Is that a Drill Sergeant or a Police Officer? Belligerent Cop Loses it On Man for Knowing His Rights

I'm kind of interested to see how much more they will get away with be for something is done. All we see are camera footage and a couple feel better speeches at best, there is a rare time when someone is removed from the job and not just put off to the side or move to a different area.

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

I just do not understand cops who like to ESCALATE things.

It's how they're trained now. They are trained that they HAVE to "seize control of the situation", which pretty much requires this sort of behavior. The goal is to induce unquestioning obedience and fear in the subject, which is, of course, you. If shrieking in your face and posturing like an enraged chimp does it, great, otherwise they get all beat-y.

It's actually hard to have a normal conversation with someone who's been a cop for a while. All you have to do to elicit this sort of behavior is disagree with them. Or, far worse, wait until they get huffy and aggressive, then LAUGH. That's pretty much like waving a red cape and scuffing your feet in front of the dairy bull, though.

Grant you, agencies that use canned psych questionnaires to select for "good cop material" end up selecting cops for a high narcissism index, and that includes an inability to tolerate disagreement. That as starting material and a lot of training in "seizing control of the situation" which basically means shutting you up and making you cringe in abject fear, and this is what you get. It's also why you find a really strong correlation between wife and child abuse and being considered "a good cop" by your peers.

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

I just do not understand cops who like to ESCALATE things.

I agree with your post but we need to consider that the driver was all set up with the clear intention of getting things escalated and recorded - he succeeded. I doubt the officers were interested in playing semantic games and this guy's antics were holding things up longer than necessary.

originally posted by: Pilgrum

I doubt the officers were interested in playing semantic games and this guy's antics were holding things up longer than necessary.

An officer's interest is of no importance to me. If I had acted toward that officer the way he acted toward the guy in the video, I'd be beaten and arrested, or vice versa. The behavior was unprofessional at least, actionable in court at best. Of course, cops can get away with this due to a distinct lack of oversight and feedback on their behavior.

I dont understand why you guys think Roadblocks are unconstitutional. You are informed, on your driver's license test booklet that driving on state roads is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. It is 100% constitutional. We have the RIGHT to ensure you are complying with state requirements for you to be driving on those roads.

If you dont like roadblocks, then dont drive .... you won't ever have to deal with one if you dont like it.

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In Mississippi, police officers have the right to make you identify yourself / show I.D at any point of time during official police business. Police officers have the right to make you show a valid drivers license at any point of time if you are behind a steering wheel on public roads. Police officers have the right to make you step out of the vehicle at any point of time during a roadblock or traffic stop. Police officers can do a pat down at any time during official police business to make sure you do not have any illegal weapons (note this is different than a search of your person).

If you pull up to a roadblock and barely roll down your window, that's going to raise suspicion big time. I'll ask you to pull off to the side if you do not roll it down most of the way. This is for officer safety, and to see if you have something to hide. Ill usually ask you to step out of the vehicle as well. I do this to see if there is an obvious odor of drugs and alcohol or signs of impairment.

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I do not do this for authority. I actually end up hurting way more people than i help. How do you hurt them? Taking them to jail, tickets, serving warrants, making them do something they dont want to do. However, the few people i get the opportunity to help are totally worth people disliking me and the risk of life.

a reply to: Bedlam

I agree with most people here that the officer's behavior was reprehensible. I am certain that he wasn't the one who decided to set up an unconstitutional check point, he was told to go there and check documents.

If you are at work and someone decides that they are going to rock the boat and make everyone's day harder just to prove a point by following the rules to the n'th degree it would piss you off too.

In the end cops are just as lazy as the rest of us and want the same thing we all do when we go to work, to do as little as possible and go home.

The roadside is not the place to try changing policy. File a lawsuit for being illegally detained, afterwards. Write letters to the state legislature demanding review of policies in violation of the 4th amendment, afterwards.

You can not always talk yourself out of a ticket on the side of the road, but you sure as hell can talk yourself into one.

a reply to: nighthawk1954

Ugh, so yes, the police officer is being over the top, but so is the driver in my opinion.

In the time it took him to inform the officer that he was being recorded, ask why he was being pulled over, and then ask 15x if he was being detained, he could have just shown him his license and moved on with life. And I'm sure I'm just "being a sheep" in thinking this, but really - as many legit injustices as there are, and as many legit instances of police officers stepping out of line as there are, this guy chooses to flip out over a run-of-the-mill checkpoint? It just seems like a waste of time and effort. I'm all for exposing injustices, etc. but in this case the officers were just doing their job and he chose to barely even let them proceed with all of his ridiculous questioning. Come on... if this is your passion, great, but choose something better than a checkpoint to get it out of your system.

