QUESTION to ALL Atheists!

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: TechUnique

Not an atheist....but if God as you say walked into the room...right away they won't accept its Him anyway so.....? That wouldn't happen

Depends on his entrance.

If he just merely entered the room like a regular guy then why the H would anyone believe his extraordinary claims?

Was this how easily you were convinced?

originally posted by: pheonix358
By using pure definitions, God is an extra terrestrial, an Alien if you will.



It is going to be damn hard to separate God from an alien.



200 years ago, a high powered torch may have been enough.



Now, I don't know. Materializing in a lounge room may just engender a Wow response from Sci Fi fans as they relate it to a transporter beam. Floating in the air may just be an anti gravity device and the same with walking on water.



Then God has to get passed the millions who would be looking for CGI or Holographic projectors.



The Holo Deck from Star Trek is hard to beat.



Even just 'knowing' could be viewed as advanced telepathy.



Right now, the vast majority of 'miracles' could be accomplished with modern technology.



Now after all those problems, we have to discern God from the anti-Christ and that in itself is a conundrum.



How do we poor fools know which is which.



It is going to be a hard sell.



A trip on a space ship would do it for me I think. But then he would be an Alien named God.



P

I think the movie paul answers many of your questions. likely the paul in the bible is the same. As far as star trek goes yes those places exist but at a price of sacrifice from us. Those matter generators do not defy what we have learned so far with science. Everything is connected to another. When something is brought into existance there has to be a siular connected to it and that comes from our labor here. They live on our backs when they bypass the suffering. If they are not aware of this it creates a sense of false superiority for them to look down on others.

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: TechUnique

I'd ask him why he made foreskin only to demand we cut it off.

LOL. Genital mutilation is another perverse additive to religion. Note how I said additive. Religion is perverse itself. I am going to say something that will make your ears bleed but it's true.

I'm not PART of a religion, I may be religious... but I do not subscribe to man made religion. The bible is not man made religion it is written THROUGH MAN, BY GOD.

You have to realize the difference.

So basically you just make up your own religion as you see fit. And your version of god sent crack heads and car crashes to intimidate you into believing in him? I guess that sounds about right?

God divying out traumatic experiences to the people he loves so they don't forget to thank him.

a reply to: Woodcarver

How do you jump to these conclusions? You literally just assume. Anyone can assume. I don't 'assume' that God exists I know he exists. Do you assume that you yourself exist or do you know?

You know because you think therefore you are. I know God exists because he has shown me stuff and done stuff that goes beyond any reasonable explanation. You are going to ask me what these things are but why should I even bother telling you? You wouldn't believe me and would accuse me of lying so what's the point?

You will never believe. You'd sooner believe an artificial intelligence and what it tells you than what God tells you. In fact I am pretty certain that if faced between the 2,

1. Eternal life with God sin free.
2. Eternal life plugged into a machine.

You would most likely choose the machine. That way you could be your own God.

a reply to: TechUnique

TechUnique - well done.

Re: teeth to those who wondered: we were made as perfect spiritual beings with bodies. We walked with God. At the fall, i.e.: apple event God banished us from the Garden. Our bodies became flesh. At that point decay came into our existence. The earth and everything in it has been in a steadily increasing stage of decay, from depleted soil to new diseases emerging in both humans and animals. Man used to live 150+ years. Now 75 or so is the average. Genetic diseases and weaknesses are rampant. So yes teeth don't last. Of course sugar and carbs add to poor dental health.

The fall of Satan was due to his pride. He wanted to be like God. We are the same. We have egos as humans. We must humble ourselves before God our maker and get to know Jesus in order to get to know God the Father.

Where did God come from? Personally I don't care as He created me. I am just a human with a human brain that only knows of my own earthly experience. I have a great imagination but even that can only go so far. God is outside my ability to understand His entirety. And so I can believe He was there before anything else was created. I can just accept that.

If one believes in the big bang then you must also argue where did anything that caused the big bang come from. Something must have created it as well. Or did space matter simply exist? Did an amoeba simply just exist? I find it easier to believe a majestic God existed that created everything from Him than something just existing.

