The 25th anniversary of the Lazar saga...

a reply to: mirageman

I plan to do a show this month. Nov. 23rd. Bob Lazar and his friend Gene Huff will join me for all four hours of the program.

a reply to: GeorgeKnapp

Hi Mr. Knapp,

Was the research that you engaged in to prepare for the series of segments on UFOs for KLAS your first introduction to UFOs in general, or did you have a prior interest?

Thanks for being here.

FYI... George let me know he's buried doing a majorly important piece for KLAS, www.8newsnow.com..., and will be back to this thread tomorrow.

You just won't find George Knapp posting on the interwebs anywhere so I will certainly be checking back tomorrow!

originally posted by: seabhac-rua
a reply to: ATSZOMBIE

Obviously.

I was replying to another poster who said that E115 doesn't "exist in nature". I was pointing out the fact that everything we know in nature is the result of the conditions and elements present during the formation of our solar system, and that it is logical to assume that these factors can and will be different elsewhere.

Indeed, it may be theorised that if the alien FTL propulsion method is the only way to traverse great interstellar distances then the residents of solar systems which are devoid of E115, as we are, then they are trapped there until somebody brings the technology to them. Just an idea.

The periodic table is a work in progress for humans, but I would imagine it would be quite larger for a superior race.

When discoveries are made, and they wind up in the table, it creates "placeholders'" for future elements that most likely exist, but have not yet been isolated. Copernicium filled in some of the placeholders for E115 , and other new elements, when it was discovered in 2010, and itself was theorized in 1996. There is probably a great deal more to discover about E115 in the future.

I would think that if an alien race did rely on E115 for propulsion, then they would be able to obtain it or synthesize it on the road, or at least have enough to get back to their origin point. Even with our relatively meager space capabilities, I cannot think of a case where we did not bring enough fuel along to complete a mission.

a reply to: charlyv

If my memory serves me correctly Bob Lazar once stated the they have 500 pounds of 115 out at S4.

Now, I don't know if my memory is that trustable.

I'm still hoping George will answer my original question posted to him regarding a story about seeing Bob tinkering around with some 115 at his house, again I can't remember if it was George who recounted this story, it might have been John Lear though, as I've said my memory is sketchy.

a reply to: seabhac-rua

Here is John Lear mentioning the story on an ATS thread from 2007:

Bob obtained 3 "arrowheads" about 2 inches long machined at LANL. Bob, Joe Vanniniti and I did the 'dry ice'/coleman lantern pintle experiment which was videotaped. Bob kept them in round lead containers about one inch thick. 2 were stolen back by the government.

Bob Lazar And Element 115

I'm sure the question has been asked before but I'm going to ask it again anyway. Is it at all possible the the entire thing was set up by the powers that be? They chose someone with some holes in his background (possibly even some exaggerated academic achievements) but bright enough to justifiably convince him that he has the necessary skills to accomplish what they need done. They put on the big performance of bringing him out to S4, parading him in front of some saucer mock ups (or possibly the real thing), feed him some plausible scientific gobbledygook and then make his life hell until he quits. Then you have this guy out there who you can easily discredit but has a credible enough story, told with the heartfelt sincerity of a honest man, and all that's left is to find a way to ensure he talks. A good way to do that might be to continue to make his life hell and convince him that his life is in danger and going public is the best way to ensure he doesn't end up swinging from a chandelier by his tie.

If you listen to the Coast to Coast interview Bob sounds genuinely perplexed as to why they chose him. I wonder if he has ever considered that he might have been used in this manner. To spread disinformation? To make people believe that the United States military has sophisticated captured ET technology? As a distraction from some other event? Who knows? There could have been any number of reasons. In fact, there could have been a number of Bob Lazars...other similar S4 new hires who went through the same scenario. Only we've not heard their stories for reason of another.

Maybe George can answer if Bob has ever talked about this possibility with him?

a reply to: Bybyots

So it was Lear?

Thanks for clarifying that for me Bybyots!

a reply to: duaneology

This has always been one of the possible scenarios regarding Lazar's story.

I've listened to interviews with Bob talking about witnessing unbelievably advanced technology, one example I recall him mentioning was how when they pointed one of the anti-gravity devices, which are in the lower section of the saucer, at a candle and how the candle froze like a picture yet it still emitted light, which defies the laws of physics as we know them. He talks also of how, although they've figured out how to operate the saucer he worked on, to a degree, they still were a long way from replicating the tech that it used, in fact he said that it was so advanced that he doubted we ever would be able to replicate it. There are other examples of Bob talking about how mind-bogglingly advanced the alien tech was.

