They were never there: Russia's silence for families of troops killed in Ukraine

originally posted by: humanityrising
a reply to: humanityrising

And we most heinously enslaved an entire race for centuries...

And the 20,000,000 that (majority starved, comparatively minute amount were purged) died weighs more how?

Both are evil. And you can bet the citizens of Russia look at our history in disgust the same way we do at theirs.

Again no - The Europeans did when they came to the new world. The US had slavery until the 1860's. Since you don't seem to know when the US was founded the time frame is about 80 years and not centuries.

Again way to ignore history and trying to lay the entire blame on the US.

Is it really to much to expect people to know history before making claims that are false / misleading?

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
Putin evidently doesn't know how to use "Training accidents" like WE do...

Actually that's is exactly what they have been telling next of kin.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

This is a reply to elemental grove and not BornAgainAlien...don't know what happened there.

The real crime of Mihkail

Was that he posed a threat to Putin, and Putin won't let that happen.

Mr Khodorkovsky also warned that Mr Putin had become a threat to Europe and might launch further “adventures” after his military incursion in Ukraine, to bolster his popularity and hold on to power through elections in 2018.

“What he’s done in Russia, to resolve specific questions, is destroy institutions,” he said. “What he’s doing in Europe is destroying the rules of the game.”

www.ft.com...

Because of course anyone he feels threatened by is considered a foreign agent.

causes it to scream propaganda in my book.

And I find this interesting about your source...

Voltaire Network does not aim to promote a particular ideology or a world vision,

And then they have this also...

Axis for Peace is an international, anti-imperialist forum organized by Voltaire Network International. It aims at initiating a dialogue between world political leaders and intellectuals who want to reach a common understanding and strategy against imperialism and zionism.

www.voltairenet.org...

Sure looks like they are promoting a particular ideology, so how can one believe what is written there when they contradict themselves like that?

And you think the Guardian is propaganda...wow.

So have you been able to prove that what is said in the OP is nothing but propaganda, because you have yet to do so?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The Geneva Convention bans crimes against humanity and it seems the leaders who have been getting orders from NATO to shell innocent civilians for no reason are also not prosecuted...but an interview with some captured soldiers is worse of course.

Might that be because NATO isn't targeting civilians and aren't committing crimes against humanity?

a reply to: humanityrising

not to mention the many others around the world.....

And did you look at the list you linked to, because it is about their operations which also involve humanitarian aid that has nothing to do with an invasion.

There are also times when the US was helping a country with problems they had that aren't invasions.

Now let's look at what Russia has done shall we...

en.wikipedia.org...

Scroll down to the timeline and you will notice that all the military action has to do with fighting and in other countries, but what we don't see is the fact that they helped out with humanitarian efforts, or was asked by another country to help with a problem they can't handle...but feel free to tell us again how bad the US military is again.

Just pointing out the complete idiocy of thinking one is any better than the other.

Really, because your replies seem to show otherwise.

so what? the people of east ukraine need russias help. or do you believe they should just be shelled non stop without some sort of fighting chance. russia didnt start this war.

love how you always point the finger. what about the ukranian families that have lost sons and husbands. this war doesn't have to happen. the DPR spoke loud and proud. they want autonomy and they will fight to get it if they have to. and since the ukranian army is letting up i guess they have to.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
russia didnt start this war.

haha! That's funny!

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

NO. th eConflict started when RUssia took over crimea with their men in green wearing no patches,AND that PUTIN said on the recored eventually they were his. WHile there during the elections the UN did not see any mis treatment of ethnic russians when they sent observers either.

PAtton was right to call on a attack on the russians after Germany fell. we would not be having this discussion at all. The Russians were really wore down after the war and with the production of a new nuclear device it would had been a short war indeed.

Rewriting history seems to be in the air lately...

- Yatsenyuk claiming USSR invaded Germany

- The Polish Foreign Minister saying Ukrainians liberated Auschwitz

- And now there are some trying to claim it wasn`t a coup which made Crimeans wanted to join Russia and Ukraine didn`t attack DPR and LPR

...sure !

a reply to: yuppa

no thats just an an excuse you people use to blame russia. do you seriously expect me to believe that the ukranians started attacking the easterners because russia annexed crimea? how does that make any sense? how do you even defend that?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Rewriting history seems to be in the air lately...

- And now there are some trying to claim it wasn`t a coup which made Crimeans wanted to join Russia and Ukraine didn`t attack DPR and LPR

Do you seriously believe what you type? Holy twisted fact base Batman!

Crimea was invaded and taken over by 'little green men' which even Putin admitted were Russian. Prior to that they weren't talking about leaving Ukraine

Remember who the leaders were at the beginning when the DPR and LPR were created? They were Russians until that obvious fact became inconvenient and locals were found to replace them. Those Russian commanders, with a core group of Russian special forces, took over administrative buildings in Donetsk and Lugansk by force and start recruiting locals. After that happened and the police in those cities could not solve the problem...then the military attacked.

a reply to: yuppa

No yuppa, I am simply including the deaths resulting from sanctions and the criminal use of depleted and enriched uranium!

This video tackles the issue of 500,000 Iraqi children alone during Bush Sr.



This focuses upon the uranium.

again emphasis is on children

Who exactly do you believe is keeping track? Source the info please

a reply to: elementalgrove

Iraqi death counts been tracking since they went there. aint no 500,000 kids killed. madeline albright wasnt using her own research she was using that british pollster who was later debunked i f i remember. th e total number from war actions are bout 350,000 or so off but thats BOTH sides not just from inadvertant US bombing. mos t killings are from IED's and bomb vest in crowded markets and locations.remember a casualty is not always dead either.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

When it comes to thinking of something as propaganda it really amounts to a matter of opinion, hence my emphasis on all things being propaganda!