Satan is very real and he is copying God and has been trying to destroy the human race since the start of time. He tried to prevent Jesus' birth, he has been playing with human DNA (i.e.: scientists, extra terrestrials) so that he can destroy mankind. He wants us to perish. Whether you believe in an actual lake of fire or if you believe Hell is simply being cut off from God once our earthly time is over it still means you won't be part of God. And when our time comes to stand in front of God we will know the preciousness of being with Him.

People's hearts are hardened because they want to hear what pleases their ears, their own wants. Not even a need. I see this in Christian circles. We have to let go of anger and trying to always win or be right. Does it really matter?

Until one has their own personal spiritual moment they can only scoff or dismiss it. I suppose if one isn't a believer, say an atheist or agnostic or any other term people like to call themselves that is fine. But the level of anger and scoffing that comes through is it really necessary? There were a few posters on here that were decent to the OP.

I admire unbelievers who find strength within themselves and don't need to anyone to walk hand in hand with. Myself I find it comforting to know within myself that I have a creator who calls himself my father, and a Savior who came down to earth to create a way to bridge the gap from myself to my Father. Who lived on earth as a man not operating with the power of a God but humanly resisted temptation. He lived as we did, experiencing all we did but was able to stand true and pure through it all. And He left us with a comforter who lives within every believer (Holy Spirit) - that works through us to overcome all evil and temptation.

The Bible is like a letter from our Father for us believers. We have the Holy Spirit within us helping us discern the words and to live with love in our hearts and putting Jesus first and foremost. But it doesn't make us automatic perfect robots. God reveals to us things in His time. For instance I do pray that I understand His word and over time I learn more and put the pieces together. But I don't know everything. And yes, I am sure man has twisted words along the way. But it is the only manual we have to go by.

If you wish to dig into history the pieces will start to make sense and even as a non believer one can see that there most likely was a Jesus. But it may not be enough to truly believe. Sure there are records that seem to predate the Bible with same type events. But with Satan always trying to be one step ahead of God that's inevitable. The devil creates confusion and doubt. And so are all the other things that seem to discredit God. Unfortunately churches have been infiltrated as well. There are a huge number of pastors, ministers who don't even believe themselves any more. How can you perform surgery if you didn't finish medical school or decide along the way that your homemade paste of backyard ingredients work better than antibiotics without any valid proof? Christians have stopped living with Jesus as their best friend and they act with hate and selfishness and they put down other Christians. The thing is that we should love each other always put others before ourselves and we Christians should be doing that with all unbelievers. Our every action, word and thought are examples of who we believe in.

Unfortunately Satan has infiltrated our lives in every way, through every sense. What used to be unthinkable is now common and infiltrating every sense - the atrocities we see every day damages us. We have become so desensitized and unloving to each other and the earth. We have everything we could want. So why would people need God? They can do just fine without Him.

All the pieces will come together as prophecy unfolds. When the tribulation begins many will finally understand. That just might be the time that unbelievers start putting two and two together. But even then there will be people who will simply refuse to believe. Jesus is coming back and when He arrives every knee will bow. I don't say this to put anyone down but every heart will know without doubt that He is real.

Each person's "proof" of God boils down to their own personal moment. So until others have such same proof they can only go by other people's words. But one day we will all have proof. Every eye will see, every ear will hear.

I suppose this hasn't answered much for anyone but it's my two bits on it and my showing of support for TechUnique. I think a lot of us believers have backed off a lot on supporting each other on these threads due to the blast of "attacks" and demands for proof. Sometimes all we can do is say our piece and just let it be. We operate on faith and we look forward to a day of oneness with God and a perfect heaven. This heaven won't be a place where we go to eat and lay around all day and meet with virgins. It will be reunited with our maker and existing in His love, peace and having no more tears or pains. That is all I want. Anything that comes with it is a bonus. But I am tired of existing in a world of hate, fear and anguish for all the pain and brutality inflicted on all living things. This isn't how it was supposed to be. We had it once, and God walked with us. He made us to hang with us. Imagine a God creating humans so He could walk and talk amongst and with us. He just wanted friends is the simplest way I can put it.

a reply to: ccseagull

the dacay you mention is tied directly to knowledge and learning. That does not mean they were dumb but they lacked the ability to want.

eta excellent post

a reply to: ccseagull

Thanks for your post, was very refreshing to read!
God bless x

a reply to: TechUnique

The bible is serious

The Bible is serious all right. Seriously flawed.