To me, it seems like a lot of effort to go to in order to create a disinfo stooge who will then be allowed out into the world to create rumours that will then be denied. Bob is a smart guy by all accounts, he knows physics, he understands the scientific method, and he was perplexed by what he witnessed.

Of course this is just my take on it. I'm not saying it wasn't an elaborate disinfo op, it could very well have been, but for me that thesis doesn't add up, if they really wanted to do something like that they could have done it in a much more effective way, or not at all. It seems more likely to me that if Lazar was deliberately 'selected', it was for exposure to real alien stuff at S4 and it was done for the purpose of deliberately leaking info to the public. I have heard many accounts over the years of top level brass expressing their desire that the public get wind of what is really happening with regards to ET contact, although this can be construed as pure speculation......and of course the other option is that it's all a bunch of lies...all of it!!

a reply to: ForteanOrg

It's good that they mentioned "the security services check their honesty, independence, loyalty and integrity.". "Honesty" was the entire purpose for one of my polygraph exams. I was told ahead of time privately that "they don't care what you've done - they just want to know if you'll be honest about it". That's the one I failed, after being entirely honest. It might have stopped there had not some of the "deceptive" questions been nonsensical - something as innocuous as "do you like spinach?" - why would anyone lie about that? No reason to lie on a "control" question, yet there was the spike.So they had to do more legwork to verify whether it was me or the machine telling the truth.

Here, and especially for a facility like A51/S4, there are likely to be multiple background checks done, or at the very least multiple layers of backgrounding. In one case, all I had to give was my name and Social Security number - they wanted to dig out the paperwork through official channels themselves. Imagine my surprise (or not) when it was set up just that light and breezily, and a few weeks later I found out they had folks in the gray flannel cammies out questioning my friends, family and neighbors as to my general character, reputation for honesty, attitude, political leanings, finances, etc., going in-depth and detailed on what was, to me, a lightweight "setup".

The point is, different sections might be working on different parts of the check - maybe the guys doing the paper chase were having an off day - their dog died or something and they were preoccupied, without their heart really being in it that day - and the guys in the gray flannel cammies doing the leg work came back with good reports, so Lazar got a pass.

It's possible - background investigators are people, too, and people sometimes make mistakes or miss details for one reason or another. Some are just lazy and rubber stamp stuff - but they generally don't last long.

A man can be entirely honest, and entirely wrong. If he believes what he says, it's "truth" to him.

a reply to: GeorgeKnapp

Good, You're probably busy doing research on him. I wonder if you'd be willing to test my hypothesis a bit. Maybe you could talk to a few of his former primary school classmates. What type of guy was Bob? Was he that smart, overimaginative, shy kid I picture? Did little Bobby already dream of a career as a scientist? Did he have the stamina and will to go to college / university? Do they recall he did? To which highschool did he go? Can you find classmates there that remember him? Maybe there are still some old record to be found?

An interesting fact is that nobody ever stepped forward that remembers Bob Lazar as a MIT student. Does Bob maintain that everybody was manipulated / scared by the government? If so, maybe you, mr Knapp, can find some evidence of it by simply talking to a few of those assumed classmates. Bob was born in 1959, so probably went to primary between 65-71, college from 72-76 .. etc. - you know the drill. You may ask Bob to provide some of the names of his fellow students - surely he'll be able to provide at least one or two? Surely there are lists of classes that studied at say MIT or some other institute that Bob assumedly went to to obtain his education, maybe Bob's memory can be jogged if you provide him with such lists, so he can determine in which class he was? That would give you a list of targets to query. Surely Bob would happily cooperate - why not? It only helps him.

In all cases it would be an interesting investigation, which can't be done on the Internet. The Internet merely reflects the lies we all tell each other, and by crossreferencing these lies we can find part of the truth. But hard facts, especially when we're discussing events that happened 40-50 years ago, are best found in old, dusty, paper archives.

I hope you have a good hunt mr. Knapp - and maybe your interview will reveal something we don't know yet. But if you merely sit down with Bob and ask him questions - well, he'll just tell what he always tells and not much news will be heard, methinks.

And a final thought: doesn't it strike you as odd that this guy, that recently said he did not want anything to do with this anymore, that he'd rather bury the entire episode - now willingly steps forward for yet another interview? Maybe something you'd care to ask him: why, Bob?

a reply to: duaneology

A very plausible hypthesis too

It's a bit more complicated one than mine as it assumes a government or agency that plans ahead to provide disinformation. I wonder why they would use Bob in such a way, why draw attention to an area they don't want too much attention drawn to? Maybe to convince "the others" that the US of A has some very advanced technology (they don't have)?

