Christian Complaint that Baker Refuses to Decorate Cake with Anti-Gay Message

a reply to: EternalSolace

It is my right, as christian, to not make any sense. I have turned this into an art form bro.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Nope nonsense!

Religion should be a private matter that is kept in the home and places of worship. The rest of society should not be refused service because of someone's belief system. This is why in the US there is "meant" to be a separation between government and religion.

Let's put this another way and imagine for a moment that in ten years from now the Muslim community in the USA or in your home town, has increased to a point where shop owners are denying service to "infidels", because they are owned by Muslims?

How would you feel as a none muslim being refused service as you don't have the same belief system as the shop owner?

I use Islam as an example.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Thank you for understanding where I was coming from.

It is sometimes difficult for me to post my thoughts in a clear way-dad was a Marine Master Sgt.,and my typical style of speech is inherited. (it isn't exactly ATS friendly-but I do my best not to get banned,lol)

originally posted by: IShotMyLastMuse
I wish i had something meaningful to say to this.
But i'm rendered speechless by the realization that there are people that will go out of their way to cause conflict.
That woman had to plan this sort of thing out, to some extent, she had to wake up one morning, and while ironing or whatever she actually built this scenario, you see what i'm saying?
she had to plan what to write on the cake, she had to purposely go to the only baker that she knew would refuse to do it, just so she can then go talk to a lawyer to make a fuss about this.
She could have used that day to literally do ANYTHING else.
the idea that people like that exist blows my f@ck1ng mind.

Waitaminute...


I thought that all things were ok if you claimed you were doing it in the name of Christianity?

Some Christians have way too much time on their hands and way too much holier-than-thou in their heads.

Yup, just looking for her 15 minutes of fame...gonna write a book, go on oprah and get rich!

All in the name of Christianity of course.

Peace

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: EternalSolace

Nope nonsense!

Religion should be a private matter that is kept in the home and places of worship. The rest of society should not be refused service because of someone's belief system. This is why in the US there is "meant" to be a separation between government and religion.

Let's put this another way and imagine for a moment that in ten years from now the Muslim community in the USA or in your home town, has increased to a point where shop owners are denying service to "infidels", because they are owned by Muslims?

How would you feel as a none muslim being refused service as you don't have the same belief system as the shop owner?

I use Islam as an example.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not going to knock a Muslim for refusing me service because I'm an 'infidel', I'm not going to knock a pro-gay bakery for not providing me a cake to support traditional marriage, and I'm not going to knock a Christian business owner that won't bake me a cake for a gay wedding. I'm going to go somplace and support a business that will.

This whole situation is like a double edged sword. One persons rights shouldn't trample the rights of another person. Just like one groups rights, shouldn't trample the rights of another group.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Ahimsa posted a link to an article countering the original story.

That link was posted and discussed earlier in the thread. It happened last month in California and I don't even know what their laws are. But the "customer" was asking for a cake that said, "Gay Marriage is Wrong". That's not "supporting traditional marriage", it's demonizing gay marriage. A statement supporting traditional marriage would be something like, "Man and Wife: The way it should be" or something.

There are apparently two sides to it. One, in which the bakeries are claiming the Christian wanted hate speech. The other story, claiming that the Christian just wanted a cake that supported traditional weddings.

I understand what you're saying, but the phrase "supports traditional marriage" is usually used as code for anti-gay. Hey, I support traditional marriage, I'm IN one. But I also support equality under the law. If I can marry the person of my choosing (and I did, 23 years ago), other consenting adults should be permitted to do the same.

A blank cake, in and of itself might not be. But being required to provide a service for something that is against your faith is the point.

And how is making a wedding cake against someone's faith, when they make wedding cakes every day? As I've said before, it's really none of the bakers business what the cake will be used for. It's not their place to approve or disapprove of what the cake is for. The grocery store does not approve or disapprove of the meals I'm making with the food I buy. It's simply none of their business.

But that does not mean that the bakery wasn't pro-gay.

