Read Why the USS Donald Cook Crapped It's Pants and was 'gravely demoralized' in the Black Sea

I think some people are missing the point. If it's a fly over weapon. That needs to be that close to a ship to work. In war time, getting a fly over would be almost impossible, since the plane would be shot down before it got to its target.

Therefore it's not a practice weapon for the Russians in a battle, but if true, this demenstration would make America spend millions of man hours and million of dollars to fix/repeal a threat that probably never will see the light of day.

Having an enemy spend money and manhours not designing new weapons but trying to improve older technology, isn't a bad play

originally posted by: AthlonSavage
information is encoded on a carrier signal by modulation the carriers amplitude, phase or frequency. Im far from an expert on signal transmission but I would make a guess that Em weapons will target on the modulated information, corrupt it so its undecipherable. Doing it this was would reduce significantly the amount of power needed to disrupt as the disruption signal is not trying to stop the carrier signal.

I used to actually make components for radar applications (the microwave parts) in a previous job, we even made some quite complex systems for the stealth bomber.

Anyway, I was thinking about this when I read it and modern radars tend to shift frequency quite rapidly in order to stop the signal from being jammed - if you just send out one signal at one fixed frequency you can in effect block it by swamping it.

Plus they encrypt the pulse.

So, to simply jam the radar you'd need to be able to predict what frequency the next pulse would be at, and what encryption it would have, and fire out a signal to swamp it, which would be impossible to all intents and purposes, unless you already knew what the algorithms, etc were.

So jamming seems unlikely (and the solution would be easy - simply randomise everything so there is no pre-set algorithm or frequency pattern that can be predicted and therefore jammed), and the report did say (if it is true) that it shut down the systems.

So if that is true then it looks like something else is at work, it kind of almost sounds like a virus or a signal that can "switch off" systems, which also sounds unlikely, but who knows, maybe there is some deeply hidden flaw in some part of the system that they have uncovered.

Maybe because the pulse is encrypted and needs to be decrypted to verify it is genuine, they can add something like a shut down command into it so they effectively transmit a "turn off" signal to the ships / targets systems.

But it is supposedly an EW device not a device to specifically target this kind of ship/system.

Who knows if it's true or not, but would be foolhardy to just ignore it as "impossible".

The UK did some manouevers fairly recently with the US and our new class of sub is far and away more advanced and capable than anything else in the world, it quite blew away the US observers when they saw what it could do.

Just sticking your head in the sand and saying "we're the best" or "we're the most advanced" so no one could do that to us is naive and jingoistic.

I would think this to be along the lines of .... look what we can do
If we are willing to show you this, imagine what else we are not showing you

So be afraid, be very afraid, you think you have the power...you have nothing on us!

That's what I read from this, because we are heading into times, where the show of strength will be just as important as the use of force

X

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed
The OP story is ridiculous, there is so much wrong with it.

Why would a Russian plane "approach" a US ship....and why then (even if we assume it were true they disabled the ship's electronics)..would it "simulate 12 missile attacks". It goes against any common sense and would be incredibly stupid to do.

Says a lot about the credibility of the websites you pull that cr@p from...just saying...

Considering they wouldn't have to approach 12 times to launch 12 missiles, the premise is silly.

It's "silly" (mildly spoken) since even the most insane would not risk a 3rd world war with stupid games like this.
Does anyone seriously think Russians are THAT dumb that they would disable a ship, and then grinning and sheepishly laughing simulate missile attacks, 12 of them in succession actually...while holding their bellies laughing out loud?

What's a missile attack by a Russian plane on a US ship?

It's simply spoken an act of war, not much different than the Russians declaring war on America.
The article implies that those on the boat were "panicking", obviously implying that those on the boat thought it's real (attempted) missile attacks. (Let's just ignore the fact that the entire story is bogus, and assume this WOULD really have happened)

So..any sane person could assume that the Americans still possibly have one or the other way to communicate with HQ, so what would happen if those on the boat rely the message to their command they're being attacked by missiles? (Obviously they don't know it's just a "joke", they think it's real).

Even Russians drunk out of their mind from a gallon of Vodka would NOT risk a war or severe consequences by "playing" like this....this is why the entire story sounds idiotic to me.

originally posted by: Power_Semi

The UK did some manouevers fairly recently with the US and our new class of sub is far and away more advanced and capable than anything else in the world, it quite blew away the US observers when they saw what it could do.

Would you mind providing an accredited source stating that the RN's Astute class attack subs are considered superior in any way to the USN's SSN Seawolf and SSN Virginia class attack boats.

