Black Protesters Storm NYC Restaurants – Target & Harass White People Eating Brunch

a reply to: generik

there is a big problem of police abuse and lack of accountability, yet it has nothing to do with race.

So close there...

There is a big problem of police abuse directed at black people being swept under the rug, under the guise of "it happens to everyone"...

To say it is nothing to do with race, is quite myopic...
If you had said its not always to do with race, I'd have agreed with you fully.


But the current narrative, to disguise the percentage that is racially motivated, with sweeping statements like "everyone's a target no matter the colour"...
Isn't helping...
It's equally as detrimental to Police brutality issues as those who say it's all about racism.

Both are divisive.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: generik

there is a big problem of police abuse and lack of accountability, yet it has nothing to do with race.

So close there...

There is a big problem of police abuse directed at black people being swept under the rug, under the guise of "it happens to everyone"...

To say it is nothing to do with race, is quite myopic...
If you had said its not always to do with race, I'd have agreed with you fully.


But the current narrative, to disguise the percentage that is racially motivated, with sweeping statements like "everyone's a target no matter the colour"...
Isn't helping...
It's equally as detrimental to Police brutality issues as those who say it's all about racism.

Both are divisive.

I think you're partially correct. There IS an issue of police abuse on black folks. But the problem partly comes about as a result of the culture in the black community. This means there are more interactions a higher percentage of black people than other races. This of course, means more opportunities for abuse. The first step I think tackling the problem of police abuse is to have more police accountability. Body cams mandatory, and disabling them resulting in disciplinary action. Next, you tackle the issue of the culture of the black community. A two-sided approach such as this would likely result in a significant drop in the instances of abuse on the black community by LEOs.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: generik

there is a big problem of police abuse and lack of accountability, yet it has nothing to do with race.

So close there...

There is a big problem of police abuse directed at black people being swept under the rug, under the guise of "it happens to everyone"...

To say it is nothing to do with race, is quite myopic...
If you had said its not always to do with race, I'd have agreed with you fully.


But the current narrative, to disguise the percentage that is racially motivated, with sweeping statements like "everyone's a target no matter the colour"...
Isn't helping...
It's equally as detrimental to Police brutality issues as those who say it's all about racism.

Both are divisive.

How can you say they are racially motivated? Simply because a person of color other than white is involved? It isn't like any LEO are out there saying "I did it because he/she was not white". Can it be decisively linked to the officer involved being racist somehow? Or is this thought solely based on the numbers? If numbers, then why are so many whites killed as well? Could I claim racism as well for all the white people that have been killed? There have been multiple instances of black officers (and officers of other races than white) killing blacks.

I also think police brutality is simply reported more often since it is a story, where police non-brutality is not. Sort of like the IS and Ebola stuff that goes on.....reported because it makes news, not because it is happening all over the world in some rampant manner. They are very few and far between when considering the population of LEO in the US. Everyone seems to consider figures for races being affected, but nobody seems to consider the figures for LEO that commit actual crimes versus those that don't. A bit hypocritical and near-sighted in my opinion.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I think you're partially correct. There IS an issue of police abuse on black folks. But the problem partly comes about as a result of the culture in the black community.

So all black people are subject for police abuse because a portion of them engage in behavior that you feel is justified by some stigma you are going to include as black culture?

Something doesn't sounds right here.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Even a poorly constructed thread designed to evoke a certain response can still give birth to some thoughtful discourse.

Even a poorly constructed protest designed to evoke a certain response can still give birth to some thoughtful discourse.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
How can you say they are racially motivated?

Trends come not from individual incidents, but over a longer period of time. The trend says that police interact with black people at a rate that outpaces that of any other ethnic group in our society per capita. With all other things being equal, the underlying factor is race. Now, whether you want to blame black people or cops for the problems, it makes no difference. The problem of racial bigotry is still there.

originally posted by: thesmokingman
So this group of all blacks, segregate themselves, and decide to harass and target white people, because they do not like the fact that blacks have been killed, for committing crimes mind you, and they think this will accomplish exactly what? Is it these random white people trying to enjoy brunch with their families fault that these people have been killed? The only thing they are accomplishing is further fueling a race war, and setting the black movement back 60 years. Im so glad I ALWAYS have a gun on me.

you had me til halfway through your first sentence, blacks killed for committing crimes...hmmm they were not angels but since when is selling single cigarettes and stealing a pack of cigars punishable by death?

then you had me again til this gem, you're glad you ALWAYS have a gun on you? what are you going to do shoot a protester if he interrupts your brunch?

originally posted by: TheArrow

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
I think you're partially correct. There IS an issue of police abuse on black folks. But the problem partly comes about as a result of the culture in the black community.

