They were never there: Russia's silence for families of troops killed in Ukraine

It seems Russia is beginning to lose any real credibility when it comes to denying their troops being in Ukraine, .

The official denial of Russian military participation in Ukraine has pressured the relatives of those who served and died there to keep silent, and could deprive many of them of the benefits to which they are entitled. But some have started to speak out.

And one of those had this to say...

Yelena Tumanova, a hospital orderly from Russia’s Mari El republic, said her son Anton Tumanov told her by phone on 10 August that his army unit was being sent to Donetsk. On 20 August, a coffin came back to Mari El with a small window through which she could see his face. His legs had been torn off by an artillery strike, his comrades told her. He was 20 years old.

And now this is what amazes me about the situation...

Amid the official denials, soldiers are being pressured to deploy to Ukraine unofficially. Those wounded in eastern Ukraine and the families of those killed have been told to keep silent about their service there, according to soldiers’ rights advocates. Some families say they have not received the various compensations they are entitled to after losing a breadwinner in military service.

You just can't play with peoples lives and money and not expect something to happen...which is what we are seeing now.

And even soldiers are beginning to discuss the fact they are going to Ukraine...

They say soldiers have told them that they were pressured to sign documents to go on a “business trip” to eastern Ukraine or “volunteer” in other ways. Tumanov told his mother that his commanders offered a 400,000-rouble bonus to sign up to fight in Ukraine, then simply ordered them forward when volunteers weren’t forthcoming.

www.theguardian.com...

Looks as though things are starting to unravel for Mr.Putin concerning the denial of Russian troops being sent to Ukraine.

If it doesn't come from RT it's just Western Propaganda, Tsurfer2000h. Didn't you know that?

You silly billy.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

If the troops get disgruntled and angry, it may come back and bite Putin where the sun don't shine.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

If it doesn't come from RT it's just Western Propaganda, Tsurfer2000h. Didn't you know that?

This should be interesting to see how this get's spun.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

If it doesn't come from RT it's just Western Propaganda, Tsurfer2000h. Didn't you know that?

This should be interesting to see how this get's spun.

I imagine the Russian response will simply be a crossing of arms and a shaking of the head. "Nope, not true. Patently false. Not happening. Nope."

a reply to: WeRpeons

If the troops get disgruntled and angry, it may come back and bite Putin where the sun don't shine.

It does look like a very good possibility that it may already be happening.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I imagine the Russian response will simply be a crossing of arms and a shaking of the head. "Nope, not true. Patently false. Not happening. Nope."

Seems somebody should inform Putin that no matter how many times you deny it...it doesn't make it any truer.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I imagine the Russian response will simply be a crossing of arms and a shaking of the head. "Nope, not true. Patently false. Not happening. Nope."

Seems somebody should inform Putin that no matter how many times you deny it...it doesn't make it any truer.

I see it as a game for him. The longer he denies any involvement to the world, the longer it's mired in debate and argument. The longer it's mired in technicalities and word-play, the longer he has to gain a strong military foothold on the region. By the time the west has had enough of his lies, he'll be firmly entrenched and removing troops from Ukraine will be even more difficult.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h


Seems somebody should inform Putin that no matter how many times you deny it...it doesn't make it any truer.

huh?

Every good liar like good ole Clinton.. Knows... If you get caught in a lie, deny deny deny... There is always less movement against you this way, even if everyone else knows.. Won't give you that satisfaction.

It's more about the degree of emotion you feel to give you justification for stopping him. He's trying not to make anything cut and dry, including that mini invasion.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I'm just keen to see the resident Pro-Putin crowd come along and hear what they have to say...

Although evidence like this from soldiers families etc has been around for months - the BBC had a report on it last September I think and it got dismissed as "Western propaganda" then.

Here be a report from August

It goes to show you just how many troops Russia actually has inside Ukraine. Initially it was all contract men and special ops guys. They get rotated out after a few months and so on a couple times. Now they are reaching down to sending the 20 year old boys, just out of conscription and signing on for a few more years simply for the job.