But a plausible theory indeed, worth testing. Testing it overlaps with testing mine, so maybe folks that are in the States and have some spare free time can check it out. See my previous posting to mr Knapp for some suggestions where to start.

a reply to: nenothtu

In my country, if agencies do background checks because you want to work for some company that processes confidential data they will inform you about the process. If they need to do interviews with friends, family, neighbours etc. they will tell you so. I believe similar rules apply to US citizens, but your story seems to defy that. Is there any document available (similar to the AIVD/MIVD document) in which the process / procedure is outlined?

It strikes me as a rude, expensive and unnecessary measure to sent out interviewers without your consent. At least you should have the option to say "oh, if that's what you are going to do, I don't want the job, I believe my family, friends and neighbours should not be harrassed by you folks simply because I want a job." ..

a reply to: seabhac-rua

It makes you wonder how many times things have been re-invented not only over the course of our history, but certainly between other civilizations. Not being privy to what our governments and military have been able to develop, or borrow if you will, even scientists not in that loop probably catch up once in a while. Such may be the case for E115. A very inefficient process certainly, but proving that we can do it on our own is just as important.

My personal thoughts on Bob Lazar and his story did not lead me into fixating on his background or education.
I suspect that the government has access to as many high profile educated scientists they need which they can scout out from reputable institutions all over the USA.

What they wanted here was people that were in fact not as qualified that looked outside the realm of possibility, they took a risk to try and recruit people that could see something that the highly educated eye could not see.

Some times the things you are looking for are right there in front of your face but unrecognizable if it is tested against all that you have been trained and taught.

Some times an outsider with a different point of view is required to point out the obvious.

This is the only conclusion I can come to that would make sense for Bob to even be anywhere near 51 or (S4)

For me it’s pretty simple, if one thing he has said checks out then he must be telling the truth...S4 to mention one.

It seems to me, after reading the article, there is more than just one thing.

a reply to: duaneology

That's certainly a theory I would consider. It is entirely plausible that Bob was fed duff information.

What was the motive though?

Did the people at A51 need to bring attention to the base for some reason? What reason?

Wasn't the Berlin Wall coming down as all of this got out?

I'm back to scratching my head again.

Anyway for those who want to see a snippet of ,a very young, George Knapp's first interview with Bob Lazar :

originally posted by: GeorgeKnapp
a reply to: The GUT
I just re-read this post and think I was too harsh in my reaction elsewhere. The points raised here are fair. And I agree that I have sometimes been too eager to believe. The transformation was not instantaneous, by any means. I immersed myself in the topic and was generally ticked off about how poorly it had been treated by my journalism colleagues. But after those first heady months of being inundated with the craziest UFO tales you can imagine...day after day after day...I scaled things back. I have tried very hard to maintain a healthy level of skepticism--in the true sense of the word...while maintaining an open mind. It is not easy finding that particular sweet spot. I remain a work in progress. The only exception I take to your post is the cheap shot at the skinwalker book. As I wrote elsewhere, I await further input about which journalistic standards I failed to meet. That said, I laughed at your Pimp Daddy Bob observation. I'm pretty sure Bob would likewise get a kick out of it. If you only knew......

No worries on that---the search for truth ("What is truth?" asked Pilate as he washed his hands) is definitely in the "contact sport" category.

I do salute your willingness to go where faint-hearted journalists fear to tread. I'm sure there has been a personal cost to that. Obversely, I guess one could profit from that as well (Operation Mockingbird for example.)

Where my antennae start to twitch is the point where you started getting involved with members of the so-called Aviary and the mysterious birdcage--or flocking-- that was NIDS.

You do realize that some of your friends and associates have been linked to the Serpo hoax, right? Kit Green and Hal Puthoff most directly. Can you give us some thoughts about that? Did you know any of the folk that you collaborated with at NIDS/Skinwalker before or after you met Bob Lazar?

The areas where UFOs meets the intelligence community never actually seem to be about UFOs, if'n you know what I mean and I think you do.

So, to be frank, when I look at some of your friends and contacts, I do have to wonder if you've been taken for a ride, as well. Taking folk for UFO "rides" seems to be quite common amongst the peripheral of some of that bunch.

As a serious journalist have you considered that? The intelligence shenanigans in ufology---some of it associated with your friends/business associates? If so, please elaborate.

As far as the other discussion here about why Bob would be targeted and then let loose on a psyop, I do have a theory, but first a question: Does anyone know--historically--when we started to move the operations normally associated with Area 51? What I'm pondering is, "Look! Lookie here at our top secret flight platform mega-operation! Here! UFOs and everything. Bring your camcorders!"...meanwhile back at the new base of black ops wet dreams...