So all black people are subject for police abuse because a portion of them engage in behavior that you feel is justified by some stigma you are going to include as black culture?

Something doesn't sounds right here.

Strawmanning aside, I never said all black people are subject to police abuse. There IS a culture among especially the poorer black communities that romanticize criminal behaviour. A culture that is so pervasive in the community that if a black youth attempts to rise above the culture they are labelled as "acting white" or ostracized. Just because you don't want to believe the culture exists doesn't mean it's not real. The culture is real, it's talked about AT LENGTH by intellectuals of both races as a problem. Solving the problem of this culture should be a priority, ALONGSIDE more police accountability. That's why I said it's a dual-sided approach.

If more black people as a percentage of their population have interactions with police, it's statistically more likely that abuse will happen. It's that simple. So why not tackle the problem from both sides? Just saying police need to be more accountable while ignoring the problem of the culture won't solve a dang thing.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
Strawmanning aside, I never said all black people are subject to police abuse.

Yes you did.

There IS a culture among especially the poorer black communities that romanticize criminal behaviour. A culture that is so pervasive in the community that if a black youth attempts to rise above the culture they are labelled as "acting white" or ostracized.

Which is why you changed your all encompassing label of "black culture" to the more nuanced approach you have now.

Just because you don't want to believe the culture exists doesn't mean it's not real. The culture is real, it's talked about AT LENGTH by intellectuals of both races as a problem. Solving the problem of this culture should be a priority, ALONGSIDE more police accountability. That's why I said it's a dual-sided approach.

If more black people as a percentage of their population have interactions with police, it's statistically more likely that abuse will happen. It's that simple. So why not tackle the problem from both sides? Just saying police need to be more accountable while ignoring the problem of the culture won't solve a dang thing.

How many American Black people do you run into in your daily life that fit with your above labeling? Where do you get your information? The Media?

originally posted by: TheArrow
originally posted by: LewsTherinThelamon
But, I would also make the argument that--if you voluntarily commit a crime, you are agreeing to the labor you have to perform--because you knew that would be the consequence.

Slavery is okay now because anyone can become one now... Interesting take.

That is a strawman. I argued that it shouldn't be considered slavery because--if you commit a crime knowing the consequence--you are voluntarily giving your consent.

And yes, that law applies to all of us.

Guess which race commits the most crime?

White people.

If that were true, then black males wouldn't represent the highest percentage of people incarcerated.

No, I'm not an idiot, I would fear and resent the Police.

I typically try not to lash-out at the wrong people.

Who are the right people?

The police?

a reply to: TheArrow

Yes you did.

Please quote me where I have said this. My memory must be failing.

Which is why you changed your all encompassing label of "black culture" to the more nuanced approach you have now.

You say "nuanced", I say "clarification".

How many American Black people do you run into in your daily life that fit with your above labeling? Where do you get your information? The Media?

Living in Japan now, I have very little interactions with American Black people. However, about ten years ago, I spent six months living in what could best be described as a ghetto boarding house in the Memphis, Tennessee area. I moved to the area to look for a job while I still unsure about what I wanted to do with my life. Shortly after I moved there, Hurricane Katrina happened, and there was an influx of people from southern Mississippi to Memphis where damage was relatively light. Because of this, I was unable to find any decent living situation so this "boarding house" was pretty much my only option. As you may have already known, Memphis has quite a high percentage of black residents.

My interactions at this house were almost exclusively with American Black folks, and I can say from my own personal experience that the culture does indeed exist and is quite pervasive. Specifically, one of my friends in the house, Dwayne, was trying to get ahead and save money so he could move out of the house, and start a life and get an education. Anytime the issue of his desire to leave his current lot in life came up, the others around him would deride him. Saying things like "we gotta stick together" and "why are you acting so white?" and generally teased and made fun of him.

So yes, I DO have personal experience with this.

I still correspond with Dwayne by the way. He's a welder now living in Cordova, Tennessee. A nicer suburb. He's married now and raising two kids. He's doing quite well for himself, and I'm very thankful he managed to get out of the culture.

But even without my experience, one need only look to leaders of the black community like Bill Cosby (his sexual accusations aside). He has some pretty stunning and common sense assessments of black culture today.

a reply to: macman

I worked with LE from agencies from the whole Phoenix based area and did not witness racism.
I worked with numerous agencies outside of AZ as well and didn't see the racism you and a handful of others state.

