Putin: USA 'shaped the world' according to its interests

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
1) Attacking ally Gaddafi

Russia voted for the UN resolution allowing the use of force on Libya.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
2) Attacking ally Assad

There has been on US attack on Assad. I would note though that you guys constantly call out Ukraine for using its forces on "citizens" while you remain quiet on Assad doing the same thign.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
3) Attacking ally Yanukovych

He was removed by the lawfully elected parliament of Ukraine and there was no US attack. Russia however did invade Ukraine. Also, Ukraine is a sovereign independent nation so on the off chance the US attacked Ukraine, it would be an attack on Ukraine and not Russia. You need to get out of the cold war USSR mindset that Russia owns the former SSR's. They are independent, sovereign and can make their own decisions.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
4) Attacking with media warfare

lol please.... the same can be said about russia.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
5) Attacking with economic warfare

Like Russia has been doing by trying to replace the US dollar as a reserve currency in addition to holding Europe hostage by natural gas. If Russia is going to attack the US economy, then turn about is fair play. Sorry if the west has been more successful than Russia has.

Maybe Russia should rethink their position on economic warfare?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
If you weren`t so focused on Putin you actual would see what your own government was doing.

I do see what my own government is doing and I vote to get hose out of office who I don't think are doing their jobs / doing a bad job / is just plain stupid.... Like Obama.

You are so focused on defending Putin that you absolutely refuse to see just how far from reality Putin has ventured. The difference between you and I is I can criticize my government where as you completely fail to do so with Putin.


Everything you listed above is a 2 way road and in multiple areas, was started by Putin. You and Putin need to realize that when you point a finger, there are 4 more pointing back towards you. To further my point your list shows that you are ignoring Putin actions.

This mess has been caused by Putin. Every single area he, and the pro Putin's on this site, have bitched about have become reality because of Putin's actions.

Economic sanctions...
NATO expansion...
NATO force redeployment...
NMD deployment...

All occurred as a result of Putins actions. What Putin has done would be like bitching that his neighbor has no right to have a gun to protect his property and then taking action that tramples on his neighbors rights, forcing them to buy a gun to defend themselves from Putin.

Putin has managed to pull of a first - A causality in temporal mechanics where effect comes before cause. He listed his complaints and concerns of what he does not want to happen, only to take an action that causes it. He then complains about it and blames them for doing exactly what he did not want and being clueless that he caused it.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Here some more study for ya :

Libya–Russia relations

Link

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Wich part is of interest?

this -

Although Russia has criticized NATO's campaign in Libya, Dmitry Medvedev suggested that Colonel Gaddafi lost the legitimacy and requested that he should step down.[2] Nonetheless, Russia has for a while maintained a diplomatic presence in Tripoli with the Gaddafi government until September 2011 when Moscow switched recognition to the anti-Gaddafi National Transitional Council.

or


this?

Russia had joined the arms sanctions against Libya, suspending all contracts for the supply of military hardware to the country in 2011 during Libyan civil war, on May 7, 2012, Russia lifted embargo on Arms Supplies to Libya.

or maybe this?
UN Resolution - Security Council, Adopting Resolution 2174 (2014), Calls for Immediate Ceasefire in Libya, Inclusive Political Dialogue, Prior Notice for Weapons Transfers

or possibly this?
UN Security Council Approves ‘No-Fly Zone’ over Libya, Authorizing ‘All Necessary Measures’ to Protect Civilians, by Vote of 10 in Favour with 5 Abstentions
Notice the term "All Necessary Force" to protect civilians.

Adopting resolution 1973 (2011) by a vote of 10 in favour to none against, with 5 abstentions (Brazil, China, Germany, India, Russian Federation), the Council authorized Member States, acting nationally or through regional organizations or arrangements, to take all necessary measures to protect civilians under threat of attack in the country, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force of any form on any part of Libyan territory — requesting them to immediately inform the Secretary-General of such measures.

As a permanent member of the UN Russia had options and instead of exercising them they remained quiet and accepted the UN resolution. Since the resolutions are put together by member states prior to voting Russia knew exactly what was coming. Trying to portray otherwise is a lost cause on your part.

