NLBS #35: The Anti-Vaccination Movement and the Measles Outbreak

a reply to: johnnyBgood

4.0.4. - Page not found.

a reply to: Grimpachi

you refuse to look at what is right before you.....just look at the chart.....it is so simple.....

it is you who has an agenda, not me. I just don't want people telling me I have to get something pumped into my body or not.

and you didn't answer the questions.....why did Japan ban the MMR jab and why do you care if you are protected by the vaccine?

a reply to: UxoriousMagnus

I can make charts as well without a source it could be from one of the known anti-vac hoaxers. Even if right 1 death in 1000 cases if there are 450 deaths do the math on infections then do the math on debilitations from the disease.

I don't know about you but when there are approximately 450,000 cases a year of infection that is not eradication.

I do not advocate for mandatory vaccines, although I do advocate holding those that negligently spread diseases liable for damages.

As is in this paper in the Journal of law, medicine & ethics

Free to Choose but Liable orthe Consequences:Should Non- Vaccinators Be Penalized for the Harm They Do?

As far as Japan I suggest you look into that more than you have considering they stopped with a version of MMR that had already been discontinued in the UK. Since testing with another and PO they caved to where they administer the vaccines in 3 separate doses.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Open up the page that was 404, and add ss/ to the end, and the article JonnyBgood posted will show. It was quite a good article, indicating that there is a vaccine autism coverup by the doctors who "studied" the vaccine's safety.

a reply to: Grimpachi

where are you coming up with this number of 450,000? You don't make sense and are not researching your own argument which is common for pro-vaccine types. Just blindly follow along and make a moo sound as they lead you into the slaughter room

CDC:
"In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 4,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles."

ALLLLLL kids got it or 3 to 4 million per year but only 400 to 500 died.......

I don't want any kids to die but 400 to 500 is nothing when 3 to 4 million catch it.

And that is right about Japan....they still give the vaccine but in three jabs......we don't....we still give the single jab and that is what kills so many kids and damages many more.....and is why Japan banned it.

a reply to: Grimpachi

lets look at the flu...

there are around 20,000 cases per year in pediatrics and around 100 deaths or .005%.

so if there were 400 deaths then only 80,000 cases would have to exist.

so the flu is way more dangerous since measles death cases back before vaccines was only .0002%

not sure if you are up on your math but .005% is way, way bigger than .0002%

a reply to: UxoriousMagnus

where are you coming up with this number of 450,000? You don't make sense and are not researching your own argument which is common for pro-vaccine types. Just blindly follow along and make a moo sound as they lead you into the slaughter room

It was in my first post to you.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

From information which I provided links to in previous posts but here is the link again.

Oxford Journals, The Journal of Infectious Diseases

CDC:
"In the decade before 1963 when a vaccine became available, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years of age. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Also each year an estimated 400 to 500 people died, 48,000 were hospitalized, and 4,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain) from measles."

What happened to your claim the disease was nearly eradicated before the vaccine?

Remember your statement?

the measles were almost eradicated before the vax was developed.

I don't want any kids to die but 400 to 500 is nothing when 3 to 4 million catch it.

So are you saying those numbers are acceptable even though no one needs to catch it or die?

And that is right about Japan....they still give the vaccine but in three jabs......we don't....we still give the single jab and that is what kills so many kids and damages many more.....and is why Japan banned it.

Is it more or less than 500 people dieing per year from the vaccine please link sources.

lets look at the flu...

Let's not, there are other threads on the flu vaccine this is about measles and the MMR no need to muddy waters.

a reply to: Grimpachi

from your Oxford Journals link:

"By the late 1950s, even before the introduction of measles vaccine, measles-related deaths and case fatality rates in the United States had decreased markedly, presumably as a result of improvement in health care and nutrition"

but ....whatever.....

if I ever catch the flu or a cold from you.....I expect to be able to hold you responsible.

a reply to: openlab

No nutrition would stop someone from getting sick though it's highly contagious stuff. Diet can do a lot, likely more then folks give it credit for but we don't have evidence that it'd stop an outbreak even if everyone had the money and discipline to implement a fantastic diet. Also, you don't know what IQ's might be flying around here man.

a reply to: UxoriousMagnus

What happened to your claim of eradication?

I already know deaths had decreased you said the disease was nearly eradicated.

From that same source it said fatalities occurred at a rate of 1 in 1000 reported cases from 1956 to to 1960.

If there are 450 fatalities from the disease 1 death/ 1000 reported cases how many infections must there have been?


Again what happened to your claim the disease was nearly eradicated before the vaccine?

whistleblower

It's worth noting that he states

I want to be absolutely clear that I believe vaccines have saved and continue  to save countless lives.  I would never suggest that any parent avoid vaccinating children of any race. Vaccines prevent serious diseases, and the risks associated  with their administration are vastly outweighed  by their individual and societal benefits.

a reply to: UxoriousMagnus

I'm gonna ask for a single primary source example of a child dying from the MMR vaccine currently used in the US that had no externalities which could have reasonably caused death whether or not they were vaccinated.