Evidence that Jesus was Married

Nevertheless, if God himself appears to me, in a way that I can see and hear while I'm awake, then sure, I'll say 'woops! Shows what I know!!'

Nothing less will convince me. Now - as for spirits and unseen entities around us? Yes, you bet. I've had my own experiences that assure me that some unseen forces are around us at all times.

a reply to: ccseagull

Satan is very real and he is copying God and has been trying to destroy the human race since the start of time. He tried to prevent Jesus' birth, he has been playing with human DNA (i.e.: scientists, extra terrestrials) so that he can destroy mankind.

Satan is a myth.

Are you saying that you actually believe that "Satan" is possessing scientists? Wow.
You did get it right when you said "God is above my ability to understand."

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: WhiteAlice

originally posted by: TechUnique

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: TechUnique

ROFL!

i get this image in my head of a man....red..sweat-soaked face.....with a vein popping out of his forehead...the rage and disbelief is palpable.....

so you ask what we would need, to be convinced of the existence of a supreme being....and then when we foolishly believe you are genuine in your desire for actual conversation, we tell you...you turn around, and ridicule us..

jesus christ, you are one of the biggest trolls i have ever seen here...

"ROFL!

i get this image in my head of a man....red..sweat-soaked face.....with a vein popping out of his forehead...the rage and disbelief is palpable....."

Come on now, if I was trolling you I wouldn't be red in the face. Furthermore that comment you made is more akin to trolling than anything I have said.

Nah, I think that Daedalus' description of events is pretty spot on, especially this part:

so you ask what we would need, to be convinced of the existence of a supreme being....and then when we foolishly believe you are genuine in your desire for actual conversation, we tell you...you turn around, and ridicule us..

That is a very apt description here from my point of view. I think I'd also add that you might have discovered that you just bit off more than you could chew and that's probably why you're taking a derogatory tone with all of us troublesome non-believers. Principle of charity really in that maybe you were being genuine but it just went bad for you.

I disagree on so many levels. The funny thing is, people who are at least agnostic or have a faith other than in Christ, can see that you guys are the ones being jerks in these threads.

Yet you all say I'm the one being horrible. Of course you all agree with each other because you're all peas in a pod. I'm the outcast, that's the difference.

What's this? Appealing to an unseen or unheard audience for positive judgment on oneself and their actions? How am I not surprised? LMAO

You guys are trapped in a logic cycle based on lies and deceit. Satan has done a tremendous job of making people ungodly.

Oh that dirty 5 letter word called logic. I think that, should you have met me in person, your opinions would be quite different. Ungodly is such a maligned word. A lack of belief or differing belief has never meant a lack of goodness. See the Good Samaritan in your bible.

On to Plato's cave (kind of funny that you're using a Pagan now to defend your beliefs, btw): Socrates, via Plato, was hypothesizing about the actions of a group of people who had spent their lifetimes in a cave and were suddenly released into the world and their actions thereafter. The thing about this particular allegory is that what it is discussing is the limits of knowledge when one simply lives and looks in one way. If a blank wall in a dark cave is all one sees, then that is what one perceives the world to be comprised of. However, stepping out of one's comfort zone and out of the cave, expands the prisoner's view of the world and all it entails.

I can see how you'd use this particular allegory to appeal to your own beliefs as it talks about light and dark and you seem pretty hung up on Satan and whatnot. However, Socrates is quite specific in this allegory in that it is an allegory for the ascent of the soul into the intellectual world. The divinity that Socrates speaks of is the pondering of greater philosophical questions, logic and rationality and the growth of that spark within us all--consciousness.

This thread is a warning of what happens when you feed a troll. This is the last thread of his that I engage in.

He's a compete Christian fundamentalist. He won't give an inch on anything. His mindset, created during his period of massive drug use, is now locked in. He has lost any ability to use his brain except to further deepen his beliefs. One wonders if the constant use of drugs adversely affected his capacities.

