Senate CIA Torture Report Released: "Mismanaged Dungeons"

All hail the Government officials who don't lie, cover anything up, or kill innocents. Hail !!! Hail the land of the just and free that reject anti nazi resolutions because they infringe on the right to free speech...hail !!!!

Perhaps they lied about waterboarding and such...but surely they would never lie about something as big as 9/11 or JFK for instance.

Worth a note...to all you official word supporters.

How many people that were involved in this came out publicly and admitted this ? And how many knew ?

from the OP:

“Strongly urge that any speculative language as to the legality of given activities or, more precisely, judgment calls as to their legality vis-à-vis operational guidelines for this activity agreed upon and vetted at the most senior levels of the agency, be refrained from in written traffic (email or cable traffic),” wrote Jose A. Rodriguez Jr., then the head of the C.I.A.'s Counterterrorism Center.

“Such language is not helpful.”

there is a little manual in this quote, on how to keep things from the public. Remember that when you scream "they could not keep this hidden" or "why no one blew the whistle".

I am disgusted...and not shocked at all. We all knew long ago that this was happening. But, feeble minds need confirmation from the POTUS to believe it. It's all a conspiracy...until it comes out.

In its response to the Senate report, the C.I.A. said that to accept the committee’s conclusions, “there would have had to have been a years long conspiracy among C.I.A. leaders at all levels, supported by a large number of analysts and other line officers.”

and...here we have...the Senate now being accused of being conspiracy believers. As everyone knows...only knuckleheads believe in conspiracies.

GO back to sleep people...it's ok now. The bad guys have been caught...and attrocies like this will never happen again. The CIA officials will make sure of that:

“As an agency, we have learned from these mistakes, which is why my predecessors and I have implemented various remedial measures over the years to address institutional deficiencies,” Mr. Brennan said.

And you know you can trust the official to tell you the truth.

originally posted by: whyamIhere
To be completely honest on Sept. 12, 2001

I would not of cared what they did to the People that attacked us.

This just went way beyond the People that attacked us.

I see in hindsight, that we can't act like that.

I do not condone the interrogation methods used; frankly they make me nauseated.

But...the other countries that are pointing the finger at us now...they too participate in torture methods that should not be happening. While pointing the finger at the U.S. they should clean up their own backyards.

originally posted by: caladonea

originally posted by: whyamIhere
To be completely honest on Sept. 12, 2001

I would not of cared what they did to the People that attacked us.

This just went way beyond the People that attacked us.

I see in hindsight, that we can't act like that.

I do not condone the interrogation methods used; frankly they make me nauseated.

But...the other countries that are pointing the finger at us now...they too participate in torture methods that should not be happening. While pointing the finger at the U.S. they should clean up their own backyards.

Other countries use torture as a tool of political repression. "Behave, or you'll end up in a dungeon, having bits pulled off you until you look like the corpse of Gollum. We won't tell you twice." The CIA used torture because some moron higher up the chain of command was persuaded that modern torture, sorry "enhanced interrogation techniques", could be used to extract meaningful intelligence from terrorist suspects. There's a problem with that: it doesn't work. The CIA has stated this in the past. Why it decided that it would be different this time is something of a mystery, other then perhaps in the post 9-11 panic someone got desperate. People being tortured will tell you anything in order to make it stop. They'll make stuff up if need be. They'll confess to the most absurd things. Torture is not a reliable form of interrogation. Cheney can disagree all he likes and rename torture into whatever salves whatever sliver remains of his conscience - but that still doesn't change the facts that exactly 0% meaningful intelligence was extracted and that not a single plot was uncovered, thwarted or stopped at the proverbial last second by a heroic Jack Bauer look-alike as the result of torture.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: whyamIhere

You're still taking it for granted that torture is an effective interrogation technique. It's not. It doesn't work. It has never worked. Life isn't an episode of '24'.

