Read Why the USS Donald Cook Crapped It's Pants and was 'gravely demoralized' in the Black Sea

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: Zaphod58

What makes more sense what the OP is putting forward or what you are putting forward....Hmm. I have to side with common sense and go with you.



No way would Russia be this stupid......No way. I do find it ironic the pro-Russia posters are trying to sell this crap when in reality it hurts the cause. If it is true....... which it is not Russia would have to have the most incompetent leaders in history of warfare.

Here's the thing though; you don't have all the details. Number one if Russia had this "secret technology" you can bet your ass U.S. intelligence has caught wind of it and probably has a good idea of what it can do. Russia, in turn, probably knows they know, and are willing to use it on a single destroyer if they think the ship is up to no good. I don't know what the situation was exactly, but everyone knows the US-Russian tensions are extremely high, and most know the US have allowed or staged enemy attacks before in order to garner support for the war machine. One ship can start a war, recall the Lusitania and the pentagon papers.

Another scenario you're overlooking is that perhaps this was an example of individual stupidity and not a fully backed order from military command. Perhaps the pilot, possibly a young man (who are impulsive), saw an opportunity to use technology that was already installed in his plane. The fact that it circled around pretending to bomb them 12 times afterword makes me think the pilot was acting on his own volition and not following orders.
I don't know, I'm just pointing out neither do you. Just some food for thought

a reply to: Thorneblood

Complete half truth, the jet did try to harass the U.S. ship so it would leave the Black sea as the Russians think they are the only ones allowed there but you can bet your life savings that it never even had any effect on the Aegis system if it did even try to do something like that.

This is just more laughable BS straight from Russia, you know the kind like Crimea had fair elections, Or that they were invited to be invaded by unknown soldiers from an unknown force flying in from Russia on Russian army choppers lol.

a reply to: dr1234

Except that they've always made multiple passes when they fly around US ships. The more passes they make, the more data they gather.

As for the destroyer, it would have been a LOT more effective, if this was a demonstration, to go out and find a CSG and use it on them.

Again the problem is that the system in question is a self protection system, not an Aegis jamming system.

Good reading thread, really enjoying the debate and back and forth.
What makes me wonder just how much truth we actually get from the press releases and whatnot this article which in any way shape or form cannot be denied.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

A comparatively cheap and primitive Chinese rubber sub pop's up right in the middle of a Carrier group within killing distance.
An old fashioned style sub pops up amid a Carrier group worth Trillions and they never knew it was there.

Pay attention to simple and cheap technology I say,
Does anyone here see the similarities between my link and the OP's Post?

Poop happens, they just don't want us to know about it if its not profitable.

S&F for a great thread.
Regards, Iwinder

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Thorneblood

Half truth. The flyby did happen, no one denies that. But the Cook wouldn't have done anything regardless.

Agree your logic that why would Russians expose something advanced on a single destroyer. The only two possibilities I can think of..................if this story is infact true.

a) Russians tested their C or B grade system, to gather data and give it a try run. The A grade system might still be in the secret chambers.

b) Russians were scared that US/NATO might try a long hand and intervene in Ukraine in military terms. They just wanted to tell US/NATO that we have toys at hand that would "negate your electronics on wide range of equipment" so you better go back home and read for exams again. This probably gave them 2 years of time to keep NATO from playing war with Russia.

Candidly, I think Russians are only ahead in missiles technology and their population can live on much less resources than those in the west. In rest of the areas, they have some catching up to do.

originally posted by: criticalhit

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: crazyewok

A classified aircraft doesn't completely invalidate a doctrine of war like a system able to take out an Aegis would be. That would mean the carriers are completely vulnerable to a guy in a Cessna with a hand dropped bomb.

let's not forget in a wartime scenario... why the hell would an Aegis let the plane get close enough to use it.

In wartime it would have been blown out of the sky many many miles away with the Standard 2 missile.

I guess all these Russian Flag wavers will start crying when Aegis starts dropping these little planes like a pig in a Turkey shoot. We will just have to wait and see now wont we. If someone does not put Putin in his place I think we are going to find out real soon. Hey maybe the Aussies will down one or two of them when the Russians decided to test their Aegis systems out lol. I wouldn't put it past the Aegis system to be so powerful as to melt the electronics in these jets if they want it too. If they focus it all on one target it may just do it or cause the pilots hair to fall out one lmao.

a reply to: victor7

I am sure you missed the boat with both of your theories. Hell the Russians even claim their planes are stealth lol, I bet you believe that one as well.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dr1234

Except that they've always made multiple passes when they fly around US ships. The more passes they make, the more data they gather.

As for the destroyer, it would have been a LOT more effective, if this was a demonstration, to go out and find a CSG and use it on them.

Again the problem is that the system in question is a self protection system, not an Aegis jamming system.

This is where the discussion goes a bit over my head, I was going off the OP's account of the details and not the other sources that say it was a different system. In the scenario I'm talking about, he was pretending to bomb them, not gathering data. This account also didn't claim to know what the system was, only the end result was that ship became a sitting duck. I have 0 knowledge of the different kinds of EMP systems, other than a very basic idea of what an EMP is.

I didn't suppose it was a demonstration, the scenarios I offered where 1. preventing the ship from carrying out some sort of act of aggression or false flag and 2. a Russian fighter pilot being overzealous and using new technology without permission in order to intimidate (no time to go look for a different system, if that's what you meant)

a reply to: Zaphod58

Zap you will never win cause you post facts and other stuff that makes sense rather than boast about ridiculous things just to wave the flag lol. Plus you root for the home team, the evil great Satan when Russia is such a peace loving nation that only protects its Russian speaking people who were born and raised in another country, that actually hate Russia with a passion. We Americans who talk sense and reason with facts will never be smarter than the Uber hate everything America does crowd.

a reply to: dr1234

Why is the U.S. ship a sitting duck? Did you really think we would just blow it out of the sky when we are not at war with Russia?

