NLBS #35: The Anti-Vaccination Movement and the Measles Outbreak

a reply to: thebtheb

interesting...but...you do know that if a pregnant lady gets the measles, it can harm the baby..this happened to my father, his mom got the measles when she was pregnant with him...then,.when he was in his twenties, he had to have MAJOR surgery on his heart, he had a valve that was mostly blocked.....caused when his mom had the measles

a reply to: Darkblade71

YOUR WORDS: If you don't vac your kid, you put everyone else's kid at risk too.

How far did you think this through? Or have you allowed the fearmongers to brainwash you?? If vaccines worked, then my unvaccinated kid could NOT infect your vaccinated kid!! How can you (and others) not get that??

Btw, I am a retired nurse, and I am ANTI-VACCINATION. There are links to autism, for one. For another, the amount of vaccines required today compared to when I was a kid is ridiculous. Just that, in and of itself, may be a big part of the problem. Have you ever read the ingredient list for some of those vaccines? Thimerosol (mercury) used to be in them, but was replaced with aluminum. Which is worse? Neither are good! But whatever, I believe in the Constitution, and I believe it's my right (and others' rights) to raise my (our) children as I (they) see fit.

originally posted by: research100
a reply to: thebtheb

interesting...but...you do know that if a pregnant lady gets the measles, it can harm the baby..this happened to my father, his mom got the measles when she was pregnant with him...then,.when he was in his twenties, he had to have MAJOR surgery on his heart, he had a valve that was mostly blocked.....caused when his mom had the measles

Fine, but, if a pregnant lady get a shot, that can also harm the baby. Plus most pregnant women no longer get measles shots, and if they've never had the measles, they're open to them.

originally posted by: ElohimJD

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
There is currently no gunpoint for parents opting out of childhood vaccinations. There should be other restrictions/penalties, but no guns. Just forms to fill out.

Hell of a good point. Let's see non-vaceener's sign a medical release and accept all medical costs associated with diseases that would have been prevented for their children. Then when their kids get sick and Mom and Dad go bankrupt because they skipped the vaccine society doesn't have to bail them out. It was their choice.

Heck of a good point.

Lets see Vaccine manufactures take on the same exact risk. They sign a release form accepting all the medical costs associated with the side effects of vaccines.

It is easy to play devils advocate here.

God Bless,

And then there's always the proven fact that the recently vaccinated shed the virus they were vaccinated for for up to a week, capable of causing others to catch it, so they should be signing this thing too - apparently everyone should. By my math, the unvaccinated child does less harm: if you go around and don't have a disease, well, if you don't get it, you won't be able to give it to everyone. But if you get vaccinated, you may not get it, but you can 100% give it to someone. The unvaccinated child has a chance of not getting it, thus might not pass it on to anyone, whereas the vaccinated child 100% is shedding the virus.

originally posted by: AmenStop

originally posted by: PLAYERONE01
so when we were all kids and measels was going around they would throw us all in a room together so we would all get it and we would be immune when it cycled back around.
Now i remember having this done to me along with a bunch of my cousins and maybe some ring ins. now jump forward 30 plus years being generous and we are all still here.
watching this clip and the almost hysteria being whipped up is bringing a kind of awkward smile to my face to say the least, i kind of have to laugh at the dont come near me i have had the vaccine but i might die line.
So i guess when you look at it, i'm not vaccinated but i'm sure as # not as scared about catching the measles as some people here.lol.

or it could have been chicken pox.

Exactly, they are turning something everyone on the planet has has since the beginning of time, into something you should fear? its a fraud, I had measles, and mumps and chicken pox, and I am the healthiest person I know.

Honestly, so true. I had chicken pox, measles, etc., - everyone got them back then. It was considered a nuisance, nothing more. Now it's this big scary thing and this is ridiculous. Come to think of it: thyphoid - one of the only diseases a vaccine wasn't invented for - what happened to typhoid? Um, it ran its course!

a reply to: Pardon?

Dr. Suzanne Humphries sits on the board of directors of the International Medical Council on Vaccination, www.vaccinationcouncil.org... and she stated in her article which you are apparently making reference to www.vaccinationcouncil.org... that Vitamin C is paramount in combating toxin mediated diseases such as whooping cough and tetanus.

