NLBS #35: The Anti-Vaccination Movement and the Measles Outbreak

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

And part of this critical outbreak is that people who have been vaccinated are getting the potentially-deadly and debilitating measles because the "herd" is less immune due to the anti-vaxxers.

There is also the view that those already vaccinated are getting sick simply because the vaccine does not work.

I have many product ideas that do not work but i would love to get rich from them.

It is not proven true that the vaccine does not work because everyone is not vacinated.

It has been shown to simply be ineffective in many cases and the pro data will reflect monetary gain.

Logic says that if a high % of people becoming sick are vaccinated then the vaccine does not work well enough to be mandatory.

Just because someone owns a saltwater pool does not mean they live by the sea.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
There is also the view that those already vaccinated are getting sick simply because the vaccine does not work.

That's not correct.

I had presumed that it was widespread common knowledge that most (if not all) vaccinations are not 100% effective… shame on me for not accounting for that, and work with Joe to get it into the script.

The MMR vaccine was never promised to be 100% effective, however, as has been stated numerous times in this thread and in news reports about the measles outbreak, the vaccine becomes an effective hedge against new outbreaks, when the entire population is vaccinated. Vaccinations are not individual protection, per se, they are population protection.

Logic says that if a high % of people becoming sick are vaccinated then the vaccine does not work well enough to be mandatory.

Current percentages in this outbreak are in the norm. It's just that lots of unvaccinated children are getting measles, and circumventing the population protection mentioned above.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

It's not difficult, it goes in circles without addressing the real issue- patient(s) zero who are non-citizens. It shifts the blame to citizens who have to right to choose whether or not to vaccinate. Round and round! Identify the SOURCE of the problem and eradicate it (outbreak) and it has nothing to do with anti-vaxxers. Why is that so difficult?

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Well that is simply one perspective. I am searching for the numbers but so far i get that over 25% of those infected were vaccinated. I can not watch the videos. I wonder what % of the infected are here from other countries and unvaccinated? I also can not find a credible link between this being started by immagrants or visitors yet we seem to be accepting this as fact on both sides. When looking at this in terms of population this latest measels cases is best compared to the elola crisis.lol

The fact is and will always be that no person has the right to stick me with a needle without my permission and efforts to do so will be met with deadly force. Many take this issue very seriously and see it for what it really is. NL NWO BS

I get the impression that these topics are being research with a bias.

Should this thread be moved to the hoax bin after this proves it is all next level bull#???

"With the measles and measles vaccine debate reaching a near frenzy on the Internet, it is always nice to throw some cold hard facts on the firestorm currently raging in the measles debate.

So here are some easily verifiable facts regarding deaths due to measles in the United States for the past 10 years, and deaths due to measles vaccines during the same 10 year period.

First, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) keeps a weekly tally of disease outbreaks, including deaths. According to a statement made by Dr. Anne Schuchat, the director of CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, in an Associated Press story picked up by Fox News on April 25, 2014:


There have been no measles deaths reported in the U.S. since 2003"


Zero measle deaths in 10 years according to CDC

a reply to: fnpmitchreturns
Approx 450 Americans died per year, from measles, prior to standard vaccinations.

The US population, when the vaccinations began, was a shade over 189,000,000 persons.

The current US population is a shade over 324,000,000 persons.

We would be looking at roughly 770 dead Americans, per year vs the 11 per year from MMR vaccinations (108 over 10 years).

And, that is just worrying about death. What about all the extra permanently disabled?

Now, what about all the other things we are vaccinated for? Nothing like a resurgence of TB, or maybe some Rotavirus, or Diptheria, Typhoid, Small Pox, etc,etc.

Sounds like awesome times ahead if anti-vaccer's get their way.

originally posted by: humanityrising
I admittedly know nothing of this subject, so this may seem a stupid question, but if one kid in a classroom is not vaccinated and becomes sick, what do the other kids have to worry about if they were vaccinated?

I read your question then the rest of the thread and didn't see where anyone answered you. Joe did a great job with the video but didn't go into detail explaining heard immunity and explaining just how contagious measles is.