Now if he would have shot a missile off then ya they would have shot him and the missile down.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: Zaphod58

Zap you will never win cause you post facts and other stuff that makes sense rather than boast about ridiculous things just to wave the flag lol. Plus you root for the home team, the evil great Satan when Russia is such a peace loving nation that only protects its Russian speaking people who were born and raised in another country, that actually hate Russia with a passion. We Americans who talk sense and reason with facts will never be smarter than the Uber hate everything America does crowd.

Why must we humans always polarize everything? I usually see these discussions turn into debates. Hell, a lot people probably won't even appreciate that distinction. When I offer an opposing veiwpoint, it's either to inform (when I'm knowledgeable on the subject) or to get some clarification and input (when someone else seems knowledgeable on the subject). Other people seem more concerned with winning some imiganary internet trophy for winning an arguement.

a reply to: victor7

a) Russians tested their C or B grade system, to gather data and give it a try run. The A grade system might still be in the secret chambers.

I'll take "A" for a thousand Alex please.
If I am correct then there is a lot more happening right now witch some folks might find ugly.
Namely the truth.
Regards, Iwinder

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: dr1234

Why is the U.S. ship a sitting duck? Did you really think we would just blow it out of the sky when we are not at war with Russia?

Now if he would have shot a missile off then ya they would have shot him and the missile down.

I'm starting to think I might have misunderstood something. I was under the impression that the jet approached the ship and the jet used some new kind of technology that shut down all of the electrical systems. Afterwards the ship would have effectively been a floating hunk of mental, or a sitting duck. I assumed the AA guns are reliant on electronic systems nowadays and not purely mechanical, but I don't know that for a fact.

a reply to: dr1234

The only way to gather data is to make the ship lock onto you with its systems. Therefore they are going to make a mock attack run, get you to bring your systems up, and break off, while recording every bit of information on frequencies and everything else they can get.

New technology like this wouldn't have been put on an old aircraft like the Su-24. It wouldn't have the power required to operate it. Anything capable of taking an Aegis down like that is going to be incredibly power intensive, and older aircraft aren't going to have the power capabilities required to operate all their systems, plus this system.

a reply to: dr1234

CIWS has a remote operation capability that relies on optical tracking. They wouldn't have had any trouble bringing down an Su-24 even with their radar down.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
a reply to: Zaphod58
We Americans who talk sense and reason with facts will never be smarter than the Uber hate everything America does crowd.

Oh really ... any man who "loves" America, after Fallujah and Abu Grahib, is a retard. After murdering a million people, as revenge for the death of 4000. That's just too much ...

Nobody says, that the US doesn't have the right to fight it's enemies ... what is being said, is the the US is an empire, and does not have and never will have anyone else in their heart ... except themselves. Their egoistic maniacs, which gives any other egoistic maniac the same right as them.

Putting it "bluntly", We're sick and tired of the brainwashed stuff where the US defeats Germany in WWII, epic saga made in Hollywood and starred by John Wayne. It's a lie ... and we're tired of listening to the old rhetoric "We saved the Jews" ... you never saved anyone ... never won a war, not even the Alamo. Nothing you've ever touched, has ever become anything but dust ... Iraq, is worse off now than before. Lybia is worse of now, than ever before ... same applies to Afghanistan. Wherever you go, you make things worse ... you turn life into dust in your wague. And you don't have the "intellect" to step down and leave.

You saving the Jews, have put the Jews into an enemy territory ... and everything you do, you make "the jews" to blame. You're always murdering millions ... for the poor Jews. And everybody, hates the Jews, as a result. Becaused they lost their loved ... all because of the Jews.

You didn't save anyone ... you made absolutely sure, that the Jews would be sent down to that desert nowhere land, and then turned every man, woman and child in it's neighbourhood into their enemy.

Those are plain facts.

And, what ... YOU think we're afraid of the Russians? Why should we fear the Russians or the Chinese ... when we have the likes of the US around. The ultimate bad guy ... maybe after the US is gone, we'll start worrying about runner up no.2 or 3.

a reply to: dr1234

They have backups for everything and that is about all I can say about that. They are never sitting ducks unless they are completely in flames and sinking.

a reply to: StopThaZionistWorldOrder

Read "Superiority" by Arthur C. Clarke. Its a short story about a war where one side depended on vastly more advanced technology and was defeated by the other side simply figuring out their vulnerability and overwhelming them with superior numbers. Having the highest tech does NOT mean you will prevail in battle.

a reply to: openminded2011

Why read fiction about that when we can read the reality about that?

WW2.

One also has to consider how close they were supposedly flying when pulling this stunt. I suppose if NATO were to fly an EF-18 Growler close enough to one of their ships where they could throw a rock at it while having its countermeasures going full blast, it'd have a similar effect. There's probably only so much you can do about a saturation type electronic attack if it's right up in your face. Not that different than getting night blindness if somebody shines a high-power flashlight right in your eyes.

The description of the event makes you wonder if some equipment is susceptible to burn-in? I guess that would be a downside, if there's anything to the story.

It seems like a great tactic for causing drama, but probably very high risk for such an aircraft to perform in an actual combat scenario. Afterall during hostilities one or two ships aren't going to be the only thing they're going to be dealing with.