Is there an organized effort to undermine the Aliens and UFOs forum?

originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: Tangerine

Even though you are not dismissing it mate you will most likely have to undergo some kind of experience yourself to understand the difference between people pretending they didn't see something because it frightened them and people being locked into a state of mind controlled terror.
It also seemed to my friend that something had unlocked in their minds and on a subconscious level they knew exactly what it was and were familiar with it or what it represented.


My reaction at seeing a U.F.O. in broad daylight by myself in an isolated place was i started laughing,i can't see a whole bunch of people reacting like that as we are all different personalities and they were in a crowded place.

Its funny I had the same reaction during a childhood encounter with a landed UFO with about 35 other people.
I started laughing as the others scrambled in terror.

I think i know why too....At a soul-subconscious level I think you become happy that you are finally meeting your ET family again...and your soul rejoices..

OG

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed

originally posted by: FearYourMind
Ice crystals pulsate, stop and change direction in space? They just have a mind of their own I guess. Jim sure knows his ice crystals.

When was the last time you observed ice particles IN SPACE IN ZERO GRAVITY...so you know that the movement observed is "not possible"? Did you ever see ice particles float in space in zero gravity?

(As for the Tether incident in general..it amazes me how many people [incl. in this video] are still saying it's "disc-shaped objects with a notch", because it cannot be more clear to me that it's very tiny particles OUT OF FOCUS. You even see that it's out of focus when the camera focuses clear on the tether....where, at the same time, the tiny "drops" or what it is all of a sudden magically "become discs". IT'S RIGHT THERE ON FILM. Only someone entirely lacking a basic understanding of optics would not see that and claim it's large discs with a notch.
To add to this, the notches even have been proven/explained as coming from the optics of the camera used, 100% satisfactory explained/debunked. The fact alone that the notch is always at the same position should could also give you a hint. But of course you can simply ignore those points and continue saying it's UFOs, disregarding a whole ton of evidence speaking against it. IE: Waste your time with something which has long been explained. Yawn.

When was the last time I saw ice particles in space. Not even a month ago. If you watch the live ISS feed, you'll see ice particles breaking away all the time. I have seen and know exactly what ice particles look like in space. Ice particles don't break off, move in every direction, stop and make U-Turns etc. You can simply ignore that fact can't you? Did I say they were large disc with notches? No, those are your words. These are spheres of light the NASA cameras are capturing. So, none of your nonsense is relevant to my argument. You just haven't seen ice crystals before. Your lack of experience, not mine.

Ahhh well we can all argue terminology and definitions till the cows come home and at the end of it all you'll be no nearer any form of understanding.

There is a huge difference between "I believe" and "On the balance of evidence I have studied I suspect that". Truth is, people who believe we haven't been visited by non human intelligences have no more concrete proof to back their belief than those who believe we have. In the end, they are two sides of the same coin they are both believers only one side berates the other constantly for their belief whilst pretending their own stance is not based on nothing more than faith.

Furthermore, this utter guff that only a tiny percentage of cases are "unexplained" is constantly trotted out by those who never seem to post of threads authored by the likes of Karl12 and a few others. That doesn't make those cases aliens it means they are unknown a people who bend over backwards to force fit "logical explanations" are as guilty as the likes of Meier at playing fast and loose with the actualities. Travis Walton's appearance on this forum and to my knowledge it was the man himself, should have been a rude awakening for those who blindly accept any old tosh from certain sources as "facts".

You rarely hear those who quote statistics ever mention how, it is estimated by many people who have studied the subject that, maybe even less than 1 in 10 sightings are ever reported to an official channel or made widely public and that, the better the sighting the less likely someone is to actually go public about it. They do not wish to go public the more they have witnessed primarily because of social pressure and because the are truly worried it will impact their career and their private life in a wholly negative manner.

