You have all been duped.

Dear Frosty,

I was in the AF in the early 60's. I was a medic that worked in an AF hospital ER. There was a doctor (Captain) that I worked regularly with and we became close friends over a two year period.
One late night sitting around a pot of coffee, the conversation turned to the subject of "ET's". The doctor asked if I believed in the idea of intelligent life beyond earth. and I said I didn't think so.
He told me that he was previously assigned to Wright Patterson AFB in Ohio and while there he had seen frozen alien bodies in a highly secure area of the base. He said the bodies had been recovered in Roswell, NM. in 1947 from a crashed flying saucer. Believe it or scoff at it, I don't care.

There was no reason to disprove something that did not exist in the first place.

so why do they try Frosty?

Public demand/hysteria over UFO information.

So in your opinion, they created a phenomenon, and then set about disproving it.

To what end?

It's a bit like starting a fire, just to put it out...

I.e., they didn't create it, and your original argument is faulty...

[edit on 16-12-2004 by Gazrok]

Why would the government lie about the mogul? project and what it was doing in the first place? To incite people to believe that the government is hiding something, so then they come out with Blue Book to further highten any hysteria.

Frosty

With your persevering argueing on the alien issue, one wonders what attracted you to a forum on Aliens?

I think it's a positive sign of curiosity no matter the reason. Is it because you really feel inside there might be some truth to it? Is it because you want us all to "wake up and smell the coffee"? (this would in essence be trying to "help" us with good intention).


Sincerly

Cade

So what if i told you i've seen them? oh wait i can see it 'dumb words' plz hold the cheese.

Bad stance, you could reference this to anything meant to be believed. Every reason for why you believe everyone's been mislead are the exact same contradictions people use as childish ignorance tools to block someone elses belief and make themselves feel superior. It all boils down to name calling in this circumstance.

Originally posted by Aether
So what if i told you i've seen them? oh wait i can see it 'dumb words' plz hold the cheese.

Bad stance, you could reference this to anything meant to be believed. Every reason for why you believe everyone's been mislead are the exact same contradictions people use as childish ignorance tools to block someone elses belief and make themselves feel superior. It all boils down to name calling in this circumstance.

aaahhh the fear of ridicule. Yes, this tool is being used by those who NEEDS to cover it up (if they want to keep their power) as well as their conformed accomplishes who debunk every UFO evidence for free, because that's what they have been told to do via the authorities mind games.... look how Phoenix handled the Phoenix lights to the press, they ridiculed the whole thing by showing of someone in an ET suit in front of the press.


Sincerly

Cade

There is no point to talk to a rock TROLL.

Without evidence you shout stuff here to cause commotion yet you are a puppet of your own stupidity.

Public demand/hysteria over UFO information.

And why is there such world wide "demand/hysteria over ufo information" if they dont exist?

LOL he/she asks a very important question I would like to see the answer...in the truest (is that a word : P ) form possibly.

Why would the government lie about the mogul? project and what it was doing in the first place? To incite people to believe that the government is hiding something, so then they come out with Blue Book to further highten any hysteria.

Some inciting, since it lay buried for 30 years....
Again, about as much since as lighting a fire just to put it out...

It's obvious your mind is quite closed on the matter. We've presented evidence, you've presented supposition. The ball is in your court and it's up to you to decide your own position on it. If you wish to ignore the evidence, that is certainly your perogative, but I wouldn't expect too much company on that ship of dreams.

You are all terribly terribly wrong... ...and I can't prove it!

(grin)

See, what we have here are two diametrically opposed sides, with lots and lots of reason, logic, and conviction, but no hard evidence in support of their statements. That's the inherent flaw in a discussion like this. Any of us can come up with any theory we want to explain everything from Roswell to Stealth Jets... but unless you have proof, it's nothing more than a philosophical or religious discussion, and should be treated as such.

Now think about how hard it is to convince someone else that their religion is wrong, and how yours is right. Now also think about how very few people on this planet have the capicity to seriously think about philosophical quandries, and how easily confused the rest end up. A good example is that this post will more than likely be ignored, and people will continue arguing on a point that can never be won by either side until concrete evidence is presented.

If however, someone can grok what I'm saying, let's see if we can take a more philosophical instead of arguementative approach to this, because it is an intriguing subject regardless.

So for those of you who are a proponant of military jets pretending to be UFOs, I would ask to what aim and purpose? After all, the testing of X-Planes is easily enough done in secret at Groom Lake (aka The Ranch). A place so secure that no one has managed to get inside it, and to get a story out, unless it was approved. There is ample space there. And at night, there is ample room in the skies everywhere. Jaynes magazine keeps excellent documentation, and had specs on Auroroa long before it became announced publically, due to dilligent sky-watching, interviews, and respectability. With other non-hoax UFOs, seen during the day, in areas not secured, why wouldn't Jaynes have any record, and why would the military risk such flights? And moreso, what would be the point in sewing distrust and animosity among the populace towards the government at large? What would you say they hope to accomplish?

