Did Jesus say anything about gay folk?.

originally posted by: flammadraco

In my opinion, it is religion that has devolved and held humanity back. As a species we should be a thousand years ahead in Scientific discovery but we were held back because of religion.

Germany were decades ahead of everyone else when it come to technology, what religion decided they should be annihilated? And taking into consideration they done nothing different to what modern countries are doing today - Genocide.

i believe every religion despises gay folks.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

Again. Leviticus are laws for the Levites in particular, not laws for the general populace.

Jesus didn't mention homosexuality. In regard to Sodom and Gomorrah, Adma and Zeboyim, they were destroyed because of unsound religious ceremonies, including rape of animals and same-sex sex magic on the altar of God. Even i would call that disgusting and if I lived back then I might have wanted to torch the gasses underneath those cities and blown them to smitherines.

Paul doesn't refer to homosexuality, but adultary.

GOD's intention originally was for all the Hebrews to be priests unto Him. When an incident of physical and spiritual adultery overtook the Israelites, The tribe of Levi were the only ones to kill the guilty and assuage the wrath of GOD. REMEMBER: GOD said 'These are My rules, these are My expectations. If you obey them, you will be My people and I will be your GOD' If you wish to enter into a covenant relationship with Me, here are the requirements, and here are the consequences. It's up to you; Come under My authority or go your own way'. The Levitical laws were instructions for the population as well as the priests. Everything from dietary law to sacrifice to sexual relations pertained to EVERYONE, not just the priests. Please re-read it.

As for Jesus not mentioning homosexuality.....Jesus said He didn't come to do away with the Law. Adultery is mentioned as a capital offence in the law. Jesus came and brought mercy, but what did He say to the woman caught in adultery? 'Go and feel free to do it again'? No, 'Go and SIN NO MORE'. Any attempt to imply Jesus was referring to her whole life rather than the specific sin she had been brought before Him on is to deliberately miss the point.
אִישׁ שָׁכַב זָכָר מִשְׁכָּב אִשָּׁה שְׁנַיִם עָשָׂה תּוֹעֵבָה
Is pretty self explanatory and cannot be confused for anything other than 'male having sex with another male is an abomination to GOD'. There is no inference of use in religious worship or ceremony. It is in context with a long list of other sexual and relational patterns of acceptable behaviour.
If you choose not to believe this, you are ignoring the word given to the people from Moses by GOD.
And Jesus said 'If you don't believe Moses, you wont believe Me'.


Paul wrote: 'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.'
He is referring to more than just adultery here. μοιχός = adulterers. μαλακός = homosexual or translated effeminate/catamites. ἀρσενοκοίτης=sodomites.
Explain to me why a sexual behaviour pattern was named after a city if not for reasons of being synonymous with the act?

originally posted by: Lucius Driftwood

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

Again. Leviticus are laws for the Levites in particular, not laws for the general populace.

Jesus didn't mention homosexuality. In regard to Sodom and Gomorrah, Adma and Zeboyim, they were destroyed because of unsound religious ceremonies, including rape of animals and same-sex sex magic on the altar of God. Even i would call that disgusting and if I lived back then I might have wanted to torch the gasses underneath those cities and blown them to smitherines.

Paul doesn't refer to homosexuality, but adultary.

GOD's intention originally was for all the Hebrews to be priests unto Him.

What a load of bollocks!

Do I have to spell it? L-e-v-i-t-i-c-u-s as in Lat. plural genitive of the name L-e-v-i one of Jacob's sons. It means "Book of the Levites" - the priests, who were to replace the system of firstborns (think the order is given in Numbers somewhere). Levi tribe had no land of his own, but they ran the Temple business and the synagogues and lived by the sacrifices the other tribes payed as ransoms for their sins and uncleanness or for thanksgiving or other things that the Torah orders.

ETA: Your reply is a very creative one, I'll give you credit for that. But the given laws are counted among 'the ceremonial laws' and restricts what could happen within the walls of the Temple and where the Levites lived while on duty.

a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

LOL. "Paul".

Yep, his words OOZE with the love of Jesus.

Let's Compare.

