Is there an organized effort to undermine the Aliens and UFOs forum?

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

You and possibly some others generalize people.
As so many times pointed out already, not any debunker is a "paid shill" or debunk or is skeptic because of evil intent.

If you read my post again, you will notice the lack of words, and/or, judgements about who, why, when, what or where. I never used the words paid shill, nor did I even necessarily imply that. I did say pretenders on purpose, and I do think they exist----though whose purpose they are serving I am not sure. Nor do I think they always know this about themselves, either.

This phenomena being reported also seems to go along, frequently with some glitch about the reporter….like they're unreliable in some way. I don't know why that is. I am here partly to investigate that link.

Now, of course, the report itself certainly matters to me in its voracity and accuracy. Doesn't mean I am not a close reviewer of information. I just got a reply on another UFO thread from a member who actually in detail described a craft, topside to bottom, where the thrusters were, how it worked, banked, turned, flew.
I would prefer to read reports like that, and of course, they are more reliable than triangles that turn into just three lights, which is a different thing altogether. That's about vetting the information, not just the person and if they hae some other intent.

I don't generalize anyone. It's a case by case basis for me.

originally posted by: duaneology
a reply to: tetra50

I'm not familiar with Paul Bennewitz.

do check out the Mirage Man documentary. I watched it recently and it really gave me a new perspective on this topic.

originally posted by: duaneology

originally posted by: Eagleyedobserver
lol OP, you're kinda funny! Sadly you'll see these people in divers forums and video portals.

The annoying part is that most of them are not even debunking anything. And most people who read their comments will jump on their side...

You know there is a reason why people say that something can be 'hard to believe' because it is a lot easier to not believe things.
While I agree that there is no real proof of aliens on earth There is more than enough evidence of unexplainable flying objects.

You know there has to be something to it when even atronauts are hinting at E.T life...

You mean, let me understand this cause, ya know maybe it's me, I'm a little f'ed up maybe, but I'm funny how, you mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to f'in amuse you? What do you mean funny, funny how? How am I funny?

Haha thats a good reply almost misunderstood you !

originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: duaneology
The real kicker is when you have sightings yourself and come to the conclusion that self experience changes everything and most likely the U.F.O. phenomenon involves and interacts with every single one of us on a deeper level that a lot of us do not have the courage to face and prefer to dismiss it.
I have been into this stuff for close to 2 decades and i feel it has a lot to do with spirituality,it is very sophisticated and massively complex and is so much more than Aliens visiting the Planet in nuts and bolts crafts.

Most people switch off if you mention this stuff or think you need certifying but the more you investigate the more you understand the truly raving tin foil hat wearers are the knee jerk debunkers and sceptics whether they are paid to do it or not they are working against humanity and ultimately themselves.

Let's examine your claims: "...most likely the U.F.O. phenomenon involves and interacts with every single one of us on a deeper level that a lot of us do not have the courage to face and prefer to dismiss it." I'm a skeptic and i'm not dismissing it. Tell us what you actually mean in straightforward terms, please.

Another of your claims: "...the truly raving tin foil hat wearers are the knee jerk debunkers and sceptics..." I'm a skeptic. How am I a raving tin foil hat wearer? Is it because I ask people to explain themselves? Is it because I distinguish between beliefs and facts? Is it because I require testable evidence before accepting claims that Queen Elizabeth is a reptoid from another planet?

Let's turn the tables and I'll play a True Believer who tells you that a race of insects from planet Zork, far outside our solar system, have teleported to your city, are living under the local 7-11 store, and have taken over your school board. It only appears that the school board members are human. They're really insectoids bent on sucking the brain matter out of your children's heads (they need it for food) and replacing the brain matter with styrofoam. Your children's grades are dropping. Even though you've had your children's brains CAT scanned, the real results have been replaced with old CAT scans by doctors who are also insectoids. The evidence that I present to prove this is overwhelming: the school board members all arrive at school board meetings at the same time and several carpool. Obviously, they're insectoids conspiring. Your children's grades are slipping and they're brattier at home. The 7-11 exists and, if you pay attention, you'll notice new "people" shopping there. Now, how dare you question me or challenge my claims?

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

originally posted by: duaneology
a reply to: tetra50

I'm not familiar with Paul Bennewitz.

do check out the Mirage Man documentary. I watched it recently and it really gave me a new perspective on this topic.

Very good documentary. Feel like it should be forced watching to post on the ufo threads.

When I first joined this forum I was much more likely to believe that the multiplicity of YouTube videos, and Ancient Aliens theorising was in fact likely to be true. In the just over 2 short years I've been here my own point of view has altered somewhat, to the point where I recognise many of these theories, and videos of balloons, blobs of light (often conventional aircraft), and CGI for the rubbish that they are. This is through a process of induction, and paying attention to what other more learned posters have to say.