As a thirteen year old i was convinced that we were being visited by craft from other worlds piloted by non human intelligences. Since the age of 18 , I have had a wholly wider view of what it might all be about and for that matter, what it might not be about. For instance, there are hundreds of cultures around this world that are in effect side lined patronised and belittled as "backward" who would think, anyone who doesn't accept we are visited by non human intelligences is just plain mad and in a state of denial In essence , most people's views on the subject are wholly founded in the particular Zeitgeist of the society they are a product of. The kicker is of course, those very same phenomenon often mimic the expectations of a particular person's social, beliefs and scientific background. We have a mass experiment in the Fatima incident and yet, it is often as if that never actually happened at all, not just the visions, the discs, whatever people said they saw rather, thousands of people didn't gather to view something that depending on a person's belief seemed to take on whatever was "comfortable" for their psyche. It did occur and anyone wishing to truly try and gain some basic grasps of the enormity of the situation, should study the various reports of what people claimed they witnessed. The conclusion, as it stands currently, can only be your own feelings and best guess.

Remember this about one of our most intelligent relatives on this planet. For several decades scientists thought they had a genuine understanding of dolphin behaviour patterns and their social structures. Then scientists began to suspect that, dolphins being intelligent creatures were doing nothing more than exhibiting the behaviour that they surmised we wish them to adopt or, simply at times, faked their own natural reactions to certain situations whenever humans were around. So we humans became smart and started smuggling in our own "Trojan Horses" that were good enough to fool the dolphins and we discovered, well blow me, they do act totally differently away from human contact. Who can honestly say that whatever or whoever is behind the UFO phenomenon is not doing something very similar to us ? it's a perfectly reasonable stance to adopt and is based on our own scientific knowledge of two sentient creatures interacting with each other.

Consider this, we allow people who have proved themselves consistently corrupt, only interested in their own circumstances, happy to lie to suit any purpose they perceive as "good" and when confronted with their wrongdoings deny it in public even though every last piece of evidence suggests otherwise, to rule us and we don't seem to have a problem with that. Funny how some people become so damnably tetchy about the idea there might be more to our reality than we currently truly can conceptualise.

a reply to: The GUT

Duane, I'd read the post I'm replying to very carefully and with great openness. "The GUT" has dug deep into this topic and I'd say that his pristine appraisal should be read by all who are earnestly and honestly looking into this phenomena for themselves.

It's really all about knowledge, like any other subject one may study, it takes time to absorb and understand the nuances and learn how to distinguish the facts (or, at a minimum, the "most likely" theories) from the B.S.

I do want to thank you for asking the question, it's created one of the better UFO discussions we've had in a while, so, THANKS!


The best part is we haven't even got warmed up yet. I'm betting this thread goes on for years!

Maybe it’s all about faith…belief?

I often wonder whether some higher group just wants to have the energy that faith, whether it be from religion or faith in Aliens, engenders in the energy body field that serves some purpose.

Imagine the energy that faith (in anything) produces on a subtle energy level

Someone may be playing with that energy

Religious faith is going down universally so along comes another faith based phenomenon: UFOlogy... aliens…another belief/disbelief matrix sustained energetically by its own weight.

If you didn’t have the energy that the faith / no faith produces, you wouldn’t have any energy to even speak of.

If you had everybody faithful you wouldn't have faith at all=no energy to sustain it

a reply to: Tangerine

Well my friend and her 3 kids were all very calm and everyone else was acting totally irrationally and that was about 40/50 people hiding their faces from it and saying don't look at it as though that would make the terror go away.
Maybe it was mass hysteria but i myself would stick my neck out and say it was mind control,it was being used to stop the public from directly seeing it and another thing is 40/50 people seeing something like that would most likely result in the event getting into the local paper at least....but nothing.

My sightings involved a kind of mind control,it was like my thoughts had been read and acted upon.

Your own experience sounds interesting,perhaps you should make a thread on it.

originally posted by: Willtell
Maybe it’s all about faith…belief?

I often wonder whether some higher group just wants to have the energy that faith, whether it be from religion or faith in Aliens, engenders in the energy body field that serves some purpose.

Imagine the energy that faith (in anything) produces on a subtle energy level

Someone may be playing with that energy

Religious faith is going down universally so along comes another faith based phenomenon: UFOlogy... aliens…another belief/disbelief matrix sustained energetically by its own weight.