Mark 12:31 The Greatest Commandment …

30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." 32The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM;…

Vs Paul threatening Corinth, because they doubted his Apostleship.

2 Corinthians 13
This will be my third visit to you. “Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”[a] 2 I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others, 3 since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me....

Yep. That's "Paul" for you. Turning the other cheek, not casting the first stone, and showing the Jesus inside him, preaching "his" Gospel. Classy. Clearly, an Apostle after God's own heart. YHWH's the tribal war God's heart, that is. Not El Elyon's.



For the really short, abridged, readable version of John's methodology in finding false apostles, and basics of that methodology by contrasting / questioning the writings and actions of "Paul", you can start here.

What a load of bollocks!

Do I have to spell it? L-e-v-i-t-i-c-u-s as in Lat. plural genitive of the name L-e-v-i one of Jacob's sons. It means "Book of the Levites" - the priests, who were to replace the system of firstborns (think the order is given in Numbers somewhere). Levi tribe had no land of his own, but they ran the Temple business and the synagogues and lived by the sacrifices the other tribes payed as ransoms for their sins and uncleanness or for thanksgiving or other things that the Torah orders.

ETA: Your reply is a very creative one, I'll give you credit for that. But the given laws are counted among 'the ceremonial laws' and restricts what could happen within the walls of the Temple and where the Levites lived while on duty.

Come with me to Exodus chapter 19. Lets go with verses 1-6:
In the third month after the children of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, on the same day, they came to the Wilderness of Sinai.
For they had departed from Rephidim, had come to the Wilderness of Sinai, and camped in the wilderness. So Israel camped there before the mountain.
And Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain, saying, “Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel:
‘You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to Myself.
‘Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine.
‘And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”

3 months out of Egypt and they're not even discussing territory yet. Moses goes up the mountain later on for 40 days and nights to commune with GOD and receive the commandments. Meanwhile, the children of Israel play the whore and prostitute themselves to worship a golden calf. Moses comes down and beholds the whole thing.

Exodus 32:26-28 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him.
And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour. And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.
From that point on, the idea of a nation of priests was reduced to one tribe who were faithful to GOD in the midst of great idolatry. And yes, you are right the Levites had no inheritance. GOD told them He would be their inheritance.
And today, when much of Jewish/Hebrew genealogy has been lost, Levi and Cohen are unique in the DNA they carry. Priests that carry a unique genetic sequence. Their unique inheritance has stood the test of time.

GOD wanted a priestly nation, and ended up with a priestly tribe.

But the given laws are counted among 'the ceremonial laws' and restricts what could happen within the walls of the Temple and where the Levites lived while on duty.

There was no temple when the instructions came. Only a camp.
The Levitical commands were to tell the Levites how to proceed with the sacrifices, offerings, issues of purity, what to do with the blood. The commands also told the people the behaviour that was expected of them before they approached, and what was not acceptable living to the Holy GOD they were intending to approach.
Or to put it another way: A book informs the keepers of a mosque how they should run it, all the rules, regulations. That same book also tells those approaching that they cannot enter with their shoes on. The book explains specific sets of rules for specific parties.

I know I am late into the discussion here, and since I am tired with this whole subject, and I am not really replying to either of you, but please consider the following:

The question people should ask themselves is not whether Jesus mentioned gays, he did, he included everyone, gays and foreigners too (eventually), and the obese, and the left-handed ones, he even generally loved his enemies (for what would life be without them? Rather boring, aye?). What they have to ask themselves is: Did Jesus ever exclude anyone? Gay or not? Well, there actually is one story in particular in the Bible where Jesus did just that. But he changed his mind when he realised she were clever and engineered a rhetorical turning-point to him. Turning the table so to speak. Either this bit shows that Jesus was a very busy man, which is the likely version, or he rejected the woman for racist reasons displaying biases to non-Jews or "goyim" (which he does elsewhere too btw):

And from there he arose and went away to the region of Tyre and Sidon. And he entered a house and did not want anyone to know, yet he could not be hidden. But immediately a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard of him and came and fell down at his feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, a Syrophoenician by birth. And she begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. And he said to her, “Let the children be fed first, for it is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” But she answered him, “Yes, Lord; yet even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.” And he said to her, “For this statement you may go your way; the demon has left your daughter.” And she went home and found the child lying in bed and the demon gone. [ESV] Mark 7:24-30

Here goes: For a Christian, is it right to reject or ignore suffering children or their begging mothers -or little dogs for that matter because of this statement? BTW, Jesus seems to have a bias against pigs too. Can Christian eat hotdogs?