I encourage any of the atheists, agnostics, and non-fundamentalist religious folk to ignore his future threads. Let him and the other fundamentalists have their circle jerks in peace. They feed on opposition. It validates their broken existence.

originally posted by: TechUnique
a reply to: WhiteAlice

The 10 commandments didn't work did they? People didn't listen. Jesus being sent down was another chance. The end times being written down and coming to fruition in front of your very eyes is another chance. Me talking to you now is another chance and you will get many more before your time is up.

So let me get this right--what you're saying here is that the Ten Commandments, purported to be the Word of God, didn't work? Uhhh, I thought he was supposed to be all-powerful and etc and yet, his simple rules didn't work. Huh. So God basically created a loophole so that people who broke the 10 Commandments had a second chance. Why does God need a loophole? He's God, right? Was he just not getting enough souls in Heaven? And really, you can't blame any Satan for that because God himself called Satan to his side to test Job for whatever reason simply because Satan questioned the authenticity of Job's belief. Why does God even give a crap about what Satan believes? If God is God then God can look into Job and be assured. Satan is supposed to be a lesser being to God and something that God himself created. He could just smoke Satan's butt because the covenant that he made was with man--not Satan or any other angels.

Now I'm sure that you're going to say that Satan is here on earth to test us all in our faith. However, why does God need Satan at all if all he needs to do is to look into our hearts? The guy is supposed to be omniscient after all.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ccseagull

Satan is very real and he is copying God and has been trying to destroy the human race since the start of time. He tried to prevent Jesus' birth, he has been playing with human DNA (i.e.: scientists, extra terrestrials) so that he can destroy mankind.

Satan is a myth.

Are you saying that you actually believe that "Satan" is possessing scientists? Wow.
You did get it right when you said "God is above my ability to understand."

Evil scientists don't commit genocide without being.. evil. Possession is real and you all think people bomb babies because of money.

Do you think the elite conduct human sacrifice for money?

No. It's evil..

originally posted by: tavi45
This thread is a warning of what happens when you feed a troll. This is the last thread of his that I engage in.

He's a compete Christian fundamentalist. He won't give an inch on anything. His mindset, created during his period of massive drug use, is now locked in. He has lost any ability to use his brain except to further deepen his beliefs. One wonders if the constant use of drugs adversely affected his capacities.

I encourage any of the atheists, agnostics, and non-fundamentalist religious folk to ignore his future threads. Let him and the other fundamentalists have their circle jerks in peace. They feed on opposition. It validates their broken existence.

Agreed. Didn't see this crop up til I posted my last post so chiming in my agreement for all to see. This individual basically came to the forum, proposed a hypothetical situation in which God would pop up and perform a miracle before us, requested no hate in the thread and etc. However, when confronted with the reality that it would take more than God appearing and performing a miracle for us to believe without even adding in the extra facet of worshipping him, this individual somehow thought that proselytizing to us would convert those who were the most difficult to convert via words alone.

We made it extraordinarily clear that we would need a substantial burden of proof and he gave us words and ridicule in exchange as an attempt to convert. That's pretty dumb and it is precisely individuals like this that make it so that our noses twitch when someone wants to discuss the topic of faith with us. Whether he is a troll or someone who can't see past his own nose to see his own innate fallacies is up to question. However, what is abundantly clear is that he met a demand for a burden of proof with words and failed miserably with us. No great surprise.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

I just will never understand that sort of mind set. There are millions of perfectly sane people who are also religious. Yet the loudest ones are the kooks, the loons, the trolls. Those who feel their deity has asked them to go forth and be obnoxious. As a Neopagan I constantly get these individual;s seeing me as a challenge to "convert". As a scientist I constantly get challenged that my career is really a religion.

When I counter thant, its me picking on them. When they do it its different.

originally posted by: tavi45
This thread is a warning of what happens when you feed a troll. This is the last thread of his that I engage in.

He's a compete Christian fundamentalist. He won't give an inch on anything. His mindset, created during his period of massive drug use, is now locked in. He has lost any ability to use his brain except to further deepen his beliefs. One wonders if the constant use of drugs adversely affected his capacities.

I encourage any of the atheists, agnostics, and non-fundamentalist religious folk to ignore his future threads. Let him and the other fundamentalists have their circle jerks in peace. They feed on opposition. It validates their broken existence.