She quotes Hilary Butler in her article about whooping cough as follows: “We’ve had over 90% baby vaccination rates for whooping cough vaccines for over 11 years…since 2000, AND they’ve included even more shots since then for the adolescents at the time… and yet more, after 2000… AND here we are with whooping cough in EVEN higher numbers than it was before 1960? Don’t you think that’s absolutely astonishing? Australia, which has had over a 95% whooping cough vaccination rate since 2000, is having the largest outbreak in their history since pertussis vaccination started. The same is happening in the USA, and their rate of vaccination is even higher than Australia. So what do you think is happening there?” – Hilary Butler

I admit your summary of Dr. Humphries' article would work on many people who don't want to look further into a matter. Are all of us on ATS are supposed to be ignorant and take “on faith” your quick and distorted summary of the entire article mentioned above?

You argue that Dr. Humphries is not qualified to speak on the subject of vaccination, due to the fact she is a nephrologist. If you want to hear from a specialist in immunity regarding vaccination, you can listen to Dr Tetyana Obukhanych, a well-qualified Immunologist, who earned her PhD in Immunology at the Rockefeller University in New York and did postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA. and Stanford University in California.

Have a look at what Dr. Obukhanych has to say on the issue of how vaccines can compromise a person's natural immunity:



I don't really mind if you get 100 vaccines a year. If you feel that it prevents illness for you, than by all means take the shots. Always remember that there is a risk with every single shot...

more then a few links (about 75ish)showing safety of vaccines (to those that can safely have them)
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Is there any link between the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism? Go to: Evidence In 1998, Wakefield and colleagues published a study1 of 12 children that suggested a link among MMR vaccine, gastrointestinal symptoms, and autism. At least 20 higher-quality studies2,3 have since failed to show any link between the MMR vaccine and autism. -A cohort study following more than 500 000 children for a mean of 4 years found no association between MMR vaccination and autism or autistic spectrum disorder.4 -A case-control study of 1294 autistic and 4469 nonautistic children found no association with vaccination.5 -Time-series analyses reveal no association between the start of MMR immunization and autism6,7 and no association between trends in vaccination rates and autism.8,9 -Canadian research shows no link between MMR vaccination and neurodevelopmental disorders.10 Studies also show no association with the preservative thimerosal, another suggested cause of autism.11–13

justthevax.blogspot.com... (dont feel like typing out all 75+ links to the study's that are all listed by source at this blog site) of note wakefeild is a source on one of these stating vaccines are safe

and on wakefeild the guy who wrote the main paper cited by anti vaxers

www.cnn.com...

(CNN) -- A now-retracted British study that linked autism to childhood vaccines was an "elaborate fraud" that has done long-lasting damage to public health, a leading medical publication reported Wednesday. An investigation published by the British medical journal BMJ concludes the study's author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all 12 of the patients whose cases formed the basis of the 1998 study -- and that there was "no doubt" Wakefield was responsible. "It's one thing to have a bad study, a study full of error, and for the authors then to admit that they made errors," Fiona Godlee, BMJ's editor-in-chief, told CNN. "But in this case, we have a very different picture of what seems to be a deliberate attempt to create an impression that there was a link by falsifying the data."

and to those that dont like big pharma here is one from the census department while it doesnt touch on the vaccine issue its self it marks deaths by disease from 1912 -1997 in 5ish year blocks and the numbers on page ten pretty much speak for them selves see the measles column that peaked in 1935ish with 584.6 cases per 100,000 of the population to a .1 level of cases per 100k in 1997 id call that pretty effective evidence of vaccines doing some pretty good things


www.census.gov... census data from 2010 on the rate of disabilities in americas (could not find a relevant rise in autism from the previous one)

blogs.discovermagazine.com... info on autism and how it was often misdiagnosed as far back as the 1940s (it used to be under the schizophrenic diagnosis umbrella before getting its own)

www.autismsciencefoundation.org... and one more from the autism science foundation with links to a variety of studys showing no relation to autism and vaccines

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: AmenStop

originally posted by: PLAYERONE01
so when we were all kids and measels was going around they would throw us all in a room together so we would all get it and we would be immune when it cycled back around.
Now i remember having this done to me along with a bunch of my cousins and maybe some ring ins. now jump forward 30 plus years being generous and we are all still here.
watching this clip and the almost hysteria being whipped up is bringing a kind of awkward smile to my face to say the least, i kind of have to laugh at the dont come near me i have had the vaccine but i might die line.
So i guess when you look at it, i'm not vaccinated but i'm sure as # not as scared about catching the measles as some people here.lol.

or it could have been chicken pox.

Exactly, they are turning something everyone on the planet has has since the beginning of time, into something you should fear? its a fraud, I had measles, and mumps and chicken pox, and I am the healthiest person I know.

Honestly, so true. I had chicken pox, measles, etc., - everyone got them back then. It was considered a nuisance, nothing more. Now it's this big scary thing and this is ridiculous. Come to think of it: thyphoid - one of the only diseases a vaccine wasn't invented for - what happened to typhoid? Um, it ran its course!