"FORGET the gays already, it's BACON you shall hate! Run to the HILLS!"

Living like Jesus and Paul lived, means basically living like Muslims or Hasidim.

BTW. King James Version was written by Francis Bacon. He was good as bacon if you ask me. It's not that kind of bacon, so it's quite complicated.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

LOL. "Paul".

Yep, his words OOZE with the love of Jesus.

Let's Compare.

Mark 12:31 The Greatest Commandment …

30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' 31"The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these." 32The scribe said to Him, "Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM;…

Vs Paul threatening Corinth, because they doubted his Apostleship.

2 Corinthians 13
This will be my third visit to you. “Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”[a] 2 I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others, 3 since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me....

Yep. That's "Paul" for you. Turning the other cheek, not casting the first stone, and showing the Jesus inside him, preaching "his" Gospel. Classy. Clearly, an Apostle after God's own heart. YHWH's the tribal war God's heart, that is. Not El Elyon's.

For the really short, abridged, readable version of John's methodology in finding false apostles, and basics of that methodology by contrasting / questioning the writings and actions of "Paul", you can start here.

Ok, lets go with that. Paul started a church in Corinth. 1 Corinthians tells us how later on, a number of issues that were going on in the church were destroying/dividing it. Paul brought these issues to the attention of the church elders and told them they needed to deal with it, and told them how best to deal with it. It would appear they didn't deal with it. 1 Corinthian = 1st warning. 2 Corinthians has elements to suggest a 2nd warning. He is now preparing to come a 3rd time, and if necessary 'not spare those who sinned'.....do you think he is planning to kill them or something?!?
No. Let me tell you what he was planning to do: Exactly what Jesus told His disciples to do. The same Jesus whose words "ooze with love" that Paul is preparing to lay out:
Matthew 18:15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. (First time rebuke).
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ (Second time rebuke).
Matthew 18:17 “And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. (Third and final rebuke).
There were people in the church that Paul confronted by himself, then with others (hence his reference to "Every matter established by 2 or 3 witnesses), and was finally preparing to confront, nay 'shame' in front of the rest of the church.

There is nothing he did that isn't what Jesus commanded.


You make a distinction between YHWH and El Elyon. As both are Hebrew descriptions of GOD, what are you suggesting here?
Jesus said 'Before Abraham was, I AM'. making Himself equal with GOD.
Names define GOD's character: YHWH Shalom, YHWH Jireh, YHWH Nissi, El Gibor, El Shaddai, El Elyon. These are not different God's, they reveal different aspects of His very nature and being.
I don't just call my wife, 'Wife'.

a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

Jesus said 'Before Abraham was, I AM'. making Himself equal with GOD.

That's just wrong...

to a jew perhaps that means he made himself equal... but they were clueless as to what he meant... similar to most Christians today

Jesus clarified his position for all to see that actually bother to read as opposed to just listening to preachers...

The Father is greater then all... The servant is not greater then the master...

Jesus was not equal to his Father... period

a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

You make a distinction between YHWH and El Elyon. As both are Hebrew descriptions of GOD,

The Hebrews were polytheists. They had many gods over time. YHWH and El Elyon are two of them.

Jesus said 'Before Abraham was, I AM'. making Himself equal with GOD.

