 disciples.

Now what exactly did Jesus dip his morsel into before giving it to Judas?

Wine.

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

«the disciple whom Jesus loved»

That was John ^. Mary Magdeline was not one of the 12 disciples.

Now what exactly did Jesus dip his morsel into before giving it to Judas?

Wine.

Take a close look at the picture below and say again that Jesus was gay. As you can clearly see, the person Peter is leaning over against and whom Jesus loved-- is a woman, and both her and Jesus, and even Judas, carry their tunics like Roman elites:

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: DeadSeraph

Oh, I should have remembered. Killing Judas is bad and must be a lie, while killing Jesus is good and removes sin. Hmmm.....

Because Judas committed suicide (Thursday morning). He would not have been cut down on either of the two sabbaths, and when the holiday feast was over (Sunday morning) he would have been bloated, cutting him down caused him to "burst open".

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Take a close look at the picture below and say again that Jesus was gay. As you see the person Peter is leaning over against is a woman, and both her and Jesus carry their tunics like Roman elites:

Actually, you should learn a bit of basic Greek. English is a lazy language, we have 1 word that means "love", while Greek has about 5 different words to describe different types of love. In the title "the disciple whom Jesus loved", the Greek word used is not "eros" meaning an erotic love. The word used is "agape", meaning a "strong fondness or love between friends."

And again, Mary was not one of the 12. "The disciple whom Jesus loved" is John, that's how he refers to himself in his gospel account.

The “disciple whom Jesus loved” could not be Peter, as Peter asks Jesus a question in regards to this disciple (John 21:20-21). That leaves us with James or John. Jesus made a statement about the possible "longevity" of the life of the disciple whom He loved in John 21:22. James was the first of the apostles to die (Acts 12:2). While Jesus did not promise the disciple whom He loved long life, it would be highly unusual for Jesus to say, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?" if the disciple whom He loved was going to be the first disciple to die. Church history tells us that the apostle John lived into the A.D. 90s and was the last surviving apostle. Early church tradition was unanimous in identifying John as the disciple whom Jesus loved. It seems that John had a closer relationship with Jesus than any of the other disciples. Jesus and John were essentially “best friends.”

gotquestions.org

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Take a close look at the picture below and say again that Jesus was gay. As you see the person Peter is leaning over against is a woman, and both her and Jesus carry their tunics like Roman elites:

Actually, you should learn a bit of basic Greek.

But the Gospel wasn't originally written in Greek was it? Besides, Mary and her brother Lazarus are the only two persons in the "Gospel of John" whom Jesus loves in this way. When a married couple love eachother and care for eachother till death, is that erotic love? Last time I checked marriage is one of the best contraceptives. The love involved in being married is about being a family and raising children. What is so damn erotic about that? In another Gospel, Jesus is described as often kissing Mary Magdalen, and letting her speak up in front of his male disciples who would envy her since Jesus loved her more than he loved them.

Briefly answering the charge in the OP;
EVERYBODY at that table was dipping their bread into the same dish.
It was the way they ate.