We are dealing with a pretty serious national taboo, as such the ego will protect it at all cost. Which consequently is how they get away with it.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Thank you for the additional information. "Food for thought". I will think about what you have said.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: whyamIhere

You're still taking it for granted that torture is an effective interrogation technique. It's not. It doesn't work. It has never worked. Life isn't an episode of '24'.

We are dealing with a pretty serious national taboo, as such the ego will protect it at all cost. Which consequently is how they get away with it.

Seeing idiots like that Faux News anchor lose her rag and scream that the USA doesn't torture because it's "Awesome!" doesn't help either. Morons like that make me despair.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Here's my question in all of this.

Didn't Obama promise to end this asap, as a campaign promise?

And if so, why did he wait until he was a lame duck president to do so?

This one slays me: "Bush Team Approved CIA Tactics, but Was Kept in Dark on Details, Report Says"

You know who else is kept in the dark about details? Probably about 99% of the people ever tortured.

Plausible deniability. Compartmentalization. Not exactly tactics only we're brilliant enough to use.

What sucks is that we're going to reap what we sowed for generations.

originally posted by: Realtruth
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Here's my question in all of this.

Didn't Obama promise to end this asap, as a campaign promise?

And if so, why did he wait until he was a lame duck president to do so?

Because he is a political opportunist.

Its typical dirty politics.


But that should not detract from the issue and turn crimes against humanity into another stupid left/right debate or bash 0bama thread.

originally posted by: Realtruth
a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Here's my question in all of this.

Didn't Obama promise to end this asap, as a campaign promise?

And if so, why did he wait until he was a lame duck president to do so?

He did end it, as soon as he came in, via executive order. What the CIA had been up to under the previous administration then became a particularly controversial political football, with matters of national security being waved in people's faces. The CIA has never liked telling the world how it works and it really, really didn't want to admit to this squalid little PR disaster, so they've been fighting this investigation for years. The Senate Intelligence Committee has been looking at this for years. The CIA has been blocking it/ hacking it / complaining about it for years, hence the delay in the report. The practices themselves have long since been discontinued. And this is just the summary of the full report. Who knows what's lurking at the bottom of the silt down there?

a reply to: crazyewok


This is why the courts will not come down on the cops because when the SHTF, they want to be protected. If they bash the cops, the cops just might forget, or delay to get to their house.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Really that happened? I missed that one, I'll have to look for that on youtube later.

But that aside it's getting crazy, and the ride isn't even over yet. It's an interesting time to be in the US right now. Not really a great time but interesting at least. With all the problems being thrown around and things coming out someone, something or group/groups is going to take the blame for it. If one does not I'll be even more surprised.

How many bullets can be dodge be for you luck runs out.

So, these terrorists are willing to blow up Americans, Brits, or any one else that doesn't believe what they do. They will torture their own women. Treat women like they are property. They will be-head people. They launched attacks on American soil and in many other countries. They don't care how they treat people. They strap bombs to people. They kill innocent children. Not only do they kill children, they be-head them and display their bodies. The list goes on and on. I don't always agree with the government, as a matter of fact, most of the time I don't agree with the government. But.... people want the government, the military, to protect us. What are they supposed to do when they capture a high level al-Qaeda operative? Kiss him on the cheek and say please tell us why you feel they way you feel? It's not nice to hurt people?
You people need to wake up to reality. Being nice is not going to stop them from killing us. Anything we have done is nothing compared to what they would / will do to us.

a reply to: gibsonb

You need to wake up to the reality that as much as you might like to cast away all honor and do horrific things to another human being, the real bummer in your thinking is this: Torture doesn't work. It doesn't produce reliable results.

And yes, terrorists are horrible pieces of sh*t, but I'm sorry to tell you, we can't go breaking international law and become war criminals.

a reply to: gibsonb

Except that interrogation via torture does not work. The CIA said that it does not work. Everyone says that it does not work, with the possible exception of Darth Cheney, who can't admit that he might have been wrong about this! If you torture someone they'll tell you anything at all, including making stuff up, to stop it. It's not a reliable form of interrogation.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: whyamIhere

You're still taking it for granted that torture is an effective interrogation technique. It's not. It doesn't work. It has never worked. Life isn't an episode of '24'.

