QUESTION to ALL Atheists!

originally posted by: TechUnique
Evil scientists don't commit genocide without being.. evil.

God is responsible for numerous genocides in the Old Testament.

Rape, murder, and slavery as well. Oh and human sacrifice.

Doesn't it bother you that God would ever condone those things?

Woodcarver commented: "basically you just make up your own religion as you see fit."

I have to agree with him. Here's why (correct me if I'm wrong):

You seem to pick and choose what is relevant in the Bible and what isn't, based on spiritual discernment.

originally posted by: TechUnique
Like I said. The truth has been perverted so that it is a misrepresentation of the truth. My proof is personal proof coupled with the truth of the Bible. You can get past all of the deception you just need discernment. I'm not talking about logical discernment I'm talking about spiritual discernment.

What I gather from this statement and maybe a couple others is that you use spiritual discernment to figure out what parts of the Bible are true versus the parts that have been perverted or misrepresented in some way. So the question that's raised in my mind is this. How is that any different than the numerous other people, past and present who have done the exact same thing. It's that supposed divine discernment they all feel that has lead to all the denominations and differing doctrines. They all feel God speaking to them.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

originally posted by: TechUnique
He created you, do you not stand for that?

I don't care. He's the ultimate A-Hole.

I'm a double-edged atheist. First, I have no supernatural beliefs. Second, if proven wrong, I'm so morally against what the "Christian God" has done (according to the Bible), I would reject it.

Haha. Double edged atheist. I couldn't agree more.

If the god of the bible did show up, i don't think any christian i know would live up to the insane standard put forth in the bible.

And then you get folks like the OP, who just make up whatever god they would like to submit too. This seems to be a growing trend and i think it is indicative of the fall of organized religion. However... The only thing worse than organized religion is thousands of un organized religions.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

Funny thing is most of the Missionary sorts who come after me assume the word "Pagan" means "hippy pacifist".... I train in Military unarmed combat, know how to shoot, and have worked security as an undergrad .... I'm not a soft target

For me if a godly overlord were to reveal himself to me and do the question and answer session with me to where he could justify being the ultimate a-hole for some reason that is beyond me I think I could get past it. There would have to be a damn good reason for it all.

Going back to the OP asking what would convince me that he/she/it is real I would think an all knowing deity would know exactly what could convince me and everyone else on the planet which can only mean if such a being existed he/she/it doesn't want everyone to believe.

I thought on it a little more as far as burden of proof to convince me and something that definitely work for me is if that deity gave me his powers for a while. I would spend that time fixing all the things it screwed up. Which with the described powers in the bible could be instantaneous. I had a thread some time back that played wit that idea to an extent where if you could how would you redesign humanity working with known animal traits that already exist. It was a fun thread.

Thinking about it though if I could change one thing about humanity I would make everyone empathic. I think that would put an end to so much suffering if everyone could feel/understand others to the point where if you hurt someone it hurt you or help someone you felt what they felt. That is such a simple concept. I think that would be a great species.

a reply to: Prezbo369

I didnt need convincing...as you would.

a reply to: TechUnique

No this thread was for atheist, but there is a big philosophical problem with your question.

What would be proof of God existing for you?

Proof presupposes that humans are capable of knowing objective Truth. Proof presupposes the principle of uniformity in nature. Proof presupposes the laws of logic are universal and absolute. Without a logical foundation for these presuppositions a person cannot have any knowledge but can only have belief.

So my question for you or for atheist is how do you know justify these three presuppositions based on your world view? How much can you know and with how much certainty? How certain are you every time you touch fire you will burn?

Agnostics unfortunately I am going to give you a bit of a hard time because neutrality is a myth. Every person has a world view, an overall perspective from which you see and interpret the world.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

How about those of us who are polytheistic. Also agnosticism is admitting "I do not know" not "I am neutral in this".

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Agnostics unfortunately I am going to give you a bit of a hard time because neutrality is a myth

The Swedes and the Swiss would disagree with you.

I disagree with you.

There is always middle ground but you seem to want to stay at one extreme or another.

P

a reply to: TechUnique

How many threads have we seen asking the same damn question? Let me ask you this OP, why are you so concerned about what the atheists regards as "acceptable" proof for God? Are you seeking approval from the reprobate? Is it to validate your belief in God? I often question those ask atheists these questions just how strong their faith in God really is. It probably isn't that strong in the first place, although I could be wrong.

a reply to: Noinden

None of that information is pertinent to the thread kid.

Actually, it is. He tells us he's 22 years old and was a heavy drug user for several years.

I would call that pertinent. It explains everything.

a reply to: BlackManINC

He probably ask these questions because he loves you, and wants to try and show you that God is there.

a reply to: Astyanax

You are right and I stand corrected. Nothing beyond that is pertinent Not what he claims to do for a living or what he earns.

a reply to: Noinden

How about those of us who are polytheistic. Also agnosticism is admitting "I do not know" not "I am neutral in this".

Polytheistic and monotheistic world views would need a logical foundation for the three presuppositions just as well. "I don't know" and "neutrality" are the same thing. For example, if I ask "Does God exist?" and someone answers, "I don't know" that is equivalent to neither yes or no(neutrality). However, in reality everyone has a belief and base there world view around that belief.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Noinden

None of that information is pertinent to the thread kid.

Actually, it is. He tells us he's 22 years old and was a heavy drug user for several years.

I would call that pertinent. It explains everything.

I think he got brain damage and hallucinated God. Many fundamentalists got their start with a "vision".

Or maybe he got indoctrinated at a Christian based rehab like so many do.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Ok fair enough on the mono vs poly issue. However agnosticism is an honest statement by them. Honestly should never be punished

a reply to: Noinden

Technically an agnostic is an atheist.

Neither believe in a God one is just more open to the possibility.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

More one is undecided and the other has indeed decided. I still don't equate any of the stances possible as neutral. I've made my mind up, though I also don't believe in there being a supreme being, rather a group of higher beings, who are not omni anything

a reply to: Noinden

Fair enough. Sounds reasonable enough to me!

Your position is very interesting to me. Is there a particular group of Gods/Goddesses you prefer over the others and do you believe all (or most) of the various claimed Gods/Goddesses exist?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I indeed have a prefered group. The Tuatha de Dannan of the Irish culture are where I place my loyalty. I'm particularly loyal to three, An Dagda, Lug and An Morrigan.

I refer to myself as a Draí (Druid) though that is not a strictly accurate term in the historical sense. Though my higher education certainly makes me a member of the intellectual caste My family and martial arts training would place me more in the warrior caste. Which is probably why we don't do the caste thing these days.

I am what they call a hard polytheist. All deities exist. All are unique, and none are supreme. Thus Jehovah does indeed exist. He's not on my radar however (and I got to suffer a Presbyterian high school).

a reply to: Noinden

Neutrality isn't honest or dishonest is a claim of nothingness. Agnosticism is a claim of neutrality there is no way around that, but obviously these people still have a world view. That world view is based on I don't know. Its based on there is a God/gods or there is not a God.