So... There's a trouble brewing here though that's concerning be a bit. The anti vaccination movement may have led to a new outbreak of measles and now the backlash is creating more traction than ever for implementation of mandatory vaccines (minus allergies and legacy religious exemption claims)

That's if they don't make vaccines mandatory across the board minus previously cited examples.

Where previously it was just assumed people would do their homework and understand the vaccine is better than the disease.

Another law to enforce common sense...

originally posted by: hearows
So... There's a trouble brewing here though that's concerning be a bit. The anti vaccination movement may have led to a new outbreak of measles and now the backlash is creating more traction than ever for implementation of mandatory vaccines (minus allergies and legacy religious exemption claims)

That's if they don't make vaccines mandatory across the board minus previously cited examples.

Where previously it was just assumed people would do their homework and understand the vaccine is better than the disease.

Another law to enforce common sense...

Um, lemme see, measles has always waxed and waned. Blaming THAT on non-vaccinated people is just this decade's BS. I'd love to see what would happen if everyone got vaccinated, and there were STILL measles outbreaks (because there would be), who would they blame next? Oh I know! How about the people that MAKE the vaccines that clearly are not GOOD enough, that other doctors in the past, years ago actually, have already said?

I don't know why the link won't work but a quick google search will take you there. just copy and paste this.

Obama Admin Grants Immunity To CDC Scientist That Fudged Vaccine Report…Whistleblower Plans To Testify Before Congress

a reply to: theNLBS

The anti vaccination movement is not real, at least it wasn't until politicians and media got ahold of it.
Like the little kids book about the girl getting the measles and being happy about it, that was definitely made by people trying to make anti vax people look really insane.

Clear the air, I had an MMR vax, If I had kids I'd get them vaccinated, and I believe in vaccinations.

HOWEVER, I am also smart and observant. ANTIVAXXERS is the new "birthers" "truthers" etc. Except this time they need to get everyone one the same side against the freedom candidate. So the main GOP and DEM candidate will agree on this topic.

What's happening is an anti vax idea and a small measles outbreak (both of which have been happening in America forever) have suddenly become a battlefield. Why? 2016. It is the super polarizing issue that loses you the election if you get on the wrong side of.

Sample from the future:
Debate mod: What is your position on vaccinations?
3rd party/libertarian/freedom candidate: Well I support vaccines, I was vaccinated, and my kids were vaccinated. That said I cannot deny anyone the freedom to choose for themselves and their families. So despite supporting vaccines I couldn't support forcing mandatory vaccines on the public, it could set a terrible precedence."
Debate mod/Hillary and Jeb in unison: ANTIVAXXER!
Hillary and Jeb in unison: Everyone should have the vaccine as a moral and ethical obligation to society blah blah.

Can't you guys see this is being pumped up before your eyes as THE polarizing topic. It's the new best way to get the people to vote on one issue that is useless and wont change anything without looking at the real platforms of the candidates.

ITS A SCAM GUYS.
I think vaccines are mostly good but do effect some people negatively and am open to research (never hurts). I am not going to vote based on this! Just like I wouldn't base a vote on the abortion topic with a looming depression, or gay rights in the midst of a depression. It should be up to the people.

BOTTOM LINE IS NONE OF US SHOULD EVER BE FORCED TO DO ANYTHING! Take vaccinations, pay protection money to Corporate Organized Crime, buy health insurance or to register for the draft. This whole system is evil and if you participate in it you are sanctioning evil. You are participating in evil.

originally posted by: hearows
So... There's a trouble brewing here though that's concerning be a bit. The anti vaccination movement may have led to a new outbreak of measles and now the backlash is creating more traction than ever for implementation of mandatory vaccines (minus allergies and legacy religious exemption claims)

That's if they don't make vaccines mandatory across the board minus previously cited examples.

Where previously it was just assumed people would do their homework and understand the vaccine is better than the disease.

Another law to enforce common sense...

I've done my homework and I know for a fact that these drug companies and our gov are not trustworthy. I am not going to take their word for anything nor the word of their "doctors" or "scientists" because they do have an agenda and it is not keeping us healthy.

Anyone who still has any trust or faith in this greedy, evil system of lie, lie, lie, for the good of people, I mean the profits, truly has their head up their arse.

Sure, you go ahead and take your injection. I will pass.

originally posted by: Darkblade71
This was a great one!

If you don't vac your kid, you put everyone else's kids at risk too.

That is the most inane argument on this topic. If I don't vaccinate my kid, but you and everyone else vaccinate your kids, how in the hell is my kid endangering yours? Explain, explain, explain? If you and yours are vaccinated from measles and my kid ain't, how is your kid going to get measles from my kid?


Where is this measles virus coming from? Ask that question instead of "why aren't Jane and Joe Freedom vaccinating their kids?" If we haven't seen a measles outbreak in many years, how the heck is there one now? Was it hiding under a Mickey Mouse toy, waiting for that unvcaccinated kid to come along? Uhm probably not. There are agendas aplenty for vaccinating. Ending disease is not among them.

a reply to: johnnyBgood

I've done my homework and I know for a fact that these drug companies and our gov are not trustworthy. I am not going to take their word for anything nor the word of their "doctors" or "scientists" because they do have an agenda and it is not keeping us healthy.