So flying drones in the middle of the night killing 1000's.

Is somehow OK with people.

I guess torture is worse than death from above.

I see hypocrites...

originally posted by: whyamIhere


So flying drones in the middle of the night killing 1000's.

Is somehow OK with people.

I missed that? Where were drone strikes championed in this thread?


Please provide the post where people promoted drone strikes?

originally posted by: whyamIhere


I guess torture is worse than death from above.

I see hypocrites...

Strange those seem to be the only two choices?

By the CIA's own, obviously conservative estimates, over 20% of those tortured were innocent people.

Your premise seems to demand that innocent people are obligated to make the binary choice between torture or drone strikes?

Your logic is lost on me.

a reply to: whyamIhere

So flying drones in the middle of the night killing 1000's. Is somehow OK with people. I guess torture is worse than death from above. I see hypocrites...

It's all wrong

If you can't come out an say that torture is wrong - as a stand alone statement - without pointing fingers at others, then I have to ask - what do you stand for?

Doesn't matter who did it, who covered it up, however they want to justify it - wrong is wrong

This is our country - and we torture people

No different from Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler - Assad, Kim Jong Un...the list goes on

originally posted by: whyamIhere

Do you think they care...

They did much more than Waterboarding...

They stuffed one detainee in a coffin for 300+ hours...

They kidnapped one detainee's mentally handicapped brother and "interrogated" him for the "sole purpose" of getting the detainee to talk...that detainee ended up being an innocent civilian BTW.

They hung people in painful positions for days at a time.

Beatings...anal penetration...ad infinium...

Thier program was so indiscriminate that at least 2 of the people that they kidnapped were actually CIA informants, working for them....and over 20%, by their own accounting, had no knowledge of anything relevant...aka...some other guy they tortured mumbled a name while delirious or simply knew some other guy or woman...lets torture them too.

When they wanted Muammar Gaddafi's help in the war on terror...at his request, the CIA found and "renditioned" one of Muammar Gaddafi's political critics hiding in China...they kidnapped him...and his wife and family..including a 12 year old girl...and flew them to Libya and delivered them to Muammar Gaddafi, where the family was imprisoned and the father tortured for years until Gaddafi was overthrown.

All of that before we even examine the painful truth that TORTURE DOES NOT WORK...as every experienced psychologist and professional interrogator was screaming at the time.

The torture program was a product of this guy..He DESIGNED AND IMPLEMENTED THE PROGRAM...former SERE...how to survive torture...who reverse engineered Viet Nam and Korea's torture methods..

Mitchell had never conducted an interrogation, had no training as an interrogator, had no expertise in al Qaeda and no familiarity with the organization, did not speak Arabic and had no training in radical Islam. Mitchell nonetheless said he could design and implement an interrogation plan for alleged al Qaeda suspects.[3]

en.wikipedia.org...

False intelligence derived from these torture methods helped convince the Bush Admin to Invade Iraq...a war that cost nearly 5000 American lives..

So yah...ef the CIA's rendition program...It COST thousands of lives..Both American and Non-American...and foiled a grand total of ZERO plots...while at the same time making the world hate us and profoundly staining the dignity of the greatest nation on earth....ef these guys every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: whyamIhere


So flying drones in the middle of the night killing 1000's.

Is somehow OK with people.

I missed that? Where were drone strikes championed in this thread?


Please provide the post where people promoted drone strikes?

originally posted by: whyamIhere


I guess torture is worse than death from above.

I see hypocrites...

Strange those seem to be the only two choices?

By the CIA's own, obviously conservative estimates, over 20% of those tortured were innocent people.

Your premise seems to demand that innocent people are obligated to make the binary choice between torture or drone strikes?

Your logic is lost on me.

Drones where conviently ignored in this thread.

Innocent women and children by the 100's have been Droned.

We do need to make a choice.

We need to be honest with ourselves.