I'm not disparaging the RN's Astute program at all. They are cutting edge platforms that are easily the third most capable attack boat in the world (and exponentially more capable than the Russian Federations equivalent Acula class or their newest variation, the 885 Yasen attack boats. )

Top 10 Attack Submarines

Nr.1 Seawolf class (USA)

Entered service: 1997
Diving depth: 487 m
Torpedo tubes: 8x660-mm
Weapons: Mk.48 torpedoes, Sub-Harpoon anti-ship missiles and Tomahawk cruise missiles

The boats of the Seawolf class are the most advanced but also the most expensive hunter-killer submarines in the world. These submarines were intended to restore the technological edge which the US Navy had enjoyed over the Soviets from 1945 until the mid-1980s, when espionage and the cynical trading practices of some US allies somewhat eroded it.
The Seawolf class boats were intended to seek and destroy the latest Soviet ballistic missile submarines, such as the Typhoon class and attack submarines such as the Akula class.

Initially 12 boats of the class were planned. However these advanced submarines were too pricey even for the United States to build and maintain on the post-Cold War era budget. Eventually production was stopped with only three Seawolf class submarines built. All of these boats are currently in service. The US Navy switched to much cheaper design of Virginia class attack submarines.
The Seawolf class submarines are arguably the quietest submarines in the world ever constructed. It is exceptionally quiet even at high speeds. Most submarines need to keep their speed down to as little as 5 knots to avoid detection by passive sonar arrays, while the Seawolf class are credited with being able to cruise at 20 kots and still be impossible to locate. A Seawolf at 25 knots makes less noise than an older Los Angeles class submarine tied up alongside the pier.
These boats can operate at greater depths than existing US submarines and can also operate under the polar ice cap. Also these are faster than most other submarines.

These submarines have eight 660-mm torpedo tubes. These tubes are used to launched Mk.48 torpedoes and Sub Harpoon anti-ship missiles. Torpedo tubes are also used to launch Tomahawk land attack cruise missiles with a range of 1 700 km. A mix of 50 torpedoes, Sub Harpoons and Tomahawks can be carried.

Nr.2 Virginia class (USA)

Entered service: 2004
Diving depth: over 250 m
Vertical launched tubes: 12
Torpedo tubes: 4x533-mm
Weapons: Mk.48 torpedoes, Sub-Harpoon anti-ship missiles, Tomahawk cruise missiles.

The US Navy's Virginia class nuclear-powered attack submarine is as a successor to the Los Angeles class boats. It was designed as a smaller, cheaper and more versatile alternative to the advanced but extremely expensive Seawolf class. A total of 30 of Virginia class nuclear-powered attack submarines are planned.
The Virginia class submarines incorporate newly designed anechoic coating, isolated deck structures and new design of propulsor to achieve low acoustic signature. It is claimed that noise level of the Virginia is equal to that of the Seawolf class.

The Virginia class submarines are fitted with 12 vertical launch system (VLS) tubes. These are used to launched Tomahawk land attack cruise missiles with a range of 1 700 km. Also there are four 533-mm torpedo tubes. These are used to fire a total of 26 Mk.48 heavyweight torpedoes and Sub Harpoon anti-ship missiles.

These boats can be also used for special operations. It is the first US submarine to employ a built-in Navy SEAL staging area allowing a team of 9 men to enter and leave the submarine.

Nr.3 Astute class (United Kingdom)

Entered service: 2010
Diving depth: over 150 m
Torpedo tubes: 6x533-mm
Weapons: Spearfish torpedoes, Sub-Harpoon anti-ship missiles, Tomahawk cruise missiles.

The first Astute class nuclear-powered attack submarine was commissioned with the Royal Navy in 2010. So far 7 boats of the class are planned. These will replace the older Swiftsure class attack submarines.
The Astute class boats are significantly stealthier and carry more weapons than the previous boats of Trafalgar class.

These attack submarines are fitted with six 533-mm torpedo tubes. These are used to launch Spearfish torpedoes, Sub-Harpoon anti-ship missiles and Tomahawk cruise missiles. A mix of 36 missiles and torpedoes are carried.

The Tomahawk Block IV land attack cruise missiles have a range of 1 700 km and can target enemy ships as well as land targets.

I don't know why this would be such a stretch to suggest that Russia might do this. It was widely rumored in the '80s that Russia was working on an electromagnetic "nuke" that could shut down entire cities electrical systems to a point that even a battery powered watch would not work. It would seem that this type of technology would be extremely effective against any electronic weaponry and probably relatively simple to create therefore making it nearly impossible to counter.

As for the reason to demonstrate it during peace time, isn't this what the cold war was about - US and USSR flexing their superiority in an effort to deter the other from interfering in their business. Russia has told us repeatedly to stay out of their business with the Ukraine and this is a perfect way to show that they can force us to comply if they want. Ultimately, they do not want a full military action as it would alienate the rest of the world against them. It was the same tactic used when they launched Sputnik.

a reply to: joeandandi

Except that if you have something that gives you the ability to take out your enemies ships whenever you want, you don't give it away as a demonstration, and certainly not against a soft target like a destroyer. If you're going to give it away, you do it against an entire Carrier Strike Group, and demonstrate that you could kill any carrier you want to, any time you want to.

a reply to: joeandandi

Countries do use their technology and weapons assets to play geopolitical games and warn the potential aggressors of the consequences if any adventures are taken by them.