You can't be serious.

If it ran its course then why do over 21 million people a year still get it?

Anyone that has done any real international traveling knows to keep up to date on their Typhoid vaccine.

There is an inactivated Typhoid Vaccine (injectable) and a Live Typhoid Vaccine which is taken orally over the course of 4 doses. The risk of either typhoid vaccination causing serious harm is rare and reactions to either vaccine are generally mild. About one to six percent of people receiving a typhoid vaccination can experience headaches, fever and redness/swelling at the site of injection

.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: thebtheb

originally posted by: AmenStop

originally posted by: PLAYERONE01
so when we were all kids and measels was going around they would throw us all in a room together so we would all get it and we would be immune when it cycled back around.
Now i remember having this done to me along with a bunch of my cousins and maybe some ring ins. now jump forward 30 plus years being generous and we are all still here.
watching this clip and the almost hysteria being whipped up is bringing a kind of awkward smile to my face to say the least, i kind of have to laugh at the dont come near me i have had the vaccine but i might die line.
So i guess when you look at it, i'm not vaccinated but i'm sure as # not as scared about catching the measles as some people here.lol.

or it could have been chicken pox.

Exactly, they are turning something everyone on the planet has has since the beginning of time, into something you should fear? its a fraud, I had measles, and mumps and chicken pox, and I am the healthiest person I know.

Honestly, so true. I had chicken pox, measles, etc., - everyone got them back then. It was considered a nuisance, nothing more. Now it's this big scary thing and this is ridiculous. Come to think of it: thyphoid - one of the only diseases a vaccine wasn't invented for - what happened to typhoid? Um, it ran its course!

You can't be serious.

If it ran its course then why do over 21 million people a year still get it?

Anyone that has done any real international traveling knows to keep up to date on their Typhoid vaccine.

There is an inactivated Typhoid Vaccine (injectable) and a Live Typhoid Vaccine which is taken orally over the course of 4 doses. The risk of either typhoid vaccination causing serious harm is rare and reactions to either vaccine are generally mild. About one to six percent of people receiving a typhoid vaccination can experience headaches, fever and redness/swelling at the site of injection

.

I meant it was one of the last vaccines developed, and was not one of the ones touted to have "brought Typhoid to its knees," like they think vaccines have done for Small Pox etc. Typhoid had calmed down "all by itself," like every other disease did whether they would have had a vaccine for them or not.

Another interesting thing about vaccinations is where animal vaccinations have gone. In the United States, the American Veterinary association two years ago changed the guidelines for dogs/cats vaccinations, noting the development of tumors in the region the animals were vaccinated - with the rabies vaccination for dogs, it was seen as a correlation. With one particular vaccination for cats, a complete causal link has been established. So two years ago, the association recommended fewer unnecessary vaccinations, while noting that most vets are not observing the recommendations either out of fear of having the animals develop the disease, and then getting sued, or not wanting to give up the income those vaccinations brought them.

If you research this a bit, the discussions are much more open and honest than they are in the human field, where not one single solitary iota of leeway for even a suggestion to question vaccines for humans ever happens, but in the vet world, it does. Hmm.....

a reply to: thebtheb

Sure we believe you. So you simply misspoke when you clearly said.

thyphoid - one of the only diseases a vaccine wasn't invented for

As far as your claim that it was one of the last that is also incorrect. The first Typhoid vaccine was introduced in 1896. It was developed during a war and at the time more people lost their lives to Typhoid than combat after the vaccine was developed and administered that marked the first time ever casualties from Typhoid were less than combat.

It doesn't seem like you are looking up any facts before posting so here is a site that may help you in the future.
Timeline of diseases and vaccines.

Liberty comes with the responsibility to educate yourself on all the risks and benefits of the vaccine. If you're not willing to form your own thoroughly informed opinion, take the advice of a doctor who is willing to inform you in detail.

Measles is a preventable disease, however, the more people who choose to opt out for reasons other than allergies are creating potential hosts and vectors which could result in mutations of the virus or in worst case scenarios kill someone else.

To allow a single preventable death where the best scientific knowledge and evidence available has concluded the potential for side effects and reactions is comparably low, is unforgivable in our modern society. There is a historical death toll for measles that dwarfs all adverse reactions to the vaccine itself in both frequency and severity.

The freedom to choose not to vaccinate is one leveraged against the safety of others, and the actions of others to keep it statistically unlikely that the unvaccinated within the herd will be safe. Without the vaccinated, there is no debate, no risks of side effects, only the very real and potentially deadly effects of preventable illness. The potential risks of vaccination do not, in any case, outweigh the value of a single life lost to preventable disease. Propagating myths to the contrary is singularly corrupt logic.