What is a "pro-gay" bakery? The bakery makes cakes for gay weddings and religious weddings. They make cakes that look like bibles and put lovely religious sayings on them. They just don't put hate speech on ANY cake. That doesn't mean they're "pro-gay", whatever that is. They are equality minded. In other words, they treat ALL their customers the same.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Human rights supersede religious rights.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Jamie1
It's the same family.

The same family as what???

The name of the man in this thread (source in the OP) has not been released.

Yes, there is a father and son who CALLED 13 bakeries in California and asked for anti-gay hate speech to be put on cakes, but it has nothing to do with the case in this thread, where a man visited a Colorado bakery.

www.christianpost.com...

I was going by the post somebody else put in the thread that claimed to ID the "Christian" in this story.

a reply to: EternalSolace

It in no way makes sense, particularly not in relation to THIS incident. I think people are reading into it with a bias. Or not really reading at all.

originally posted by: ahimsa
a reply to: ~Lucidity

It does make sense, you just refuse to see it. What's right is wrong, what's wrong is right...these are the times we are in.

I refuse to see what? That this is a shameful exercise? That someone attempted to make a ridiculous point and failed miserably while exposing themselves as an ass?

What I refuse is to take these ignorant collections of nonsensensical, illogical excuses, of which the one you posted was a ripe example, seriously.

This is retarded!

Only a Moron would go into a place and get upset that they don't write an offensive thing on a cake. That's stupid. Everyone knows people don't do that and that if they don't you shouldn't get upset with them.

This is a case of A. His parents didn't make him put down the video games and play with other kids. and B. He obviously listens to do much talk radio.

Case closed.

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: EternalSolace

Human rights supersede religious rights.

For sure.

originally posted by: aboutface
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Oh for crying out loud! Talk about baiting someone in order to get in the news. In the end that self-righteous person will be shunned as a troublemaker. Good on the baker though for offering to provide the icing so that the customer could write whatever on the cake. It shows common sense and good business skills.

so then the answer to all this is to just give the customer the iceing and let them write what they want? Do you think a Christian baker could do the same and get away with it? I doubt it very much.

originally posted by: guitarplayer

originally posted by: aboutface
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Oh for crying out loud! Talk about baiting someone in order to get in the news. In the end that self-righteous person will be shunned as a troublemaker. Good on the baker though for offering to provide the icing so that the customer could write whatever on the cake. It shows common sense and good business skills.

so then the answer to all this is to just give the customer the iceing and let them write what they want? Do you think a Christian baker could do the same and get away with it? I doubt it very much.

The gay couple in the Colorado case did not request any writing on their cake, nor anything at all which would signify homosexuality. They didn't ask for a rainbow cake. They didn't ask for "SUPPORT GAY MARRAIGE" to be scrawled on the top. They didn't ask for same-sex cake toppers. The didn't ask for Cher or The Village People to be played while the cake was presented. The asked for a simple wedding cake.

Why is it ok to not make one for the Christian customer but it is not ok to not make one for the gay couple? Either the owner has a right to refuse service or they don't and if that is the case that they don't have that right then Christians need to start going to Muslim bakers and asking for Christian theme cakes or cakes with pigs or dogs on them maybe even with bacon on top. Do you think anything would be done to the Muslim baker if they refused to make the cake? I doubt it very much the person would most likely to be order to take sensitivity training to become sensitive to the Muslim religious beliefs.
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

I saw a youtube video of another guy doing this. He was calling Gay Bakeries (I guess those exist? Or maybe they were just known Gay Friendly bakeries), but he was going about it completely wrong. He was asking them to write "Gay Marriage is wrong" on the cake, which is stupid.

That being said, I want to make it clear that I do not care who marries who and puts what where. It is people's own business. HOWEVER, I also support what these guys are trying to accomplish. If they are going to try to prove a point, they need to be politically correct about it, instead of asking a gay bakery to write something that is obviously hateful, they should request something along the lines of 'Marriage: One man One woman' I think only if they asked something to that effect would they have a case, otherwise, it is just frivolousness.