If you didn’t have the energy that the faith / no faith produces, you wouldn’t have any energy to even speak of.

If you had everybody faithful you wouldn't have faith at all=no energy to sustain it

That's an interesting theory worth exploring.

a reply to: OrionsGem

The reason i laughed was because i had been watching a documentary a few weeks before and stated i would love to see one in broad daylight as the ones on the documentary were being explained away as meteors,i wanted undeniable evidence and that i was given.Uncanny.

One thing's for sure this stuff isn’t going stale any time soon.

I just read John Keel’s old book from the 70’s Operation Trojan Horse


Probably the best UFO book I have read in years LINK

Highly recommend it.

I never knew UFOS mostly show up on Wednesday’s

a reply to: Willtell

That reminds me,there was an organized effort on Amazon to attack the books of that ilk.
Whitley Strieber book "the Key" was a victim of what looked to be a paid shill.
The said shill gave a 5 star rating for his book but went on the most idiotic half witted attempt at comedy which in effect drew derision to the book.
The same shill would then attack other books of the same genre,mainly U.F.O. books and make derisory comments and low star ratings.
There was absolutely an agenda going on.
Take a look at the amount of flack David Paulides gets on Amazon for his missing 411 books by a very vindictive remorseless critic who is hellbent on discrediting Paulides character.
It's about getting people to not read these kind of books that are borderline being interested in these topics so are easier to dissuade from picking them up and taking a deeper interest than the more seasoned individual which kind of relates to the topic of this thread.

originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: Willtell

That reminds me,there was an organized effort on Amazon to attack the books of that ilk.
Whitley Strieber book "the Key" was a victim of what looked to be a paid shill.
The said shill gave a 5 star rating for his book but went on the most idiotic half witted attempt at comedy which in effect drew derision to the book.
The same shill would then attack other books of the same genre,mainly U.F.O. books and make derisory comments and low star ratings.
There was absolutely an agenda going on.
Take a look at the amount of flack David Paulides gets on Amazon for his missing 411 books by a very vindictive remorseless critic who is hellbent on discrediting Paulides character.
It's about getting people to not read these kind of books that are borderline being interested in these topics so are easier to dissuade from picking them up and taking a deeper interest than the more seasoned individual which kind of relates to the topic of this thread.

I don't know about Strieber, but there is apparently good reason to question Paulides' character. Do some research. Sometimes that which you take as unjustified attack turns out to have merit.

a reply to: duaneology

Certainly some people post to get a reaction/bait others, some are just voicing their opinion while on lunch break or between classes whatever, others are trying to dissuade people from posting garbage threads, on and on ....

Much of the back and forth is just that different people require different levels of proof/evidence.

Imo, there is plenty of proof, provided on this very site - www.abovetopsecret.com... , and I find it hard to relate to the skeptic given what I deem to be really good evidence. But it is what it is, just try not to get too caught up in convincing everyone else they need to "see the light", and accept people are different.


Some cases are more convincing than others (radar, more or less witnesses), but its good stuff.

Some of the best cases imo
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Belgian wave, multiple sitings with military ultimately drawn in
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Westfall UFO case, objects viewed in broad daylight by 200+ students
www.abovetopsecret.com... - JAL 1628 , extended ufo encounter with radar verification.
www.abovetopsecret.com... - Trumball co ufo chase, multiple police officers.


Much of this discussion is repeated in a recent thread on the westall UFO case
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Proof of what, that UFOs exist? The majority of people already agree with that. The area of contention is regarding what they are.

a reply to: FireMoon

Truth is, people who believe we haven't been visited by non human intelligences have no more concrete proof to back their belief than those who believe we have. In the end, they are two sides of the same coin they are both believers only one side berates the other constantly for their belief whilst pretending their own stance is not based on nothing more than faith.

Care to explain that backwards thinking? Non-believers need to provide concrete proof of something non-existent? Believers have made this incredible claim that we are being visited by intelligent alien beings for years. Therefore, the burden of proof rests on your shoulders. You have to provide undeniable evidence to support your claim and haven't been able to do so despite many thousands of reports and many decades.