Pakistan and North Korea with nukes have played this game very well to their (impractical) political goals.

But still for one Su-Fencer to shut down the most advanced Aegis system and perform a dozen missile runs on its perimeter..................is somewhat far fetched IMHO. If Russians have done this once as per the story, then they need to do it one more time to confirm the capability.

Otherwise, it should be neglected as a fluke hit by SA-3 on the F-117 Stealth Fighter during Yugoslavian war.

a reply to: Drunkenparrot

Think it's to do with what Rear Admiral Ian Cordner said:

www.thinkdefence.co.uk...

As well as what came from the Captain of HMS Astute as it was undergoing trials in the US:

www.navalshipbuilding.co.uk...

Well it looks like they better get the museum anolog fleet ready
To go to sea

originally posted by: big_BHOY
a reply to: Drunkenparrot

Think it's to do with what Rear Admiral Ian Cordner said:

www.thinkdefence.co.uk...

As well as what came from the Captain of HMS Astute as it was undergoing trials in the US:

www.navalshipbuilding.co.uk...

Ty for posting, Im reading both of the articles you linked as well as double checking my research before responding..

That never happened. Lol yeah, a an su-24 flew over but that's it. No crazy loss of power or anything.


Source: a fire controlman on the Donald cook when that happened

a reply to: Drunkenparrot

a reply to: big_BHOY

The new UK Astute class nuclear attack subs appear to have some major problems.

Britain's nuclear hunter-killer submarines were doomed from the start.

But it is the speed issue that may be the most problematic. To save money, the MoD decided not to build a new nuclear reactor for the Astute, but to use the Rolls Royce PWR2 (pressurised water reactor 2) that had been fitted to the Vanguard fleet of Trident submarines.

"The PWR2 was shoehorned into the Astute, and it meant the submarine's initial designs had to be changed," said a source. "That is why the Astute has a slightly bulbous look about it, not the clean lines that you might expect. The reactor was never meant for an attack submarine and it is supplying power to machinery whose designs have not greatly changed for 50 years. In very simple terms, it is like hooking up a V8 engine to a Morris Minor gearbox."

www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/nov/15/astute-hunter-killer-submarin es-doomed

Slow, leaky, rusty: Britain's £10bn submarine beset by design flaws.

Of all the difficulties, it is the problems with propulsion which are the most sensitive. The MoD stated Astute would be able to make 29 knots, but the Guardian has been told it cannot do this.

"So much promise was held out for the Astute class of nuclear powered submarine but these faults occurring during its commissioning into active/service, particularly in the propulsion system and its under-performance, suggest that the whole has been cobbled together from some ill-fitting parts

www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/nov/15/hms-astute-submarine-slow-leaky-rusty

They are using the reactor design from the Vanguard class with the drive system from the Trafalgar class and apparently this isn't going too well. Hopefully they can fix up the Astute and the rest of the program.

a reply to: SubTruth

Decades ahead, but cannot manufacture high thrust rocket engines...

a reply to: Nodrak

Yes, we actually can, but chose to buy them from Russia instead. Win/win. We get rocket engines, they get money.

Why isn't this in the hoax bin yet?

a reply to: DeadSeraph Possibly because its not proven to be a hoax. Everything the ruskis have is EMP hardened and built like a brick #house. It isn't difficult to disrupt electronics clever gizmo, and radar or comms frequency changing isn't worth a damn if there is wideband jamming.
The story is very embarrasing if true (and it could be a deep sea tale) but you're all wrong imho if you think the Russians wouldn't do this because theyd love to take the piss out the US Navy and frighten the living daylights out the Pentagon. If they did do it I'll bet they're still laughing.

a reply to: Flyinghaggis

And wouldn't it be even more shocking and a LOT more embarrassing to take out an entire CBG, instead of a soft target like a destroyer? Mount this on a Bear or Backfire, fly it over a CSG, and turn the lights out, and the entire Pentagon craps a solid gold brick, and there's almost no way to cover it up.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Since carriers engines are electric, this may work even better on a Carrier. Most of the small boys use conventional(diesel) engines and might still work after an EW attack.

I still do not know what to make of this. The skipper appears to have left the command early(usually a 4 year rotation for Sea duty) and there is a lot speculation and scuttlebutt.

I don't know anyone who was on board. It does seem that they if they used EW weapon, it may have been painful for the crew. I do know of less than lethal EW weapons than can make a person feel like they are burning....

I doubt this was a complete hoax, it does seem like something happened.

a reply to: jrod

Yeah, the Su-24 flew around the ship. More than that, there isn't a shred of evidence to it.