And again, I'm not excusing the second officer's behavior in anyway; it is completely unacceptable. But there is more than one person acting a fool in this video, IMO.

originally posted by: K3vMan
a reply to: Bedlam
The roadside is not the place to try changing policy. File a lawsuit for being illegally detained, afterwards. Write letters to the state legislature demanding review of policies in violation of the 4th amendment, afterwards.

Agree with this completely. It's really a lazy way to take up a cause, IMO. He's basically being an armchair activist. "I'll try to goad a public officer into stepping out of line by being a complete pain and then post my video to youtube!"

If you want to effect change, great - I applaud you; there are many things that need it. But get out and do some actual work for it, don't just drive around with a camera waiting for someone you can bait into yelling at you. You might get your 15 minutes of fame, but it won't get you much else.

"The biggest gang I know they call: the Government, and the gang is the weapon that you trade your mind in for."

dwiving is a pwivwedge not a wite.....dwiving is a pwivwedge not a wite...

thats what i heard...

not lying though. i would have been freaked out too if the fop would have pulled my door open hulk style.
thats probably what he was going for.

remember, dwiving is a pwivwedge not a wite

I don't think there is anything wrong with having to produce your licence/proof of ID.

The guy was being a smart ass. The cop wasn't brutal...just pissed off with having to put up with a smart ass.

in AU we get random checks all the time...

doesn't worry me at all.

In Mississippi, police officers have the right to make you identify yourself / show I.D at any point of time during official police business.

Patently untrue. Mississippi is not a "stop and identify" state, and Hiibel doesn't hold there. You cannot be forced to identify unless arrested. Even then, you need not present any sort of photo ID, just pedigree information.

Police officers have the right to make you show a valid drivers license at any point of time if you are behind a steering wheel on public roads. Police officers have the right to make you step out of the vehicle at any point of time during a roadblock or traffic stop. Police officers can do a pat down at any time during official police business to make sure you do not have any illegal weapons (note this is different than a search of your person).

Yes, if you are driving you have to give them an ID if requested - it's a state licensed activity. Yes, they can ask you to step out, if it doesn't endanger your life - they can't make you step into the highway, for example, although I've had one try to make me. No, technically they cannot frisk you without having an articulable reason to believe you are armed and dangerous, although in practice like so many other circumstances, they will simply lie their asses off to justify their actions.

If you're doing patdowns of every driver thinking you're in the clear on this, eventually you're going to do it to someone with money and a lawyer, and that's when you'll find out you're wrong about that one.

If you pull up to a roadblock and barely roll down your window, that's going to raise suspicion big time. I'll ask you to pull off to the side if you do not roll it down most of the way. This is for officer safety, and to see if you have something to hide.

Perhaps you can point out in what way rolling down the window is for officer safety. What it's FOR is so you can reach into the car. Which is handy on your part, but hardly a legal requirement.

Ill usually ask you to step out of the vehicle as well. I do this to see if there is an obvious odor of drugs and alcohol or signs of impairment.

So, you can't smell drugs or alcohol through the window? Most cops claim to be able to do this from cars at highway speed. One might think that the odors would be concentrated inside the car. Or, of course, you're getting them to step out in order to "get control of the situation" and put the driver on the defensive.

I do not do this for authority. I actually end up hurting way more people than i help.

That's the first thing you've written that's believable.

originally posted by: K3vMan
a reply to: Bedlam

In the end cops are just as lazy as the rest of us and want the same thing we all do when we go to work, to do as little as possible and go home.

Yeah, but in general, if I have to do some more work, I don't get to shriek at, injure, abuse, kill, or deprive the people I work for of their freedom. Or shoot their dogs. Although I'd really like to at times, I admit.

That added authority should carry added responsibility and oversight, alas, it carries less.

originally posted by: jw3714
And again, I'm not excusing the second officer's behavior in anyway; it is completely unacceptable. But there is more than one person acting a fool in this video, IMO.

Agreed - not sure why the guy has a problem with roadside stops, in general.

However, I have been through a couple that seemed to be manned by total idiots. Done well, they're not particularly intrusive. Done by idiots, they're time consuming and pointless.

a reply to: Bedlam

Patently untrue. Mississippi is not a "stop and identify" state, and Hiibel doesn't hold there. You cannot be forced to identify unless arrested. Even then, you need not present any sort of photo ID, just pedigree information.

We have what's called Terry vs Ohio that gives us a ton of room to do a field stop and fill out field contact cards on the street. It's very easy to articulate suspicion .......

When we are doing a Terry stop, Traffic Stop, road block, or are on a call in which you are involved the State of Mississippi, if a police officer requests your I.D. , You MUST provide it. If you fail to provide it, you can provide your Name, Date of Birth, and Social Security number.