You can't even provide baseline factual evidence of the existence of intelligent beings outside of Earth in the galaxy or universe. A repeated SETI signal from the same area would be a good starting point, for example.

And don't try to use a courtroom analogy as others have to support your argument. This is a poorly thought out argument comparing proven existing facts- human beings, murder, burglary, rape, etc. to the non proven facts of alien beings, abductions, crashes, landings, etc.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: Jenisiz

Very good documentary. Feel like it should be forced watching to post on the ufo threads.

Yeah, or something like that. And I stopped watching UFO "documentaries" because they tend to over hype and sell you a story with their recreation animations and spooky music. I thought this was pretty straight. Really comes down to that you really cant trust any information that is "fed" to you. People that are willing and ready to believe in something are easily exploited. Good thing I have ethics and morals...sort of...otherwise I would be spinning up a doozy.

So few of us around seem to have those ethics. It's tiresome seeking out concrete truth and being labeled overly skeptic because I'm trying to protect the disclosure movement. We're labeled as tin foil wearing loons which when viewing from a third person's perspective seems apparent. I believe, but I'm not forcing others to do so without quantifiable and undeniable proof. I'm not attacking with adolescent comments about disinfo agents. No matter how strong one's beliefs are, falsifying proof is never justifiable...an issue plaguing the populace here on ATS as well the Internet in general which ONLY HURTS. The reason we're seeing less and less proof is not because they've lost interest and are probing another populace, but because we have the means to detect fraudulent claims. People lie everyday. My education has taught me to read between the lines, a crucial talent when wading through the unending and overwhelming amount of bs being claimed as of late.

There is a gargantuan difference between experiencing something and making absolutely wild claims with no proof. The latter destroys all the efforts of those struggling to prove the phenomenon. If you're not seeking proof using some type of scientific method than you're not a believer, you're the loons we're trying to distance ourselves from. Several individuals seeking answers are all too eager to find them in the wrong places.

Tangerine - Agree 100% They do exist. Extraterrestrials... maybe. But why have their craft and crude methodologies not advanced over the decades. I mean look at the basic automobile from 50 years ago.. are we that much more capable of advancing?

a reply to: smarterthanyou

What you have posted though is still just opinion pieces ( eye witnesses),
people claiming they worked here, and saw that!

Nothing at all that could be presented as hard evidence .

Remember that the US governement actively encouraged UFO sightings to
cloak their black projects.

I cme here as a openminded/beleiver looking for what I thought must be out there (evidence that i missed before i found ATS)

Now I am of the opinion that Aliens exist in the cosmos.... but have not passed this way yet.

a reply to: rigel4

I agree Mog from Zog is out there he just doesn't make day trips to Earth!

originally posted by: MKMoniker
1) Why are there stone pyramids all over the world? "Simultaneous inventions" doesn't fit, since these pyramids are also connected to civilizations with abrupt and profound "new knowledge."

2) Why do so many of these abrupt-civilizations have such an interest in astronomy and especially certain distant constellations, like Orion? This is far more than just a "marking of the seasons." Our Moon Phases do that better.

3) How do you explain away ancient cave paintings of humanoids in spacesuits, when primitive man was not into "fiction", but recording what they really saw and experienced?

4) How do you explain all the religious paintings in the Middle Ages with discs/UFOs in the sky overhead? Some even alluding to the fact that Jesus, although born on Earth, was really an Advanced Soul from off-planet? (And his virgin-birth was similar to the abduction phenomenon today, or implantation of fertilized eggs in a female host.

I know you didnt address me but as a historian I'll take a shot. Ill preface by saying that I originally believed in the ancient aliens theory too, because it "covers everything", so to speak, but it doesnt hold up under any scrutiny. Particularly the mistranslations by people who sell books... anyhow:

1) The pyramids around the world are from all different time periods. More importantly, none of them look the same! The stepped mesoamerican pyramids do not look like the babylonian ziggurats, and neither look like the egyptian pyramids. The material is different too, particularly the ziggurats were made of clay bricks. The egyptian pyramids also did not have temples at the summit! In addition, you can see the Sumerian transition, because older ziggurats were smaller than later ones!

