Christian Complaint that Baker Refuses to Decorate Cake with Anti-Gay Message

originally posted by: Realtruth
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Hey BH

I had a thread that touched on this very issue in Michigan. Michigan passing a bill about "Religious Freedom Bill"

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1046004/pg1

He cited several examples of protections, from the baker who doesn't want to provide a wedding cake to same-sex marriage couple to the Jewish mother who doesn't want an autopsy on her son who died in a car crash. Both cited religious beliefs as reasons in their cases.

"This is not a license to discriminate," Bolger said. "People simply want their government to allow them to practice their faith in peace."

Other states are also trying to pass Freedom of Religion bills and other bills that deny basic equal rights to certain individuals.

They will eventually be overturned and/or LGBT will eventually be added to the Civil Rights Act as a discriminated minority.

originally posted by: Annee

They will eventually be overturned and/or LGBT will eventually be added to the Civil Rights Act as a discriminated minority.

Ya think. lol

We are on the same page for sure.

NO! Many of you are wrong and know you are wrong. Here is how it works. If EVERYONE has to accept EVERYONE and not discriminate against ANYONE'S beliefs, then this baker is just as wrong as the other. If you want equality, if you want fairness that means that everyone's beliefs are equal and MUST be treated the same. If I want you to make me an anti-jewish cake with a swastika then you have to do it. Or...you allow the business owners to choose who they do and don't server no matter what.

What many of you are saying here is not equality and not fairness. If that is what you want...equality...you have to treat everyone's opinions the same. It is truly that simple. You lose the right to pick and choose what is acceptable, just like everyone else.

Logic. Simple logic. By the way...I personally think ANY business owner should be able to decide who they do and don't want to serve. If they are dumb enough to turn away customers...let them fail.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Here is how it works. If EVERYONE has to accept EVERYONE and not discriminate against ANYONE'S beliefs, then this baker is just as wrong as the other.

You seem to misunderstand. I don't know of any law that says you can't discriminate against beliefs. You simply can't discriminate against people because of their beliefs.

There is nothing in the laws that require others to accept peoples beliefs.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
If EVERYONE has to accept EVERYONE and not discriminate against ANYONE'S beliefs, then this baker is just as wrong as the other.

This baker offered to bake the cake and set the customer up with the tools he'd need to do something that she disapproved of once the customer took it home. Because what he DOES with the cake is none of her business. Her job (by her choice) is to make cakes for the public.

The other baker denied any service based on what the gay couple was going to do with the cake (marriage celebration), which the baker disapproved of, even though it's none of his business. His job (by his choice) is to make cakes for the public.

BOTH bakers disapproved of the purpose of the cake.

Yet one offered to make the cake (and help with decorations) and the other refused to make the cake.

If you want equality, if you want fairness that means that everyone's beliefs are equal and MUST be treated the same.

As Grim said, this is not about beliefs being equal or treated in any way. It's about PEOPLE being treated equally under the law.

If I want you to make me an anti-jewish cake with a swastika then you have to do it. Or...you allow the business owners to choose who they do and don't server no matter what.

Making a certain decoration is VERY different from deciding WHO does and doesn't get served. Decorations vs People.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Good luck trying to reason with them. The authoritarians don't care about people they disagree with. Their sense of equality only extends to the people they've deemed their equals.

It's ironic because using government to enforce your subjective morals is immoral.

I'm going to open a restaurant and only serve Libertarians.

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Good luck trying to reason with them. The authoritarians don't care about people they disagree with. Their sense of equality only extends to the people they've deemed their equals.

It's ironic because using government to enforce your subjective morals is immoral.

I'm going to open a restaurant and only serve Libertarians.

I'm trying to decide if this even makes any sense.

Still trying . . .

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Good luck trying to reason with them. The authoritarians don't care about people they disagree with. Their sense of equality only extends to the people they've deemed their equals.

It's ironic because using government to enforce your subjective morals is immoral.

I'm going to open a restaurant and only serve Libertarians.

I'm trying to decide if this even makes any sense.

Still trying . . .

Don't give yourself a stroke from too much effort.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

DISGUSTING!!! GOOD FOR THE BAKER!!! HEY LIBS AND CONSERVS, HOW ABOUT RIGHTS!!!!!!!!

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Good luck trying to reason with them. The authoritarians don't care about people they disagree with. Their sense of equality only extends to the people they've deemed their equals.

It's ironic because using government to enforce your subjective morals is immoral.

I'm going to open a restaurant and only serve Libertarians.

you're funny....

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Good luck trying to reason with them. The authoritarians don't care about people they disagree with. Their sense of equality only extends to the people they've deemed their equals.

It's ironic because using government to enforce your subjective morals is immoral.

I'm going to open a restaurant and only serve Libertarians.

I'm trying to decide if this even makes any sense.

Still trying . . .

Don't give yourself a stroke from too much effort.

Does it look like I exerted much effort?

You're being authoritative blaming others for being authoritative.

a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

Real classy.