Also Gaddafi was killed by his own people and not by America as Putin likes to claim / lie about. What is Ironic about your position on Libya is the fact the UN resolution was put in place because of Gaddafi using his air force against his own people. You really need to resolve your double standard on this topic. You side with Assad and Gaddafi while claiming the opposite with Ukraine.

The other irony is Dmitry Medvedev comments... Apparently Yanukovych and Ukraine are different because Russia wants Ukraine. i find it stunning they would claim Gaddafi lost legitimacy while defending Yanukovych.

So my next question would be are you actually concerned about civilians or is your position dependent on Russia's position and whether or not you can blame the west?

a reply to: Xcathdra

So my next question would be are you actually concerned about civilians or is your position dependent on Russia's position and whether or not you can blame the west?

How many people have been victims because of Western foreign politics in the last decades ?

I`m just going to point out to a view things :

- Iraq/Iran War

- Gulf War (could have been prevented, but Bush snr. wanted War)

- Yugoslavian War (could also have been prevented if the West was willing)

- Rwanda War (the West could have prevented the worst)

- Iraq War

- Georgia War (the West was also behind that one)

- Libyan War

- Syrian War

- Ukraine War

- etc.

You know how many lives have been lost by all those Wars ?

A huge amount, but that`s not the whole story in Wars. Every dead person costs many more grieving because people have lost family and friends.

And that`s not even the whole story, because how many War wounded people (people losing limbs, going blind, Fallujah babies, etc.) can also be added to the victims list.

And still we are not there yet, because a tremendous amount of people who have been war traumatized also, that number is way higher as the actual death toll numbers (as an example in Eastern Ukraine lived 6.3 mil people, and part of them have been War traumatized now (probably way over the mil)).

So the total number of War victims (dead, wounded and traumatized) caused by Western policies in the last decades is absolutely bone chilling...

You`re talking about 10s of millions of victims in total, numbers comparable to the World Wars.

What do you think ?

Am I concerned about civilians when I agitate against those Western World policies or not ?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Again,

My question would be are you actually concerned about civilians or is your position dependent on Russia's position and whether or not you can blame the west?

Based on your response its looking like you are more interested in blaming the West even though your comparisons are off base and lacking in facts. Not only that the US has a looong way to go before we come close to reaching the numbers that Stalin managed to rack up. Even Putin has racked up a large body count.

Also -
Russia invaded Ukraine.
Russia invaded Georgia.
Hussein invaded Kuwait (The USSR supported the coalition forces. Something you are ignoring).
The war in Syria has nothing to do with the US.
The war in Libya was addressed already.

And in all of those conflicts the US did not annex territory.

Putin apparently has a "cartman" complex - "Respect my authority".


Your claims on the other conflicts that "could have been prevented" is based on what? Using your logic Russia could have prevented the war in Georgia and Ukraine. Russia could have prevented the war in Syria and Libya. Instead Russia either started the war by invading (Georgia / Ukraine), remaining indifferent (Libya) or propping up Assad 9syria).

The fact of the matter is you are not only deflecting and not answering my question, your entire response is based on anything but facts.

Why did Russia not lift a finger to stop the humanitarian issues in African countries? Putin is so bent on showing he is equal to the west, has a first class military and nuclear arms, yet he chose to ignore the situations. The bulk of the wars / insurrections / terrorists etc we see are using Russian made items, not US. China refused to comply with the UN arms embargo in the Sudan / Darfur area.

They are supplying weapons to Assad, who is using those items on his own people. The same holds with Iran.

now that we have been thru your list twice, maybe you can answer my questions -

Are you actually concerned about civilians or is your position dependent on Russia's position and whether or not you can blame the west?

Again from what I gather you only take exception if its coming from the West. You seem to wholly support the very actions you condemn the west for when its committed by russia.

a reply to: Xcathdra

It`s clear you have a lack of real knowledge about recent history regarding all the Wars which have been taken place in the last few decades to actual understand what I wrote or else you wouldn`t have asked the same question again.

You got your answer, and for explanation I have to point you towards knowledge which can be obtained by your own thorough research about recent history. It simply isn`t my job to act as a history teacher to you.