Again, I fully support and am Pro gay marriage, but it angers me that gay couples are suing bakeries because they won't bake a freaking cake, that is equally as frivolous as these guys, if someone won't make a cake, switch bakeries. If these guys can find gay and gay friendly bakeries, so can gay couples. Sometimes I wonder if gays intentionally seek to provoke people who are more conservative. There are enough gay friendly businesses and overall society is tolerant of gays, but they are not happy and it really ticks me off.

a reply to: guitarplayer

Please, please, please try to keep up. The baker in the OP did NOT refuse to bake a cake for the Christian customer. The baker did NOT refuse service to the Christian customer. The baker does not put anti-gay messages on cakes for ANYONE, regardless of your race, religion or sexual orientation. The baker in the OP did not discriminate against anyone.

The Christian baker who refused to make a wedding cake for the gay couple actually DID refuse to bake a cake. The Christian baker was not asked to put anything "gay" on the cake. The Christian baker was simply asked to bake the same kind of wedding cake that he always bakes.

If a Muslim baker only makes Muslim-themed cakes, then it isn't discrimination to refuse to bake a Christian-themed cake, because that's NOT the kind of cake that he always bakes.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: guitarplayer

Please, please, please try to keep up. The baker in the OP did NOT refuse to bake a cake for the Christian customer. The baker did NOT refuse service to the Christian customer. The baker does not put anti-gay messages on cakes for ANYONE, regardless of your race, religion or sexual orientation. The baker in the OP did not discriminate against anyone.

The Christian baker who refused to make a wedding cake for the gay couple actually DID refuse to bake a cake. The Christian baker was not asked to put anything "gay" on the cake. The Christian baker was simply asked to bake the same kind of wedding cake that he always bakes.

If a Muslim baker only makes Muslim-themed cakes, then it isn't discrimination to refuse to bake a Christian-themed cake, because that's NOT the kind of cake that he always bakes.

Do you think the Christian baker who only bakes Christian theme cakes can refuse service to gays and Muslims as you said the Muslim has a right to only bake Muslim theme cakes and refuse service to Christians. Why the double standard? If it is wrong to discriminate then discrimination from gays or Muslims is wrong too.

This lady is freaking ridiculous.
This isn't even close to being refused service based on sexual orientation.

I don't see this going far at all.

originally posted by: guitarplayer

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: guitarplayer

Please, please, please try to keep up. The baker in the OP did NOT refuse to bake a cake for the Christian customer. The baker did NOT refuse service to the Christian customer. The baker does not put anti-gay messages on cakes for ANYONE, regardless of your race, religion or sexual orientation. The baker in the OP did not discriminate against anyone.

The Christian baker who refused to make a wedding cake for the gay couple actually DID refuse to bake a cake. The Christian baker was not asked to put anything "gay" on the cake. The Christian baker was simply asked to bake the same kind of wedding cake that he always bakes.

If a Muslim baker only makes Muslim-themed cakes, then it isn't discrimination to refuse to bake a Christian-themed cake, because that's NOT the kind of cake that he always bakes.

Do you think the Christian baker who only bakes Christian theme cakes can refuse service to gays and Muslims as you said the Muslim has a right to only bake Muslim theme cakes and refuse service to Christians. Why the double standard? If it is wrong to discriminate then discrimination from gays or Muslims is wrong too.

No. The Christian baker who only bakes Christian themed cakes can't refuse service to the gay who asks for a Christian themed cake. If the gay asks for a satanic themed cake, then the Christian baker who only bakes Christian themed cakes can say "I don't bake satanic themed cakes".

The Muslim who bakes only Muslim themed cakes can't refuse service to a Christian who asks for a Muslim themed cake. If a Christian wants a Christian themed cake from the Muslim baker who only bakes Muslim themed cakes, the Muslim baker has the right to say no, because that is not the type of cake he makes.

If a Christian baker makes generic, traditional wedding cakes and a gay couple asks for a generic, traditional wedding cake, then the Christian baker must sell the generic, traditional wedding cake to the gay couple, just like he would sell to the straight couple. If the Christian baker has the policy that they won't decorate a cake with a penis on top (no matter who the customer is), and a gay couple asks for a wedding cake with a penis on top, the Christian baker has the right to say no to the penis decoration.