So why the similar shape? Two reasons: physics and worship. Mountains were worshipped in many cultures, particularly the Sumerians, who believed that mountains held up the sky. Many anthropologists believe they were replicating sacred mountains.

Next, why are they smaller at the top and larger at the base? Physics. If you want to build something tall memorable, you do it however you can. They didnt have cement or superstructures in ancient times and couldnt make a thin skyscraper back then. The method they used distributed the weight brilliantly.


2) Astronomy tells the time. Calendars were more accurate in ancient times, since they followed "fixed" stars. The human brain sees patterns where there is none, and ancient peoples saw different shapes in the sky. If there was an alien connection between all cultures, why didnt they all have the same constellations?


3) You make a huge, wrong assumption that humanity was not creative in the stone age and beyond. Its true that many depictions are of things they saw, but you interpret things based on modern ideas. What reason is there not to believe they depict shamans with ceremonial headgear? We know for an absolute FACT that horned helmets and feathered headdresses existed, and hey seeing a foreigner dressed so different would be "alien" to them!


4) Religious paintings depicted religious myths and ideas. A recent thread is in the spotlight, and even though the myth and context has been proven, people still refuse to accept that this depicts a shield protecting the believers from chaos (in this case, a meteor).

While I believe in Jesus (as a philosopher at least), his existence has not been adamantly proven. His deified story is the same as Moses, its all stolen myth. Just as Moses is based on Sargon, the deification of Jesus is based on numerous pagan ideas: Persian (three magi), Scandinavian (solstice birth), Egyptian (death and resurrection), Mithraic (sun god)

a reply to: The GUT

Whatever it is--if it is--seems "closer to home" to me. Some of the world-class but "weird science" intelligence community cadre that have shown a lifelong ufological interest seem to be focusing on consciousness and non-locality issues. Maybe they do know something in THAT arena that's being hidden? It do make my antennae twitch.

That might be because your 'antennae' are twitching in resonance, just like microtubules in peoples brains resonate at various frequencies.

]Electromagnetic triplet resonance band Complete resonance band or all ac frequencies at which there is a substantial decrease in the electrical resistance of the single tubulin protein molecule and single microtubule molecule has been determined.[36] Here we copy the resonance frequencies from the published manuscript. A single Tubulin acts just like a single molecule oscillator, has three resonance bands (10^7 ~ 10^13 Hz, gap in order ~6) Triplet 1 (80–140 MHz, 180–250 MHz, 300–400 MHz); Triplet 2 (12–18 GHz, 25–50 GHz, 100–300 GHz), Triplet 3 (2–20 THz, 22–30 THz, 35–60 THz). Here 5-15THz is inaccessible THz band, wherein for a long time we had a technological gap. A single microtubule, acts just like a single molecule oscillator, the frequency ranges of three resonance bands are (10^4 ~ 10^10 Hz, gap in order ~6) Triplet 1 (15–20 kHz, 25–80 kHz, 100–300 kHz), Triplet 2 (10–19 MHz, 20–40 MHz, 100–228 MHz), Triplet 3 (1–5 GHz, 7–10 GHz, 15–30 GHz).

I have highlighted the frequency range that is quite possibly responsible for both the actual propulsion of the Black Triangular RK craft and also it's mind controlling aspects of the UFO phenomena detail by Dr Vallee.

I shall soon detail why in another thread more appropriate for that kind of information dump.

As for this threads topic, as long as people continue to have dreams of UFO's and Aliens and to follow them up in the real world, then this forum will never die and never be undermined.

Sightings are not required to have a passion for some seriously interesting phenomena to be discussed, since the Drake equation points the way to advanced civilizations far beyond our own.

Dream On!

a reply to: ForeverMan

microtubules - now we're talking!

i was lucky enough to attend a lecture on the subject many years ago given by sir roger penrose

fascinating stuff