"Putin is hardcore. pity some of his views i just can't get behind.
But it feels lots like the amazing speech gaddafi gave a while back."

Yes i was thinking the same and look what Libya has become today after the USA exported its peace and the same could be said of Iraq after all them WMD lies that went un punished when in fact it was treason by our leaders

People on the steets in Europe are tired of the USA starting trouble and want the US military bases closed down but they USA with its banker bribes and blackmail is forcing the politicians and media to ignor what the man in the street says or thinks.

Have you read the book 1984 ?

a reply to: ParasuvO

Well then go live there if it is so great. I'm not stopping you. I showed that the corruption index there is MUCH worse than here, which obviously means little to you. So go. It's clearly the superior country right?

originally posted by: Hellas
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Though the same could be said for Russia.

Oh Really?

When did Russia shape the world according to its interests? When did they fund ISIS, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda etc.? Or bring 'Democracy' to countries rich in oil and other various natural resources?

I see their fear mongering got to you badly.

This is one of the stupidest things I've read in awhile. Thanks for the laugh.

Please, tell me how the U.S funded ISIS.

While you're at it, tell me how Russia didn't have any sort of geopolitical influence over the last 80 years. You know... Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc etc etc etc....

Or... you know... Ukraine...

a reply to: DeadSeraph

JERUSALEM – Syrian rebels who would later join the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, or ISIS, were trained in 2012 by U.S. instructors working at a secret base in Jordan, according to informed Jordanian officials.

The officials said dozens of future ISIS members were trained at the time as part of covert aid to the insurgents targeting the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in Syria. The officials said the training was not meant to be used for any future campaign in Iraq.

The Jordanian officials said all ISIS members who received U.S. training to fight in Syria were first vetted for any links to extremist groups like al-Qaida.

WND

Americans are training Syria rebels in Jordan

Some 200 men have already received such training over the past three months and there are plans in the future to provide training for a total 1,200 members of the "Free Syrian Army" in two camps in the south and the east of the country.

Britain's Guardian newspaper also reported that U.S. trainers were assisting Syrian rebels in Jordan. British and French instructors were also participating in the U.S.-led effort, the Guardian said on Saturday, citing Jordanian security sources.

Reuters


Here's your friend McCain with Baghdadi in the background. who just so happens to be ISIS' Leader.


Educate yourself.

a reply to: Xcathdra

"Russia voted for the UN resolution allowing the use of force on Libya. "

No Russia was tricked with some cock and ball story about a no fly zone as they have said a million times and this is why they said no on Syria and won't be fooled again which i am sure you know about but forgot to say.

With or without approval of the UN the USA keeps invading countries so in my book the UN is now worthless and a few million $$$ in bribes paid to small member states is all it takes to get anything past by the UN.

"Also Gaddafi was killed by his own people and not by America"

No the USA giving weapons to rival gangs in Libya and bombing the crap out the place had nothing to do with Gaddafi getting bum rammed by a queers in public and it must had all been Gods work.

Most people in Libya today long for the good old days under Gaddafi and if you want to bang on about dictators then lets not forget Obama who bypasses congress, the UN and anyone else to please his Zionist banker freinds from Isreal.

"So my next question would be are you actually concerned about civilians"

What like the ones burnt alive by the nazi's in the east of the Ukraine or those that are being bombed using cluster bombs in city's of the east by Kiev or should we talk about the protestors killed in Kiev by there un elected governmet of the time a year ago.

Do we need to think about those that were killed on flight mh17 by 30mm cannon from a SU that we now know had its flight ceiling reduced on the internet to say it could not have flown so high as to shoot down the flight.

Yes i am very concerned about civillians being murdered

a reply to: Hellas

Educate myself? I was one of the first people on this site to call bull# when the U.S was beating the war drums in Syria, son.

The fact they tried to overthrow Assad by funding "moderates" in Syria does not mean they funded ISIS directly. You have anything else to add?

How about you address the other point I raised while you are at it? Since the U.S is the boogeyman in your paradigm, how is it Russia has not influenced the world to further their own agenda? Have you ever read a history book? Or are you going to tell me history was written by the winners and take the easy way out, despite all the evidence that attests to Russia's geopolitical influence over the last 80 years?