A lot of the so called debunkers know exactly what they are talking about. Photographic experts, and people who have worked for NASA I tend to hold in far higher esteem (as they have experience and scientific knowledge to back them up) rather than somebody with a YouTube clip of the ilk of 'Giant Ufos orbiting the sun'.

In my opinion there is a mystery wrapped in an enigma, and excellent researched threads written by members like the GUT, Mirageman, Karl12, and others represent the essence of ATS to me. I find little dogmatism in these threads, but rather an open mindedness, and willingness to analyse and discuss. I do believe there absolutely is something fascinating and strange to the Ufo phenomena, but that has never adequately been quantified for myself. It certainly doesn't stop me wondering though.

Calling other members 'shills' just make the posters doing the name calling look foolish.

originally posted by: tetra50
a reply to: The GUT
But don't you think that along with this topic, there's plenty of prentenders of purpose to debunk everyone else who may be totally sane and truthful? In other words, they are there in an organized effort to make it all look like fruit from the poison tree, when it may not all be that way.
tetra

Do I think something related to the phenomena is being hidden? My opinion is yeah. Do I think it's ET being obfuscated? I used to lean that way, but I can't these days unless something weighty comes along.

We have more REAL evidence of various government agencies promoting ET than of covering them up. That might in itself speak volumes. Of course, I know you are very familiar with that aspect, so I'm not telling you anything.

Whatever it is--if it is--seems "closer to home" to me. Some of the world-class but "weird science" intelligence community cadre that have shown a lifelong ufological interest seem to be focusing on consciousness and non-locality issues. Maybe they do know something in THAT arena that's being hidden? It do make my antennae twitch.

a reply to: The GUT

Sorry, apparently his catheter was wrapped around his neck.

a reply to: The GUT

valle touches on some related ideas in this lecture:

link

originally posted by: Jenisiz

Very good documentary. Feel like it should be forced watching to post on the ufo threads.

Yeah, or something like that. And I stopped watching UFO "documentaries" because they tend to over hype and sell you a story with their recreation animations and spooky music. I thought this was pretty straight. Really comes down to that you really cant trust any information that is "fed" to you. People that are willing and ready to believe in something are easily exploited. Good thing I have ethics and morals...sort of...otherwise I would be spinning up a doozy.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
People that are willing and ready to believe in something are easily exploited. Good thing I have ethics and morals...sort of...otherwise I would be spinning up a doozy.

You can probably get paid for that (DARPA) if you construct it in such a way as to glean and confirm indicators of persuasion. You'd need a community though...

a reply to: The GUT

As always you elucidate excellent points. The government, and coverup issues are obvious now.

Some of the world-class but "weird science" intelligence community cadre that have shown a lifelong interest seem to be focusing on consciousness and non-locality issues.

But I think we both know this is what's been on my mind, as well. But they know things I haven't yet figured out how they know, and why they're killing over it…..

As far back as I can remember people have tried to discredit anything Alien related. You will always have these people that do that and they come from all walks of life, including the conspiracy community. It's just something that happens from time to time.

a reply to: Tangerine

I said knee jerk sceptic,healthy sceptism is normal.

Straight forward terms,well ill give you an example,there's a form of mind control going on.
A friend of mine was walking down a busy high street with her three kids when she saw a metallic ball like object floating above a store.She started to shout to all the passers by to look at it but everyone was in a terrified state and were staring at the floor shielding their faces and saying back don't look at it until it disappeared and they carried on as normal.A have a few other examples of mass mind control but they are too long winded.
My point about knee jerk sceptics is after personal experience with the U.F.O.'s myself is that they are in for one hell of a shock.99% of the witnesses involved have nothing to gain by coming forward,it's a personal thing meant for that person to see.
They deny the existence of U.F.O.s with such an adamant stance that is mind boggling.
Many people believe in God but dismiss the whole U.F.O./Alien agenda as they have never seen any evidence.
Well i've never seen God but i've seen a U.F.O.

a reply to: duaneology

Wait a minute... You start this big thread calling into question the motives of the members of number one UFO forum on the entirety of the internet and you aren't familiar with Paul Bennewitz? Really?!

I swear I'm not intending to demean or be mean, but, DAMN!

REALLY?!

originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: Tangerine

I said knee jerk sceptic,healthy sceptism is normal.