TL;DR
Learn to science.

a reply to: RainbowSkye

a reply to: hudsonhawk69

a reply to: InFriNiTee

So the Cornell law site you linked explained that manufacturers of vaccines are considered liable in the explicit case of a vaccine being unavoidably unsafe. In that case they would be sued. That's a reasonable regulation, not an indictment of the safety of the product. The same would be true of any product.

originally posted by: InFriNiTee
a reply to: Pardon?

Dr. Suzanne Humphries sits on the board of directors of the International Medical Council on Vaccination, www.vaccinationcouncil.org... and she stated in her article which you are apparently making reference to www.vaccinationcouncil.org... that Vitamin C is paramount in combating toxin mediated diseases such as whooping cough and tetanus.

She quotes Hilary Butler in her article about whooping cough as follows: “We’ve had over 90% baby vaccination rates for whooping cough vaccines for over 11 years…since 2000, AND they’ve included even more shots since then for the adolescents at the time… and yet more, after 2000… AND here we are with whooping cough in EVEN higher numbers than it was before 1960? Don’t you think that’s absolutely astonishing? Australia, which has had over a 95% whooping cough vaccination rate since 2000, is having the largest outbreak in their history since pertussis vaccination started. The same is happening in the USA, and their rate of vaccination is even higher than Australia. So what do you think is happening there?” – Hilary Butler

I admit your summary of Dr. Humphries' article would work on many people who don't want to look further into a matter. Are all of us on ATS are supposed to be ignorant and take “on faith” your quick and distorted summary of the entire article mentioned above?

You argue that Dr. Humphries is not qualified to speak on the subject of vaccination, due to the fact she is a nephrologist. If you want to hear from a specialist in immunity regarding vaccination, you can listen to Dr Tetyana Obukhanych, a well-qualified Immunologist, who earned her PhD in Immunology at the Rockefeller University in New York and did postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA. and Stanford University in California.

Have a look at what Dr. Obukhanych has to say on the issue of how vaccines can compromise a person's natural immunity:

I don't really mind if you get 100 vaccines a year. If you feel that it prevents illness for you, than by all means take the shots. Always remember that there is a risk with every single shot...

So what if she sits on the board of an anti-vax corporation?
What does that mean?

If she believes that vitamin C cures diseases like whooping cough why doesn't she prove it?
Oh yes, that's right, she won't as she knows it doesn't.
But she'll write a book about it.
And all the gullibles will lap it up.
And still get whooping cough...


Who's Hilary Butler?


And you may find that Tetyana doesn't practice any more.
She has been involved in research though.
And none of the research she's published supports her claims.
What a surprise!!
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Here's a nice little summary of Tet
www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...

But she writes books on vaccines.
Of course she does!
And you lot buy them.
Easy money for no responsibility.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: research100

well it does say greater than 25 mcg so that leaves much wiggle room

Less than <
More than >

Easy way to remember!

which way is the "arrow" pointing?


0123456789

Going down, or up?

i certainly wont be the first to point this out, but hope the little "aide memoire" above might help in the future.

a reply to: Habit4ming

Yeah, I have had a crash course in what is in the vacs,
and just like any other meds, there could be side effects,
and some of the crap is not good for you,
however, just like what is happening now because people didn't vac their kids, outbreaks will happen without the population being vac'ed.

Although I do concede that it should be a choice,
when outbreaks happen and kids start dying,
at least I know it won't be my kids.

Anyways,
enjoy the day.

c(_) *sip*

a reply to: Darkblade71 someone mentioned wakefield who started this whole anti vax in the first place

www.sciencebasedmedicine.org...

First, no scientist not associated with Andrew Wakefield has ever been able to replicate his work.

Second, as was exposed by U.K. reporter Brian Deer, not only was Wakefield paid big bucks by trial lawyers seeking to sue vaccine manufacturers for “vaccine injury” to do his studies on autistic children, a conflict of interest he never revealed and that had to be exposed through Deer’s investigations, but months before he published his Lancet paper Wakefield had applied for a patent on a an allegedly safer single measles vaccine that could succeed best if the safety of the MMR were called into doubt.

Even after all of this came to light, leading to Wakefield’s correctly being dragged in front of the General Medical Council for charges of scientific misconduct. Even after this, he still enjoys a cult of personality that I can’t figure out, and is often portrayed as being “persecuted”

But isn't the pharmaceutical industry's refusal to remove brain toxic chemicals such as mercury from children's vaccines also a form of BS?