The Russian military has a real weakness in manpower. They only conscript for 1 year now and new recruits are required to get 6 months training before any deployment. This leaves them with raw recruits in any prolonged situation like Chechnya or East Ukraine. The number of personnel on contract is still really small and can't handle extended deployments alone. In fact some think the summer drawdown of Russian troops on the Ukraine boarder wasn't to appease the West but simply a rotation of conscripts out and in.

www.businessinsider.com...

To be fair to Putin, slightly, he may not be lying...


Are they being officially sent out in sanctioned missions or are they choosing to go because of their political leanings and personal affiliating with separatists?



If it's the latter then Putin doesn't have to admit to anything and compensation would be out of the question.



All that aside its the same hegemony, different strategy.



Anything pro/anti-West/Russia is gonna be filled with s#e anyways there really is no defending any of them.

Well it seems that more have stories about their family members being sent to Ukraine to fight...

Sergei Kozlov, an IT specialist in Moscow, says his nephew Nikolai, a paratrooper based in Ulianovsk, was sent to Ukraine on Aug. 24. He was hit by a shell after he crossed the border, Sergei Kozlov said, and lost his leg.

A cab driver in Moscow who gave his name as Vitaly said his son was also sent to Ukraine. He has a picture on his dashboard of the 20-year-old boy smiling atop an armoured personnel carrier.

Vitaly says he is furious that his son – a paratrooper based in Pskov near Estonia - has been sent to Ukraine to fight for the rebels.

"They sent him there illegally to fight for the rebels two weeks ago. He says he'll be back on Nov. 20. I'm counting the days," he said.

Vitaly says officers tried to force his son - serving mandatory military service - to change his status to a contract soldier, which would legally allow him to serve abroad. Conscripts in Russia are exempt from foreign service.

uk.reuters.com...

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

But, since it's coming from the unbiased independent source ( as is anything that's not Russian according to ATS ), then i have no doubts whatsoever in the credibility behind this claim.

Oh, never mind, i forgot how useless it is nowadays to engage into any discussion with the members of ATS...I will just get gang banged by the old crew

a reply to: stumason

Although evidence like this from soldiers families etc has been around for months - the BBC had a report on it last September I think and it got dismissed as "Western propaganda" then.

There are many more out there that are finally getting tired of not knowing what happened to their family members...I know they have been out there, but this is just more icing on the cake as far as not being able to hide the fact Russian troops are in Ukraine.

The most interesting thing to me is the fact they are almost being forced to fight, and it seems that it doesn't matter if you want to go or not...your going no matter what you want.

a reply to: Nikola014

But you also won't present evidence to disprove them either....

All those links in the OP are doing is reporting on what Russian people and organisations are saying.

Are you saying that they aren't, or that the OP's links are lies?

a reply to: stumason

I did not reply to the op, it's quite obvious.

I don't understand which part of my reply lead you to believe that I've said anything that you are trying to suggest that that i've said. All that i've said is that MSM are unbiased and independent and do not have a secret agenda. Only Russian media does, duh.

a reply to: Nikola014

Because, Nikolai, knowing full well your stance on the issue and the fact your post was laden with sarcasm, it seemed the obvious question.

Are you now telling me that you weren't being sarcastic and that you now believe that Russia is stirring the pot in the Ukraine?

a reply to: stumason

You miss spelled my name. I believe that it was a honest mistake and not a thoughtful provocation.

I do not know where exactly was I being sarcastic , when all that I have done was expressing the opinion of the ATS owners. We have been told that only the Russian media's is biased and controlled by the devil. All that i did was sharing it with you guys in case you forgot about it.

And I have got no intention in opening the old discussion that we had months back, because as I have said, there's no point in entering into any discussion with you guys.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

If it doesn't come from RT it's just Western Propaganda, Tsurfer2000h. Didn't you know that?

This should be interesting to see how this get's spun.

I imagine the Russian response will simply be a crossing of arms and a shaking of the head. "Nope, not true. Patently false. Not happening. Nope."

They put my signature into practice on a daily basis.