Straight forward terms,well ill give you an example,there's a form of mind control going on.
A friend of mine was walking down a busy high street with her three kids when she saw a metallic ball like object floating above a store.She started to shout to all the passers by to look at it but everyone was in a terrified state and were staring at the floor shielding their faces and saying back don't look at it until it disappeared and they carried on as normal.A have a few other examples of mass mind control but they are too long winded.
My point about knee jerk sceptics is after personal experience with the U.F.O.'s myself is that they are in for one hell of a shock.99% of the witnesses involved have nothing to gain by coming forward,it's a personal thing meant for that person to see.
They deny the existence of U.F.O.s with such an adamant stance that is mind boggling.
Many people believe in God but dismiss the whole U.F.O./Alien agenda as they have never seen any evidence.
Well i've never seen God but i've seen a U.F.O.

I think you're confusing skeptics with debunkers. You know, most people do believe that UFOs exist. They simply aren't in agreement about what they are.

It doesn't take mind control for people to try to convince themselves they didn't see something that frightens them. It's a pretty normal response. Another normal response, for those who don't convince themselves they didn't see something, is to rationalize what they did see to fit in with their belief systems. Some people have pretty narrow, rigid belief systems and some of us have expansive, flexible belief systems. That is, we're open to considering new possibilities. That said, I'm not dismissing the possibility of some sort of directed mind control.

originally posted by: Finn1916
As far back as I can remember people have tried to discredit anything Alien related. You will always have these people that do that and they come from all walks of life, including the conspiracy community. It's just something that happens from time to time.

What IS alien related?

a reply to: Tangerine

Even though you are not dismissing it mate you will most likely have to undergo some kind of experience yourself to understand the difference between people pretending they didn't see something because it frightened them and people being locked into a state of mind controlled terror.
It also seemed to my friend that something had unlocked in their minds and on a subconscious level they knew exactly what it was and were familiar with it or what it represented.


My reaction at seeing a U.F.O. in broad daylight by myself in an isolated place was i started laughing,i can't see a whole bunch of people reacting like that as we are all different personalities and they were in a crowded place.

originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: Tangerine

Even though you are not dismissing it mate you will most likely have to undergo some kind of experience yourself to understand the difference between people pretending they didn't see something because it frightened them and people being locked into a state of mind controlled terror.
It also seemed to my friend that something had unlocked in their minds and on a subconscious level they knew exactly what it was and were familiar with it or what it represented.


My reaction at seeing a U.F.O. in broad daylight by myself in an isolated place was i started laughing,i can't see a whole bunch of people reacting like that as we are all different personalities and they were in a crowded place.

Was your friend referring to himself with he said something had unlocked in their minds and on a subconscious level s/he knew what it was and what it represented or was he speculating about the others. If the latter, what would have led him to reach that conclusion? If they appeared to be terrified (based on facial expression, etc.), it's pretty easy to reach the conclusion that they were terrified, but I don't understand how he concluded the rest unless it's pure speculation.

I do understand what you mean about people reacting uniquely and seemingly strangely to something.

I did have an experience in the company of a friend in which we saw something "out of place" (not a UFO), stopped and attempted to interact with it and, failing to do so, drove away. It was very strange but we both forgot about it for a couple weeks then, suddenly, the memory of it popped back into my consciousness. As soon as I mentioned it to my friend, he, too, remembered it. We were both baffled as to how we could have forgotten the incident rather than discussing it right after it happened and trying to make sense of it.

originally posted by: Springer
a reply to: duaneology

Wait a minute... You start this big thread calling into question the motives of the members of number one UFO forum on the entirety of the internet and you aren't familiar with Paul Bennewitz? Really?!

I swear I'm not intending to demean or be mean, but, DAMN!

REALLY?!

I know what you mean, but I think Duane has potential. And this has been a really good discussion it seems. Front page, too!

I also believe some impact has been made here.

duaneology: The modern ufo mythology is powerful. We've seen--in this thread--elements of MJ12 and Dulce and a host of other things that continue to lead good folk astray and to spin their wheels in muck. If you really want the truth, neither of those two are very hard to figure out AND you'll understand when elements of those hoaxes/disinfo pop up in other "stories." Plus, you'll be taken more seriously. I'm open to any new information that lend them credence, but at this point I'm not expecting any.

It's time I think to leave Roswell and Dulce behind. Heck, even Rendlesham imo (I loved that one too, once.) To those that are newer to the UFO arena, educate yourselves, dig deep and some of that which hold us back disappears.

I buy very few UFO books these days because I've learned more here than in all of the books and documentaries I've perused along the way. And our true skeptics--as opposed to debunkers--are one of our greatest resources. I've personally learned a lot from them. Oberg, too.

Once the easily recognized dreck is thoroughly purged from our systems, then we stand a much better chance of finding something chewy. It might even start suggesting different possibilities no less full of wonder.