1. I stopped taking drugs way before I became a Christian.
2. Lost my ability to use my brain? I'm 22 and I'm running a successful business which I started with no upfront costs. It takes me about 20 hours work a week and makes me enough to live on and pursue my own dreams. If you saw the website I have built this week and all of the other stuff that goes into setting up an independent media outlet and how fast I'm making it a reality you wouldn't say that I'm braindead.

The fact of the matter is, Being a Christian doesn't restrict you intellectually in any way. Being a stupid Christian does, same as being a stupid anything or anyone. Being religious and being stupid aren't synonymous. But in saying that, they often go hand in hand.

To be honest I found your post incredibly offensive. You don't know anything about what I'm capable of mentally. You have this notion in your head that you're better than me because you subscribe to a science you believe to be irrefutable and because I have a faith you cannot understand.

I so wish you could understand.. I don't even care that you think I'm stupid. I KNOW I'm not stupid, otherwise I wouldn't be so successful in such troubling economic times. I'm 22 years old and I've got more talents than you can imagine so do yourself a favor and don't jump to assumptions over the internet with no real basis for your arguments.

What are you gonna call me a criminal next? I don't hide the fact that I used to be a criminal. I have mentioned it before on ATS. I used to be a horrible person. I used to lie, cheat, steal and take advantage of my friends. I did really horrible stuff to myself and the people around me.

I was lost for so long but then I started praying to God. I knew God existed but I resented him for my life. I didn't really know who God was though I always completely distrusted Christianity. Anyway, I prayed. Managed to take myself out of some bad circles and stop taking drugs. I really sorted myself out but I still wasn't alright until I REALLY committed to the real one true God. I have been through so much you would not believe. I am not crazy, I am not stupid and I am not a troll. I don't think I'm better than you but you obviously think you're better than me and to top it off you think I'm braindead!!!

How many people my age do you know who make £2000-3000 a month for minimal work? Every week that goes by I have to do less and less work as people are doing the work for me for a cut. Why am I saying this to you? Not because I want to prove that I'm not stupid. Because do you know what I am spending a majority of that money on?

On what I believe in. You know how I came about this lucrative job that I work for myself?

I was praying to God to show me a way to spread the truth. Every night for a week. I wanted to serve him for all he has done for me. I was praying to think of a way I could help him. Then I did. I thought to myself, I need to make a website. This is around the time I was getting evicted and looked like I was going to be homeless very quickly.

Most people would lose absolute faith in this situation but I just prayed and had faith that everything would work out. I suddenly realized something. If I prayed for money to fulfill Gods work, he would give it to me. So I did.

1 week later I have a sudden brainstorm and thought of this business idea. To be completely honest with you I rarely have to do any work on it any more, people just refer people for me it is so easy yet I make more than a doctor would make.

I'm not boasting, I'm just trying to convey to you how real God actually is. He's not showing himself to you because you don't want to know him.

a reply to: TechUnique

None of that information is pertinent to the thread kid. Use some critical thinking, rather than misdirection please.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: TechUnique

None of that information is pertinent to the thread kid. Use some critical thinking, rather than misdirection please.

OH. Thanks for your shining example on how I should post in my own thread. Really pertinent

a reply to: TechUnique

You in no way have demonstrated how your Deity is real in that post. You set the rules for this thread, and honestly its not "your thread" it is ATS who owns it, did you read your T&C when you signed up? You are trying to distract from a thread you no longer have any control over.

So lets try again. What proof do you see as needed for the existence of your God? Now remember I am not an atheist or agnostic. I'm just curious as to your level of proof. If it's how much you earn? I am pretty sure Jesus would not be thrilled.

a reply to: TechUnique
Why do you believers keep posing these types of question? Is your faith so weak you are incapable of carrying on your lives without obsessing about us atheists?

To answer your question :

Do I believe the world is flat propped up by 4 giant elephants stood on a giant tortoise?
NO (but everyone used to when they didn't know better)

Do I believe the world is the centre of the universe and everything rotates around the Earth?
NO (but everyone used to when they didn't know better)

Do I believe in God?
NO (but some people still do even though there is enough evidence for them to know better).

maybe it takes time for some people to understand..........