Yes, if you are driving you have to give them an ID if requested - it's a state licensed activity. Yes, they can ask you to step out, if it doesn't endanger your life - they can't make you step into the highway, for example, although I've had one try to make me. No, technically they cannot frisk you without having an articulable reason to believe you are armed and dangerous, although in practice like so many other circumstances, they will simply lie their asses off to justify their actions.

No, we can ask you to step out on the highway during a roadblock if the situation is dire enough. However, we aren't stupid and make you pull to the side. Yes, we can do a PAT DOWN for officer safety, that's our reason, and you can articulate that in several different ways. The department has been sued several times already and not one has succeeded on pat downs.

Perhaps you can point out in what way rolling down the window is for officer safety. What it's FOR is so you can reach into the car. Which is handy on your part, but hardly a legal requirement.

The window thing is mainly for officer safety and for investigative purposes.

So, you can't smell drugs or alcohol through the window? Most cops claim to be able to do this from cars at highway speed. One might think that the odors would be concentrated inside the car. Or, of course, you're getting them to step out in order to "get control of the situation" and put the driver on the defensive.

I dont think this statement needs much of a response.

That's the first thing you've written that's believable.

I dont think you know what you're talking about.

originally posted by: jw3714
If you want to effect change, great - I applaud you; there are many things that need it. But get out and do some actual work for it, don't just drive around with a camera waiting for someone you can bait into yelling at you. You might get your 15 minutes of fame, but it won't get you much else.

Yep - it's a target rich environment - you can easily catch cops doing unlawful things. My favorite is around Christmas when the locals try issuing traffic cites in the mall parking lot. NOTHING fires them up like being caught doing that on video.

originally posted by: milkyway12 If you dont like roadblocks, then dont drive

if you don't like random ID checks, stay at home

if you don't like stop and search, stay at home

if you don't like total surveillance of your every move, stay at home

if you don't like corrupt governments but fear you might get arrested for protesting, stay at home


best just to keep your head down i suppose?

originally posted by: Thurisaz
I don't think there is anything wrong with having to produce your licence/proof of ID.

The guy was being a smart ass. The cop wasn't brutal...just pissed off with having to put up with a smart ass.

in AU we get random checks all the time...

doesn't worry me at all.

was the cop within his rights to rip open the door cause the driver was asking questions?
the driver was calm and asked questions.
the cop flew into a micro rage

originally posted by: milkyway12
a reply to: Bedlam

We have what's called Terry vs Ohio that gives us a ton of room to do stop and do field contacts on the street. It's very easy to articulate suspicion .......

When we are doing a Terry stop, Traffic Stop, road block, or are on a call in which you are involved the State of Mississippi, if a police officer requests your I.D. , You MUST provide it. If you fail to provide it, you can provide your Name, Date of Birth, and Social Security number. If we are doing a Terry stop, Traffic Stop, road block, or are on a call in which you are involved.

Yep, that's what I was talking about in this post. In order to do a patdown under Terry, you must have a clear and articulable suspicion that the detainee is armed and dangerous. And of course, as you say, "It's very easy to articulate suspicion", i.e. lie your ass off to get your way. Nice to see you admit to it. Do you find that honorable? Or are you just good at justifying it to yourself?

As for Terry requiring you to identify, it does not, at least not in Mississippi. That was the entire point of Hiibel. A state MUST have a court approved stop and identify statute to force ID under Terry, and Mississippi is not one of those states. You seem to be confusing Hiibel and Terry. Terry does NOT require anyone to provide ID. Hiibel established that a state MAY, if it's written in such a way to be constitutional, establish state law requiring identification under Terry. Mississippi does not have such a law.

No, we can ask you to step out on the highway during a roadblock if the situation is dire enough.

Odd, I stated that you could. You're trying to correct me agreeing with you. I guess you didn't read the comment. Typical.

Yes, we can do a PAT DOWN for officer safety, that's our reason, and you can articulate that in several different ways. The department has been sued several times already and not one has succeeded on pat downs.

Some snarks are boojums. Keep going, you'll hit the right one eventually.

The window thing is mainly for officer safety and for investigative purposes.

Again...exactly HOW does it enhance officer safety? Or how does it help you investigate, and what does it assist an investigation in? I asked you that the first time, and you somehow haven't been able to come up with a reason.

Let's try it this way - "Having your window all the way down makes me safer because...... "

I dont think this statement needs much of a response.

I don't think you can come up with one.

I dont think you know what you're talking about.

Ok. Let's see you come up with the Mississippi state law that allows you to obtain my identity on a Terry stop. Code and paragraph, please. I'll wait. (crickets)

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: buster2010

Catch up with my convo w/jhn7537 to hear my pov.

Regardless what your POV is in America if you have broken no laws then the police have no right in stopping you. Americans have the right to go about freely without undue harassment.