NLBS #35: The Anti-Vaccination Movement and the Measles Outbreak

a reply to: research100

Unfortunately, it is just a cult of personality. I'm actually alarmed by how much BASIC information is being overlooked.

You know something is up when it is being pushed by the whitehouse and fox news. Magically obama was not sure about vaccines until after the elections.

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: thebtheb



interesting...but...you do know that if a pregnant lady gets the measles, it can harm the baby..this happened to my father, his mom got the measles when she was pregnant with him...then,.when he was in his twenties, he had to have MAJOR surgery on his heart, he had a valve that was mostly blocked.....caused when his mom had the measles

You do not have any shred of proof of the cause and effect scenerio you gave other than timing.

originally posted by: idmonster

originally posted by: deadeyedick

a reply to: research100



well it does say greater than 25 mcg so that leaves much wiggle room

Less than <

More than >



Easy way to remember!



which way is the "arrow" pointing?





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Going down, or up?



i certainly wont be the first to point this out, but hope the little "aide memoire" above might help in the future.

It only shows that you are brainwashed into believing something that is contradictory to common sense. No other species with intellect in the universe would accept such bs.

a reply to: InFriNiTee

That video perfectly illustrates why I prefer to have my immune system fight the actual virus (assuming it's not something like Polio or something highly deadly) than be faked by vaccines into producing antibodies--the vaccine ones fall off over time to a point of uselessness and a false sense of security. Natural immunities derived from live viruses apparently last your entire lifetime.

Thanks for posting...I'm about 35 minutes into it.

originally posted by: hearows
Liberty comes with the responsibility to educate yourself on all the risks and benefits of the vaccine. If you're not willing to form your own thoroughly informed opinion, take the advice of a doctor who is willing to inform you in detail.

Measles is a preventable disease, however, the more people who choose to opt out for reasons other than allergies are creating potential hosts and vectors which could result in mutations of the virus or in worst case scenarios kill someone else.

To allow a single preventable death where the best scientific knowledge and evidence available has concluded the potential for side effects and reactions is comparably low, is unforgivable in our modern society. There is a historical death toll for measles that dwarfs all adverse reactions to the vaccine itself in both frequency and severity.

The freedom to choose not to vaccinate is one leveraged against the safety of others, and the actions of others to keep it statistically unlikely that the unvaccinated within the herd will be safe. Without the vaccinated, there is no debate, no risks of side effects, only the very real and potentially deadly effects of preventable illness. The potential risks of vaccination do not, in any case, outweigh the value of a single life lost to preventable disease. Propagating myths to the contrary is singularly corrupt logic.

TL;DR
Learn to science.

This is BS actually. First of all, "the best scientific knowledge" has not concluded anything, because there have been no studies, there have been no conclusions. This is the thrust of "anti vaxers" - do some studies. Find out the REAL data. But there is NOT any, not on most modern vaccines' efficacy, not on ANY long term possible effects. There are literally more studies in actual medical journals detailing the side effects than there are detailing that they are comparatively low. So I call BS on all that.

"Deadly effects" of measles? In North America? Really? Please..... First of all, the amount of deaths proportionate to the amount of people who get measles is miniscule - people seem to be forgetting that. How exactly do the risks of dying from measles match up to the risks of being vaccinated? Has anyone studied that? No. I do know that in the last 10 years, no one died from measles according to the CDC, but 108 people died from the vaccine. If no one had been vaccinated, would more than 108 people have died of measles. No one knows, and no one is going to find out.

And again, with "corrupt logic," what about the VERIFIABLE fact that vaccinated people can and do spread the disease they are vaccinated against?

Truth be told, you don't know how to weigh "a single preventable death" against other "single preventable deaths" from vaccines because you are not weighing all the true evidence.

No one has done these studies - or wait - people have done these studies, but since the CDC, and the vaccine makers, and the media do not observe them, people assume they are fraudulent. THAT is contrary to singular logic.

measles is only .0001% fatal. and at its worst only infected 2.49% of the population per year. why do people think its this fatal life altering condition? it seems like it one of those things that is simply more convenient to just not get instead.

It doesn't seem unintentional that people are confused about which vaccines to take and which not to take. It polarizes people's perspectives of health, making virtual cults of those who take all types vaccines, and those who take none... In terms of attacking general wellness, it sounds like a perfect storm.

The problem is that some people have questions about the safety of certain vaccinations and links to several medical concerns, one being autism.

So then, as is typical, , a medical professional I saw on MSNBC last night, didn't use data or science to reassure anyone that there everything is safe, as he should have done, he just ridiculed anyone that had any serious concerns.

He could have said. There is no link to autism, siting this and this and how that started and that, this one has been changed to be safer etc.

That's the problem.

If measles is spreading and we can't definitely say it is because we no longer have reliable news outlets, it will only infect those that haven't been immunized, if in fact the vaccine actually works. So for all you vaccine pushers if you just let it run the course you will be rid of all the non vacinating people eventually. Problem solved!

a reply to: thebtheb
Wow. Before the measles vaccine on average 500,000 people per year caught the virus and on average 500 people died. In the last 10 years 189 people died from the vaccine. So lets do the math, 5,000 people died from measles in 10 years before the vaccine and now 189 die due to vaccine in 10 years. Seems pretty easy decision here.

a reply to: blargo

It isn't just deaths but the cost of hospitalization and complications due to the illness. In the US during the late 1950s, serious complications due to measles remained frequent. As a result of measles virus infections, an average of 150,000 patients had respiratory complications and 4000 patients had encephalitis each year; the latter was associated with a high risk of neurological sequelae and death. These complications and others resulted in an estimated 48,000 persons with measles being hospitalized every year.