First Measles is a highly contagious virus that lives in the nose and throat mucus of an infected person. It can spread to others through coughing and sneezing. Also, measles virus can live for up to two hours on a surface or in an airspace where the infected person coughed or sneezed. If other people breathe the contaminated air or touch the infected surface, then touch their eyes, noses, or mouths, they can become infected. Measles is so contagious that if one person has it, 90% of the people close to that person who are not immune will also become infected.

Infected people can spread measles to others from four days before to four days after the rash appears. An immune person who has touched an infected surface can carry the disease for up to 2 hours.

Some people are not eligible for the vaccines—such as infants, pregnant women, or immunocompromised individuals those people depend on herd immunity to protect them from the virus. Also, no vaccine is 100% effective, a small percentage of people are not protected after vaccination and for others the protection may wane over time. About 96% of the people immunized from measles have a life-long immunity to it.

So right off the bat 4 out of every 100 people that have been immunized depend on the other 96 that are to not spread the disease to them then you add the infants, pregnant women, or immunocompromised individuals they all depend on those who are immunized.

Here is one singular example how one contagious person not showing signs yet can spread the virus.

Imagine a person infected goes to the grocery store at some point coughs covering their mouth. At the checkout they punch in their pin number for a check card. That surface will be contagious for up to 2 hours and in that time every person who uses it has become an infected surface and if any of those people are unvaccinated they have a 90% chance of contracting the disease and spreading it even further. If any of those people have unvaccinated children that they come into contact within that 2-hour frame they have a 90% chance of infection.

If the rest of the people for the next 2 hours are immunized as well as those they come into contact with then the spread of the virus will be halted.


That is just one specific example I am sure you can imagine others or worse yet if they had coughed or sneezed at checkout without covering their mouth.

a reply to: peck420
You just can not attribute the lowering death rate to a vaccine and know for sure that is the cause. It is more likely that treatment givin to those sick and better ems services is the cause for the lives saved. Too many factors to make it madatory.

a reply to: deadeyedick
Sure.

I'm just hopping in here to tell a true story.

When my Uncle was 3 he was a bright boy, very talkative and very outgoing.

Then he got the measles.

Complications of the measles caused him to be deaf.

This was way way before cochlear implants which improve hearing, but do not fully restore hearing.

He has been deaf for so long now, the Doctors said a cochlear implant would literally drive him crazy if he suddenly heard.

That is why my children and grandchildren are fully vaccinated.

a reply to: peck420

You may not be able to accept the post but actually we have a very great example of the level of care being an overwhelming factor in saving lives and preventing the spread of diseases.

Simply look at how ebola was stopped from spreading in the us vs how it spread in countries in africa that do not have the level of care we did.

I was convinced that since the us did not have a vaccine for ebola that it would spread and kill many.

I was so wrong about that i had to say i was sorry.

There will imo not be a better example that shows how vaccines are not nearly as good as prevention and treatment!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: deadeyedick
You just can not attribute the lowering death rate to a vaccine and know for sure that is the cause.

You didn't watch the video, did you?

We covered that.

400 deaths a day, world wide, before the vaccinations.

I'm seeing a lot pro vaxers that are basically saying it's selfish not to vax because babies and people who medically can't be vaxed.

Are the parents of babies and children who can't get vaxed not selfish? They want everyone vaxed so when they take their kids everywhere they won't be putting them at risk. I mean I see babies everywhere these days and a mentality of not giving up the old fun life to be inconvenienced by a baby.

Personally I didn't go out much when my kids were babes because they were still developing their immune system.
Surely anyone can go anywhere they like but why expect the majority to vaccinate just so your baby won't get sick? You don't have to go everywhere with that babe. That's your choice to risk just as not vaxing is my choice.

you have a compromised immune system? Yeah that probably sucks but don't demand the rest of us vax so you can enjoy everything the non immune compromised do. Either take extra precautions and stay home more or take the risk and personally accept the consequences.