You didn't see it, so it must not be happening...

That's logical.

I've seen it here in London numerous times.
So by my logic, I'd be hard pressed to say it doesn't happen Worldwide, including the U.S.

originally posted by: TheArrow

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
How can you say they are racially motivated?

Trends come not from individual incidents, but over a longer period of time. The trend says that police interact with black people at a rate that outpaces that of any other ethnic group in our society per capita. With all other things being equal, the underlying factor is race. Now, whether you want to blame black people or cops for the problems, it makes no difference. The problem of racial bigotry is still there.

There is also a trend for more blacks committing crimes than whites, and no, that is not based on overall numbers, that is based on per capita results.

The number are roughly:

Population in US - White - 223 553 265 : Black - 38 929 319
Arrests in US 2012 by race - White - 6,502,919 : Black - 2,640,067

If you divide the number of white population by the number of black population you get 5.74, meaning there are 5.74 times the number of whites v blacks in the US. So we divide the number of whites arrests in the US by that number as well and you have 1,132,912.7.

If you even the numbers out, blacks are over twice as likely to commit a crime/be arrested. Figures can't be skewed to show total crime, it has to be on equal ground in order to show how many crimes, per capita are committed by whom.

Of course, these figures are solely based on arrests, not crimes in general. So if race is the factor, then I would say that a crime rate over twice as high as any other race is a pretty telling factor.

originally posted by: DancedWithWolves

Your demeanor in this thread has been to label protesters as "jacka!!es" in nearly every other post. Do you normally talk that way when you are happy?

Absolutely. Jackasses is the typical word I use to describe jackasses.

ETA You don't speak like the Masons I know. Sad.

There is, despite the rumors, no Masonic speech monitors. I speak as freely as I choose.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Of course, these figures are solely based on arrests, not crimes in general. So if race is the factor, then I would say that a crime rate over twice as high as any other race is a pretty telling factor.

Yes, it is telling. I don't think its telling what you want it to, however.

Black people are targeted by the State far more often than Whites, with conviction rates higher than Whites, and sentences longer than Whites for the same infractions.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

"Race Baiting" is a term that likes to be thrown about in threads like this. Sometimes incorrectly, as you have pointed out.

So is the term "white guilt"...
Which I think was coined by a Woman who excluded black people in her anti-racism get togethers because it didn't help to fight racism...
Yeah...


To be fair to Jamie1, I don't believe their OP was intended to be a race baiting thread at all, far from it in fact...

However quite a few responses within the thread have been blatant race baiting attempts to generalise the black community.

originally posted by: TheArrow

Oh, honey. You're mad.

Stick to the topic and not your perceived impressions of my demeanor.

a reply to: TheArrow

I agree with you on this point. The convictions handed down to black people are generally more severe than the same crime committed by a white person. This needs to change.

originally posted by: TheArrow

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Of course, these figures are solely based on arrests, not crimes in general. So if race is the factor, then I would say that a crime rate over twice as high as any other race is a pretty telling factor.

Yes, it is telling. I don't think its telling what you want it to, however.

Black people are targeted by the State far more often than Whites, with conviction rates higher than Whites, and sentences longer than Whites for the same infractions.

I showed numbers to back my claims up...can you show anything that states they are targeted more, other than an opinion column?

Either way, even if the conviction rate were higher, the numbers would suggest that whites would have to be arrested 5.74 times more than they are now in order to equal out.....that would be 37,326,755 arrests for whites.

Sentencing and conviction rates, however, have nothing to do with LEO....that is the court.

Fact is, more crime is committed, by over 2 times the amount per capita, by blacks. That is the simple reason more are convicted. It's a numbers thing.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
You say "nuanced", I say "clarification".

When your post goes from targeting all black people with an umbrella term like "black culture", to a much more pointed in grouping, yeah, that's the definition of nuanced.

Living in Japan now, I have very little interactions with American Black people. However, about ten years ago, I spent six months living in what could best be described as a ghetto boarding house in the Memphis, Tennessee area. I moved to the area to look for a job while I still unsure about what I wanted to do with my life. Shortly after I moved there, Hurricane Katrina happened, and there was an influx of people from southern Mississippi to Memphis where damage was relatively light. Because of this, I was unable to find any decent living situation so this "boarding house" was pretty much my only option. As you may have already known, Memphis has quite a high percentage of black residents.

So, you judge your dealings on the goings on of a group of people displaced by a natural disaster, and one person trying to get ahead and his friends teasing him?

Not a very strong stance, but whatever.