No it doesn't, Not unless everyone that believes in reincarnation is making themselves equal with God. And, if reincarnation is true, many of us were here before Abraham.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The question people should ask themselves is not whether Jesus mentioned gays, he did, he included everyone, gays and foreigners too (eventually), and the obese, and the left-handed ones, he even generally loved his enemies (for what would life be without them? Rather boring, aye?). What they have to ask themselves is: Did Jesus ever exclude anyone? Gay or not? Well, there actually is one story in particular in the Bible where Jesus did just that. But he changed his mind when he realised she were clever and engineered a rhetorical turning-point to him. Turning the table so to speak. Either this bit shows that Jesus was a very busy man, which is the likely version, or he rejected the woman for racist reasons displaying biases to non-Jews or "goyim" (which he does elsewhere too btw):

And from there he arose and went away to the region of Tyre and Sidon. And he entered a house and did not want anyone to know, yet he could not be hidden. But immediately a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard of him and came and fell down at his feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, a Syrophoenician by birth. And she begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. And he said to her, “Let the children be fed first, for it is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” But she answered him, “Yes, Lord; yet even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.” And he said to her, “For this statement you may go your way; the demon has left your daughter.” And she went home and found the child lying in bed and the demon gone. [ESV] Mark 7:24-30

You have taken an entire encounter out of context. Seriously. I am referring to the Syro-Phoenician woman, and I'll get back to that.
Firstly, Did Jesus ever exclude anyone? No.
'Come to Me all you who labour and I will give you rest'. 'I am the light of the world. He who follows Me Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.
'I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyoneone eats of this bread he will live forever.....'

Jesus was pretty inclusive with His promises and rewards. He was also very exclusive. 'No man comes to the Father except through Me.Me.
The promises of fullness, salvation, forgiveness, redemption, light, and eternal life are found in following Him (so He says). If anyone would come after Him to discover and pursue that life, they must die to self, take up their cross daily and follow Him.
That is the price of following Him. What is your cross that you must take up daily?
What if that meant not being able to drink again for the rest of your life? What if that meant being celibate? What if that meant selling everything you had? What if that meant reaching out to people you hate with every fibre of your being?
The list is endless, and every cross is different. We find LIFE, when we lay down our own. That's the oxymoron of it. It's that simple, and it's that hard. A surrendered life to Jesus creates the space for Him to live His life in us the way He sees fit. And that life is resurrection life.
That's how I see it, and I will never stop running that race as long as I have breath.

I will come back to the issue of the Syro phonecian woman, but I really need to go to bed right now.
Consider this, though......people received from jesus because they had faith in Him. They recognised in Him an authority to do such things. The Roman centurion is another example, in fact he is an example of faith that goes beyond that of most of Jesus' Jewish hearers/followers! Same with the Phonecian woman. She recognised Jesus authority and power, even if many of His listeners didn't. She was essentially saying, 'You're throwing food to the ignorant. They don't get it, but I DO. How about a crumb?' And Jesus is like, 'Sure, I can do that'. Faith is faith.

a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

I heard the same thing with my fundamental teachers. They lied to me. They replaced Paul with Jesus. Again, Jesus's words were clear. Why do you need Paul? Who do you follow? Christ, or Paul?

Your paperwork is out of order.

So many words you wrote, yet the direct comparison to what Jesus said, and what Paul said, are not addressed.

Like what John wrote about false apostles rejecting what the 12 said (paul did).. Just for starters.

Rev 2:2 was taking about Paul.

Ps, was Cyrus Confused about Isaiah 45? Seems Marduk was most high according to him, and Enlil, not so much.

The Text of his Cylinder was pretty clear.

a reply to: windword

The Hebrews were polytheists. They had many gods over time. YHWH and El Elyon are two of them.

Jesus said 'Before Abraham was, I AM'. making Himself equal with GOD.


No it doesn't, Not unless everyone that believes in reincarnation is making themselves equal with God. And, if reincarnation is true, many of us were here before Abraham.

Moses -"Whom shall I say sent me?"
GOD -"Tell them I AM sent you".
'Hear O Israel, the LORD our GOD, the LORD is ONE.'

Did the Hebrews start to worship other gods? Certainly. Abraham the Father of the Hebrews was called from idol worship.
Jesus didn't believe in reincarnation.
Time is a linear construct to us. GOD is outside of time and not subject to it.
Moses said to GOD 'Show me Your glory' in Exodus. Fast forward to Mount of Transfiguration in the blinking of an eye and Moses beholds the glory of GOD in Jesus, along with Elijah on a mountain. And then he's back in the cleft of the rock in the wilderness.

a reply to: Not Authorized

I heard the same thing with my fundamental teachers. They lied to me. They replaced Paul with Jesus. Again, Jesus's words were clear. Why do you need Paul?