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: Hellas

Educate myself? I was one of the first people on the site to call bull# when the U.S was beating the war drums in Syria, Son.

The fact they tried to overthrow Assad by funding "moderates" in Syria does not mean they funded ISIS directly. You have anything else to add?

How about you address the other point I raised while you are at it? Since the U.S is the boogeyman in your paradigm, how is it Russia has not influenced the world to further their own agenda in your mind? Have you ever read a history book?

I couldn't care less if you were the first or the last. What history book? About the wars the US waged and lost? Is that what's bothering you?

It shows your lack of knowledge not mine, if the only thing you have to add to this thread is to ask what did russia do.

double post

a reply to: Hellas

My lack of knowledge?

Oh Really?

When did Russia shape the world according to its interests?

That's your quote, not mine.

originally posted by: Hellas
originally posted by: DeadSeraph

It shows your lack of knowledge not mine, if the only thing you have to add to this thread is to ask what did russia do.

It's a fair question.

Ignoring it doesn't change the fact that Russia in it's very long history under various incarnations has at many times tried to shape the world around it, When that didn't work as it thought it should it simply has fallen back time after time to it's old trick of simply invading and annexing the ones who don't fall in line.

Even after the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia is still by far the largest country in the world, I suppose the Crimea or Ukraine almost had them surrounded.

Putin: USA 'shaped the world' according to its interests

Really most countries try to do this. And lets say the USSR won the cold war instead of the west I'm sure they would've tried to shape the world to suit their interests.

The USSR did shape the world also. Took over the whole of Eastern Europe after WW2 for 45 years or so and ruled with Stalin's communist iron fist and exterminated millions upon millions in the death camps of Siberia.

Putin is a product of the cold war and the USSR he is probably still severely pissed that the west won the cold war and the USSR imploded.

The US and the west have made many mistakes and acted in their own interests no doubt but Putin is only concerned with his own interests.

yes, all nations try to shape things in their own interest. However, I think its pretty clear that for Russia, as for iran, Venezuela, Libya, etc, their own "interest" as you guys put it, is survival. All of these groups are fighting from a very real existential threat that the US represents, not even covertly, through our many statements, BLATANT DOCUMENTS pointing out our goals of full spectrum dominance and control of the globe. We clearly state in our mission statements, that we intend for no threat to ever arise that may challenge us economically, politically, or militarily, and that we intend to destroy all such possibilities before they arise. There is a big difference in legitimacy between the two viewpoints.

originally posted by: JimTSpock
Putin: USA 'shaped the world' according to its interests

Really most countries try to do this. And lets say the USSR won the cold war instead of the west I'm sure they would've tried to shape the world to suit their interests.

The USSR did shape the world also. Took over the whole of Eastern Europe after WW2 for 45 years or so and ruled with Stalin's communist iron fist and exterminated millions upon millions in the death camps of Siberia.

Putin is a product of the cold war and the USSR he is probably still severely pissed that the west won the cold war and the USSR imploded.

The US and the west have made many mistakes and acted in their own interests no doubt but Putin is only concerned with his own interests.

Yanks tried to take over East Asia at the same time, also "exterminated millions upon millions." All great powers do this

a reply to: Hellas

The irony is that he staged this harangue at the Valdai Club.

The Valdai Discussion Club was established in 2004. It was named after Lake Valdai, which is located close to Veliky Novgorod, where the club’s first meeting took place. The club’s goal is to promote dialogue between Russian and international intellectual elite, and to make an independent,unbiased scientific analysis of political, economic and social events in Russia and the rest of the world.

[Edit for brevity. --DJW001]

It is shifting from a format of telling the world about Russia to practical efforts to shape the global agenda. The Valdai Club has proved its worth as a discussion platform on Russian issues, and is aimed at consolidating the world intellectual elite to find ways of overcoming current global crises.

valdaiclub.com... [Emphasis mine. --DJW001]

Does anyone else see the irony? Putin is making it clear that discussion time is over. The Valdai club will now be another one way source of propaganda against Putin's enemies.