And to those of you who believe they are UFOs and not military aircraft, what is it that makes you believe the UFOs would deal strictly with the government, and limit their contact in this way? How can you so easily assume we can even reach a level of communication possible that a deal could be struck and held to? Would you agree that aliens are the religion of the 20th century? After all, with no proof, only signs and omens, so many believe in these beings so much more powerful and more mysterious than ourselves. In many religions, there is a need to evangelize and spread the word. Perhaps in old and ancient art, these UFOs are the artists way of evangelizing their religions in the same way that classical artists might portray Jesus, or the Tower of Babylon, or Moshe...

I am curious to hear insights, not arguements and mud-slinging. Would anyone humor me?

Excellent post thelibra. I'll give my quick two cents on the matter.

On taking a more philosophical approach to this, i think you're jumping the gun on one thing...you assume that the truth has to be logical. Why? If something so fantastic as the existance of UFO's and EBE's were real, wouldnt that possibly be worth rethinking all that we thought of logic? Would you agree that our logic shouldnt only stretch as far as our knowledge of physics and the universe? The evidence we have of things like secret military testing of X-planes and UFO's piloted by other worldly beings is so inconclusive that we must leave ourselves open to ANY possibility, and any motive of why they're operating the way they are even if it would seem illogical. My point here is, given that we're under the impression that the fantastic is at hand here i dont believe we can approach this subject with ordinary logic.

To protect themselves from the inevitable lawsuits that would follow. Plus it would generate a general distrust in their supposed "mandate from the people". The gov't, if you haven't noticed, has lied to the American people and the world on pratically everything from the current war on terror to it's financial dealings to the irradiation of mentally disabled in the 50's. The list is long and sad.

WOW if every single sighting over the last 50 or so years was a cover up for U.S secret experimental aircraft i think we could safely take over the universe LOL

Why would the Gov't lie???

It is not just why would they lie. We know it is the cover up that is the problem, from Watergate to Lewinsky, the truth is not nearly as scurrilous as the coverup.

So if the great UFO/Aliens/Govt conspiracy really exists, where is the Geraldo Rivera expose? We live in a society where secrets like this are eventually exposed by our ravenous media. NOTHING would stop these reporters from getting to the bottom of this story, IF there really was a story there.

Ratings is everything to these people, and folks, lets face it, this would be THE story, THE scoop, in the entire history of the human race.

So whats stopping the media? Is it alien mind control? Is it the Govt cracking down on naughty reporters poking their nose in where it does not belong? Is it the fact that these aliens are so godawfully powerful that their mind control now extends to the editors at Time, Newsweek and Astronomy Today?

Or is it the fact that there just IS no story here?

(guess what I think)

Since I'm a natural fence-sitter on most issues, I'll go ahead and consider both sides...

Government Lies to Cover Up X-Planes - It seems illogical to me that they would lie about UFOs if there was currently non-hostile contact with them. The benefits on our side would far outweigh the need for secrecy. New energy sources, new technology, new methods of propulsion, new electronics, new biomachines... all sorts of things that could be exploited (for good or bad) from our sole contact with the aliens would put us on the #1 Most Chosen Nation spot. If, in fact, there is a NWO conspiracy by our government, then if they were the ones that had dealings with the aliens, then they would have more to gain by waving that flag in front of the other countries. Think of the effect of this on the other nations of the world. In the worst case scenario, we would be seen as the most powerful nation then, with the mystic authority of having the aliens on our side. In the best case scenario, we would be seen as those who are in touch with the gods themselves (since some would have aliens be our gods). The worldwide boost to economy, and perhaps boosts in peace, would be miraculous.

Now, if the contact were hostile, or at least a good portion of it was hostile, then I could see the neccessity to cover it up to avoid nationwide and worldwide panic. Think about how most people would react if they knew a hostile alien race with superior technology was attacking Earth. You'd have about 10% arming themselves to the teeth, preparing to shoot anything remotely resembling a UFO, and probably end up shooting our own aircraft or any friendly aliens in the process. The next 10% would probably start a subversion to give our government over to the aliens. The remaining 80% would be a mixture of panic and horror. Perhaps, depending on the truth, mass suicides, mass riots, looting... how many of you could go to work each day, knowing there was a war being waged between your government and the aliens? Think about how quickly the global economy would crash to a halt if this were true.

So, my conclusion here would be that if the government is covering up the presence of aliens among us, then it is probably for a good reason. If the aliens are friendly, there's really no logical reason to cover it up.

I'll explore the other side in my next post, but right now my cinnamon rolls are done and I want to eat.

I have covered why a government would cover-up this up, irrespective of whether the contacts are hostile or benign, so do a search on that. To summarise:

You seem to confuse them as a part of us. Your assumption is that the government is looking out for our best interests. That is an irrational belief in as of itself.

Which government are you refering to Indigo?