So many words you wrote, yet the direct comparison to what Jesus said, and what Paul said, are not addressed.

Like what John wrote about false apostles rejecting what the 12 said (paul did).. Just for starters.

Try me. To what are you referring?
And do I NEED Paul? Arguably no, particularly if I was a Jew. Paul is talking to gentiles who are not immersed in the 'Jewishness' of the disciples and their background.
How is the direct comparison between what Jesus said and what Paul said not addressed?
What did John write about false apostles rejecting what the 12 said? What did Paul reject that the 12 said?
And don't post You Tube clips as a response. Speak for yourself, please. Do you think Jews and Gentiles can eat together?

a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

Did you miss the link under the video provided? The short abridged version? It is all text. It should take you 15 minutes to read. It compares what John wrote about false apostles, and what Paul directly said in his own works.

Or shall i reinvent the wheel, when that link goes into detail so well?

Or you can just Google "Paul False Apostle Scripture Evidence"

Try me? Try fighting the internet on that one. Good luck.

That's just wrong...

to a jew perhaps that means he made himself equal... but they were clueless as to what he meant... similar to most Christians today

Jesus clarified his position for all to see that actually bother to read as opposed to just listening to preachers...

The Father is greater then all... The servant is not greater then the master...

Jesus was not equal to his Father... period

a reply to: Akragon
We can certainly read in some of Pauls' letters (not a popular choice for some on here,) that Jesus Himself is subject to and submits to the Father after all things have been brought under His feet/ made subject to Him.
But there's an interesting line in Johns' gospel from doubting Thomas.
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
A startling comment from Thomas. Why didn't Jesus rebuke him for calling Him GOD? Instead, He called him 'blessed'.
What do you think?

originally posted by: Lucius Driftwood
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The question people should ask themselves is not whether Jesus mentioned gays, he did, he included everyone, gays and foreigners too (eventually), and the obese, and the left-handed ones, he even generally loved his enemies (for what would life be without them? Rather boring, aye?). What they have to ask themselves is: Did Jesus ever exclude anyone? Gay or not? Well, there actually is one story in particular in the Bible where Jesus did just that. But he changed his mind when he realised she were clever and engineered a rhetorical turning-point to him. Turning the table so to speak. Either this bit shows that Jesus was a very busy man, which is the likely version, or he rejected the woman for racist reasons displaying biases to non-Jews or "goyim" (which he does elsewhere too btw):

And from there he arose and went away to the region of Tyre and Sidon. And he entered a house and did not want anyone to know, yet he could not be hidden. But immediately a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit heard of him and came and fell down at his feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, a Syrophoenician by birth. And she begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. And he said to her, “Let the children be fed first, for it is not right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” But she answered him, “Yes, Lord; yet even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.” And he said to her, “For this statement you may go your way; the demon has left your daughter.” And she went home and found the child lying in bed and the demon gone. [ESV] Mark 7:24-30

You have taken an entire encounter out of context. Seriously. I am referring to the Syro-Phoenician woman, and I'll get back to that.
Firstly, Did Jesus ever exclude anyone? No.
'Come to Me all you who labour and I will give you rest'. 'I am the light of the world. He who follows Me Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.
'I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyoneone eats of this bread he will live forever.....'

I wasn't really replying to your post here, I pulled this one out of the book to get people to get their eyes up for the bigotry of hating their gay neighbours while eating hotdogs rolled in bacon. A bit of a sidetrack perhaps, but the story not only shows the only place in the Bible where Jesus changes his mind about something, it also shows him regretting being racist.

Jesus was pretty inclusive with His promises and rewards. He was also very exclusive. 'No man comes to the Father except through Me.Me.