I probably sound harsh or mean to some but no one seems to look at this angle. Like what happened to survival of the fittest? The world is so over crowded -IMO- why are we preventing Mother Nature from balancing it out?
Just my thoughts at the moment. Not saying it's the right way for everyone to look at it; simply wondering.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

I still dial up

Numbers do not do much for me.

I live in the real world full of people that lie and skew the facts in order to put food on the table in this dog eat dog world.

Some people buy into those numbers and some do not.

As i stated prevention and treatment will always be better than government programs for world control.

Ebola in the us being stopped and the fact that the cdc reported zero deaths from the out break of measles is proof that we are being pulled by the heart strings to the left.

This recently entered the arena. stephany senef PDF!! from MIT on driving factors of autism, vaccines only one part of the picture.

At that link you will find a pdf to a PowerPoint presentation that is presented by Stephany senef. She's got a bit of a sh!t storm surrounding her so Im not saying drink her particular brand of koolaid.... But I reckon she's on to something with it being a much bigger problem then just a single factor causing it... More then likely multiple factors come together in varying degrees to cause countless forms of autism... Much like we have.

Edit to add: not sure if senef is from MIT now or not, the link is at MIT.EDU but I reckon that doesn't exactly equal "MIT APPROVED!"

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

You seem remarkably passionate about your next level pro vaccine project here. What's your motivation?

originally posted by: RainbowSkye
I'm seeing a lot pro vaxers that are basically saying it's selfish not to vax because babies and people who medically can't be vaxed.

Are the parents of babies and children who can't get vaxed not selfish? They want everyone vaxed so when they take their kids everywhere they won't be putting them at risk. I mean I see babies everywhere these days and a mentality of not giving up the old fun life to be inconvenienced by a baby.

Personally I didn't go out much when my kids were babes because they were still developing their immune system.
Surely anyone can go anywhere they like but why expect the majority to vaccinate just so your baby won't get sick? You don't have to go everywhere with that babe. That's your choice to risk just as not vaxing is my choice.

you have a compromised immune system? Yeah that probably sucks but don't demand the rest of us vax so you can enjoy everything the non immune compromised do. Either take extra precautions and stay home more or take the risk and personally accept the consequences.

I probably sound harsh or mean to some but no one seems to look at this angle. Like what happened to survival of the fittest? The world is so over crowded -IMO- why are we preventing Mother Nature from balancing it out?
Just my thoughts at the moment. Not saying it's the right way for everyone to look at it; simply wondering.

Some good points Rainbow. I have a 3-month old baby girl and we've only taken her out a few times. Once to Walmart just recently and we were using their little antibiotic wipes like crazy on the cart and she never left her car seat anyways. Either way, when I see someone with a baby not even a month old out and about like that, I'm thinking to myself, they're crazy. It's their prerogative, but it is putting their own baby in jeopardy.

a reply to: RainbowSkye

Your post illustrates how little you know about vaccinations.

People that are vaccinated have a stronger immune system, not a compromised one. Why? They have been exposed to a attenuated strain of the pathogen in question, and have developed antibodies in preparation for defense. Unvaccinated have zero preparatory defenses and are relying on their body to develop antibodies fast enough at the time of infection.

As for survival of the fittest?

That is not a race you want to take against pathogens. They out breed us, they out adapt us, and they out evolve us. In the past we had protections due to technological limitations. People tended to die before they could carry to another population. That not only limited casualties, it limited the pathogens ability to adapt and evolve across the different populations.

Today, remove vaccinations, mix in current population densities, and we are looking to make the Spanish Flu and Bubonic Plague look like minor events.

You really need to go and work for Fox or something bro. Your NLBS are some of the most moronic BS I've ever come across on an alternative oriented site.

Give it a rest, you're not making many friends here. Try exposing the real people and issues that are destroying the fabric of our world. You are like a try hard Pen and Teller, but unlike them you probably don't even get paid by Big Pharma, you spew BS for free.

a reply to: Andromedabound

If you have such a problem with people sharing their own opinions perhaps you should stop sharing yours.