This is about a person that doesn't do any sort of hate speech for anyone.

Show me this baker doing a cake with hate speech for some one and then your little rant would make sense.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

Real classy.

This is about a person that doesn't do any sort of hate speech for anyone.

Show me this baker doing a cake with hate speech for some one and then your little rant would make sense.

He bakes cakes, what decorations he does or does not do is irrelevant. As other posters have pointed out to me in other threads, he has to do it because he advertises himself to the public as a cake-baker. Decorations are implied, and if the patron has to decorate it on his own, then he should be given a discount. You buy a cake from a professional for the decorations.

I think I'm actually changing my mind on this issue, though. It would be epic to order a cake from a Christian bakery and force them to decorate it with satanic pentagrams and the words Teach Children to Worship Satan scribbled acrossed the top.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: LewsTherinThelamon

Real classy.

This is about a person that doesn't do any sort of hate speech for anyone.

Show me this baker doing a cake with hate speech for some one and then your little rant would make sense.

It doesn't matter if they do hate speech for anybody or not.

Businesses can and do choose what content they produce.

Customers cannot demand content.

Businesses can't turn away people based on race, religion, etc. But they have total discretion what to put on the cake, or write in a book, or paint on a canvas.

There is no law that forces a business to produce content for a customer.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Good luck trying to reason with them. The authoritarians don't care about people they disagree with. Their sense of equality only extends to the people they've deemed their equals.

It's ironic because using government to enforce your subjective morals is immoral.

I'm going to open a restaurant and only serve Libertarians.

I'm trying to decide if this even makes any sense.

Still trying . . .

Don't give yourself a stroke from too much effort.

Does it look like I exerted much effort?

You're being authoritative blaming others for being authoritative.

I'm accusing others of being authoritarian, not authoritative. Authoritarian is a political leaning that the majority of users in this thread can be categorized as.

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Good luck trying to reason with them. The authoritarians don't care about people they disagree with. Their sense of equality only extends to the people they've deemed their equals.

It's ironic because using government to enforce your subjective morals is immoral.

I'm going to open a restaurant and only serve Libertarians.

I'm trying to decide if this even makes any sense.

Still trying . . .

Don't give yourself a stroke from too much effort.

Does it look like I exerted much effort?

You're being authoritative blaming others for being authoritative.

I'm accusing others of being authoritarian, not authoritative. Authoritarian is a political leaning that the majority of users in this thread can be categorized as.

Got it --- thanks.

Actually I think authoritarian fits better anyway.

Commonly Confused Words: authoritarian / authoritative

Authoritarian in an adjective. It means tyrannical domineering dictator-like
Authoritative is an adjective. It means knowledgeable competent possessing due or acknowledged authority

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

The Christian Gay Cake debate has got to be wrangled in.
It is Out of Control.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE
If EVERYONE has to accept EVERYONE and not discriminate against ANYONE'S beliefs, then this baker is just as wrong as the other.

This baker offered to bake the cake and set the customer up with the tools he'd need to do something that she disapproved of once the customer took it home. Because what he DOES with the cake is none of her business. Her job (by her choice) is to make cakes for the public.

The other baker denied any service based on what the gay couple was going to do with the cake (marriage celebration), which the baker disapproved of, even though it's none of his business. His job (by his choice) is to make cakes for the public.

BOTH bakers disapproved of the purpose of the cake.

Yet one offered to make the cake (and help with decorations) and the other refused to make the cake.

If you want equality, if you want fairness that means that everyone's beliefs are equal and MUST be treated the same.

As Grim said, this is not about beliefs being equal or treated in any way. It's about PEOPLE being treated equally under the law.

If I want you to make me an anti-jewish cake with a swastika then you have to do it. Or...you allow the business owners to choose who they do and don't server no matter what.

Making a certain decoration is VERY different from deciding WHO does and doesn't get served. Decorations vs People.

Here's a simple example:

Suppose there's a Jewish artist.

A customer goes into his shop and asks for a painting that says, "I hate Christians." Fine. He paints the picture.

Another customer goes into his shop and asks for a painting that says, "I hate Muslims." Fine. He paints the picture.

A third customer goes into the shop and asks for a painting that says, "I hate Jews." The artists says, "No, would you like something else?"

A fourth customer goes into the shop and asks for a painting that says, "I love being gay." The artist says, "No, would you like something else?"

The artist didn't discriminate against any person. He simply chose what artwork he would produce.

It sounds to me like this woman caught her husband getting jiggy with the male gardener. God-bothered hypocrites are everywhere, in every religion, espousing tolerance in the name of their particular beliefs yet living in contrast to them.

Shameful.

originally posted by: Leonidas
It sounds to me like this woman caught her husband getting jiggy with the male gardener. God-bothered hypocrites are everywhere, in every religion, espousing tolerance in the name of their particular beliefs yet living in contrast to them.

Shameful.

Um, did you mean to post in the thread about the woman who owns the flower shop?