Yes, here Jesus says that you can only reach the Godhead through the Ego, in the meditative state, or the state of death or birth, when you see all. I can't show you God, you must first consume your own spirit and be 'the me' or 'the I', he will appear for you behind closed eyes, often in absolute light or utter darkness. He likes his puns.

The promises of fullness, salvation, forgiveness, redemption, light, and eternal life are found in following Him (so He says). If anyone would come after Him to discover and pursue that life, they must die to self, take up their cross daily and follow Him.

Which [Him] is actually completely arbitrary in regard to the 'Me' in the inline quote above. Unless you see this as his Way, which is also the Truth and Life perhaps?

That is the price of following Him. What is your cross that you must take up daily?

What's that supposed to mean?

What if that meant not being able to drink again for the rest of your life?

And what is that supposed to mean? I've had my turns with the bottle, but in general I don't drink alcohol. Doesn't work well with my prescription.

What if that meant being celibate?

Story of my life. I've been practically a monk for greater parts of my life. What is your point with this?

What if that meant selling everything you had?

Been there done that

What if that meant reaching out to people you hate with every fibre of your being?

Fibre? and what's with the preaching? Are you my soul's keeper?

The Roman centurion is another example, in fact he is an example of faith that goes beyond that of most of Jesus' Jewish hearers/followers!

I would like to hear your take on my old thread here that sort of died out that I intend to bring back to life (pun intended) ==> www.abovetopsecret.com...

ETA: When Jesus died, he was handed over to the richest man in Jerusalem and the best physician around at the time. A decorated officer gave his life for him. They offered Jesus opium and served refreshments while on the cross, and upon his going unconscious the Centurion goes, "Certainly, he was a son of the gods!" and he declared him dead, probably while taken down, by sticking a finger into the wound on Jesus' left side and extract hemothorax between the chest and diafragm and the lungs, practically performing surgery in front of people lying about it, eventhough any legionary would identify this scene as a soldier healing a person from a punctured lung which Jesus suffered by the hands of Annas et al. But that's a sidetrack, though relevant in some respect. Things are not always as they seem.

a reply to: Not Authorized

Did you miss the link under the video provided? The short abridged version? It is all text. It should take you 15 minutes to read. It compares what John wrote about false apostles, and what Paul directly said in his own works.

Or shall i reinvent the wheel, when that link goes into detail so well?

Or you can just Google "Paul False Apostle Scripture Evidence"

Try me? Try fighting the internet on that one. Good luck.

You're ok for another source to speak on your behalf for you?
I thought maybe you could break down your ideas with a few simple thoughts. I'll WILL have a look at it later, but I'd rather here what you think than what an outside source says you think.
And I'm not here to fight anyone. Arguably, defence and attack are two forms of fight, but I don't go for the aggressive argument. But then how can one passively stand their ground either?
Do you believe that ANY of the bible is the word of GOD? If so, how much? If not, what exactly does Jesus mean to you, and why would you care if a Jewish rabbi with poor social interaction skills ran with the things He said?

a reply to: Lucius Driftwood

I find it rather amusing that this one passage is always used when people attempt to claim he is God...

He probably did rebuke him, IF Thomas even said that at all...

One follower (the doubting one) says "my God" and everything Jesus actually said is tossed out the window?

Does that make any sense to you?

Through out the gospels Jesus makes it clear he is the son of God, not God in the flesh...

And he even denies being God or claiming to be God in John 10: 31-38

This little passage was more then likely added to the story to reinforce the idea the early church wanted to promote...

I find it rather amusing that this one passage is always used when people attempt to claim he is God...

He probably did rebuke him, IF Thomas even said that at all...

One follower (the doubting one) says "my God" and everything Jesus actually said is tossed out the window?

Does that make any sense to you?

Through out the gospels Jesus makes it clear he is the son of God, not God in the flesh...

And he even denies being God or claiming to be God in John 10: 31-38

This little passage was more then likely added to the story to reinforce the idea the early church wanted to promote...

a reply to: Akragon

Throughout the gospels Jesus also called Himself the Son of Man as well. And LORD of the Sabaoth.
He irked the Pharisees by declaring a man's sins forgiven.
Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Luke 5:21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
“But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”