So many think that death is the only worry, but debilitation is far more frequent.

is the cause of this outbreak parents who dont immunize their kids or immigration of children that are unvacinated bring these illnesses to our shores? i don't know thats why i am asking but it does seem a more likely scenario that undocumented kids crossing with their parents might be part of the problem.

a reply to: proteus33 Why undocumented? It could be tourists from the Philippines, since they have a huge outbreak there. In 2014 it was an Amish unvaccinated that went on a mission to the Philippines and brought back measles to his village and over 350 got infected. So while they do not know patient 0 in the Disneyland case, they can make some educated guesses based on infection rates of other countries.

a reply to: thebtheb

The 108 deaths you're referring to are from the vaers reports in the past ten years of people who died after getting the MMR vaccine. However, there was no direct causal relationship created and many had preexisting conditions such as congenital heart defects. In comparison the deaths and permanent disabilities from measles is directly attributable to the effects of the virus. The conclusion you're drawing is ignoring pertinent statistical factors and information.

For the purpose of this discussion I will state that I am pro-choice. I am absolutely for the ability and yes I'll dare to say it, the right of people to make an informed decision after weighing each side of the issue. There are serious and valid risks and benefits on both sides of the debate and people can (and quite obviously from this thread, do) go round and round in never ending circles stating points and counter-points. There certainly isn't a magic bullet answer that will work the same from one person to the next and when it comes down to it, only the individual can and should decide what's right for them and their particular situation after weighing out the pros and cons.

Having said that, I do want to comment about everyone who's making the statement saying that anyone who chooses not to vaccinate should be thrown in jail and/or be held liable and responsible for covering the medical costs of those who do catch these diseases.

Really? Are we really prepared to go down that road? How many people making this argument chooses to smoke and subject those around them to breathing second hand smoke all the time? I'm sure I don't need to bring up all the stats on death and illness and the burden to the healthcare industry caused by smokers each year.

Likewise with the hundreds of thousands of deaths and social problems caused by alcoholism and drinking each year.. How many of you choose to drink to excess regularly?

How many of you choose to eat processed and artificial junk fast food all or most of the time and even worse, feed this crap to your families? On that same token, how many of you are overweight because of said choice?

Let's not start arguing to criminalize poor life choices until we're ready to do so with ALL the poor life choices that society on the whole ends up having to pay for in the long run.

Jesus H. Christ. So there is a conspiracy inside the conspiracy, inside the conspiracy? There is no bottom of the Rabbit Hole. Where the hell is that Blue Pill?

originally posted by: tmeister182
If measles is spreading and we can't definitely say it is because we no longer have reliable news outlets, it will only infect those that haven't been immunized, if in fact the vaccine actually works. So for all you vaccine pushers if you just let it run the course you will be rid of all the non vacinating people eventually. Problem solved!

NO ...you are not just talking about people who don't want to be immunized.... people who have immune depressed systems...children too young to vaccinated, people with allergy...they cannot be vaccinated...how many of them will get the measles(or other virus)

originally posted by: greydaze
a reply to: SkippyBalls
And yet they didn't get the measles because..Duh they were vaccinated.

I got all three of these including whooping cough and spent months on end in hospitals sick as a dog, right after, and even years after getting vaccinated.

Whatever was in the vaccine I received in grade one dam near killed me, within 2 minutes my arm ballooned up double its size, and throbbed with a pain almost unmatched in my life, it felt as if a sledgehammer was being smashed directly on the bone.

Not to mention I then got asthma , bronchitis , pneumonia and every kind of cold and virus imaginable for the next 10 years straight,

My parents told me I changed immediately after that encounter, and looking back I do recall this, foggy headed, couldn't even go to school my immune system was DESTROYED by all this.

Now years later , I find out that many people have the same things happen to them, and I would like to know why.

Facts are facts for me, I lived through a worse hell than death in many ways, and I think the medical industry knows EXACTLY what is going on, and they continue to push it more and more.

Anyways, since I have basically realized that health care only helps in dire emergency, I stopped listening to advice of doctors and Lo! I am healthy as hell, getting more so everyday....

Some of us are far more hurt by this crap than helped, it was like groundhog day for me , I got the same illnesses I was being vaccinated for, OVER AND OVER AGAIN, WHAT UP WITH THAT.

originally posted by: hearows
a reply to: thebtheb

The 108 deaths you're referring to are from the vaers reports in the past ten years of people who died after getting the MMR vaccine. However, there was no direct causal relationship created and many had preexisting conditions such as congenital heart defects. In comparison the deaths and permanent disabilities from measles is directly attributable to the effects of the virus. The conclusion you're drawing is ignoring pertinent statistical factors and information.

I was not drawing any conclusions. I steered clear of that and definitely did not draw any conclusions. I just stated some numbers. But this "there was no causal relationship created" is just a line. It essentially means nothing because you can't know what happened in all 108 cases. You cannot dismiss all 108 cases based on any one criteria. There IS a causal RELATIONSHIP on the whole. There is just not necessarily proof. But you, nor many of your ilk want to bother looking into it. That was my point.