You link me to the Financial Times in order to refute my claim about Mihkail!?

Do you not see what I am trying to say?

I absolutely believe that the Guardian is a propaganda tool. I also believe that RT is a propaganda tool.

Imagine that, Reuters, MSN, CNN, FOX, BBC, New York Times, USA today, Wall Street Journal, you know the media every last aspect of it, from the Murdoch empire, to DISNEY, CBS, VIACOM, Time warner, the whole gang!

If you think of Mihkail as being one of the good guys standing up against that evil Putin, it will naturally fit your preconceived notion and therefore the Guardian article will not be propaganda, sheer genius of how it works.

If you doubt his character, perhaps think he is a shady criminal... voila it becomes a propaganda piece!

Enjoy fiercely defending the west good sir!

Also continue enjoying that outside time when you give yourself a break!

a reply to: yuppa

And who keeps track of deaths resulting from sanctions?

And the generational effects of the uranium?

Also link me to the debunking info, about that Albright

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

There were no issues in Ukraine until Russia invaded Ukraine and illegally annexed Crimea. They then set their sites on the South and East Ukraine for the land bridge needed to link Crimea to Russia.

Russia military forces, without insignia, deployed and seized Crimea BEFORE any vote ever occurred.

The justification Russia used, which is up to like 12 different reasons now, has never been supported. When Russia raised the justification issue at the UN the UN asked Russia to provide evidence of Ethnic Russians being targeted.

To date Russia has failed to provide ANY factual information to the UN to support any of their "justifications" for invading Ukraine and illegally occupying Crimea.

check for yourself - UN Web Tv
* enter Ukraine into the search feature and you can watch all of the UNSC meetings held on the Ukraine topic and what Russias position has been all along. If you want me to save you the time the following picture sums up the Russian position -


The under secretary general for human rights visited the war zones and was not happy about what he witnessed. Acts in violation of the minsk agreement coming from Pro Russians / Russians.

The response from members of the Security Council on the latest bs peace proposal to come from Russia tells me that Putin may have bitten off more than he can chew.

a reply to: elementalgrove

If you did any research you would have noted her comment was taken out of context and media outlets failed to report her clarification and comments on the issue.

Albright had already made it clear to Lesley Stahl of CBS, who asked the question, that the Iraqi children were not dying because of the sanctions. Iraq can buy as much medicine as it wants. She admitted that sanctions did have negative consequences, but she argued that this was a price worth paying for containing the threat posed by Saddam Hussein.

Democracy Now! Confronts Madeline Albright on the Iraq Sanctions: Was It Worth The Price?

Transcript


This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Secretary Albright—the question I have always wanted to ask’ do you regret having said, when asked do you think the price was worth it—

MADELINE ALBRIGHT: I have said 5,000 times that I regret it. It was a stupid statement. I never should have made it and if everybody else that has ever made a statement they regret, would stand up, there would be a lot of people standing. I have many, many times said it and I wish that people would report that I have said it. I wrote it in my book that it was a stupid statement.

Since you are desperately digging into the past should we start posting the crap Stalin, Gorbachev, Kruschev, Putin etc etc have stated?

What does the comments of Madeleine Albright, made in 1996 btw, have to do with Russia lying about its presence / invasion in/of Ukraine?

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: yuppa

And who keeps track of deaths resulting from sanctions?

And the generational effects of the uranium?

Also link me to the debunking info, about that Albright

Ahh. i went back and re read what you posted . I assumed you meant killed by direct attacks. Sanctions were a try to ger saddam to comply without force but he didnt. SO he let alot of children die himself. the leader of the nation is responsible for what happens to his people. Was it bad so many kids died? yeah. Should we care yeah,But IRAQ has nothing to do with RUSSIA or UKRAINE.

Anyway here is a corrected figure of likely dead due to no food or proper sanitaion. this was BEFORE iraq war started that I was refrencing about that million dead iraqis.

"In 1999 Richard Garfield, a professor of clinical international nursing at Columbia University, put the likely mortality figure at 227,000 for children under 5 from August 1991 to 1998, most of them directly or indirectly attributable to the sanctions. (Welch notes that Garfield has raised his "likely" estimate to 350,000.) Garfield wrote,"

Ukraines is not undersanctions. ALso Russia has a desire to actually keep its people alive for at least for now so once again difrent than Iraq a sin Putin wont blatantly let people starve in his country.

a reply to: Xcathdra

ok well you keep listening to whatever the UN says and ill examine the facts. there was alot of evidence of anti Russian sentiment. much of it, no wait all of it, can be found on the internet. but im sure if you saw it you would just rationalize it away because the UN hasn't told you about it.

and your argument seems to be that Russia took Crimea and somehow got Ukraine to attack the east and this justifys the killing going on there right now. am i right to think this?

Russia has provided plenty of evidence on a plethora of subjects but guess what. the UN isn't on their side. they don't care. this is all about regime change. peace, prosperity, and democracy have jack to do with it. if Russia wants to fight back against these aggressive actions i support them.

again there is a fundamental difference about how we perceive the west. i see them as pretty much the fifth reich and you see them as the good guys, invading lands and killing people for freedom. and on the other hand you see russia based on what you have been taught to think about russia. i grew up in russia its not what the west tell people it is. putin is not hitler, NATO isnt just a victim to russia, and the people arent oppressed.

stop letting your russophobia blind you.