Did Jesus say anything about gay folk?.

a reply to: DarknStormy

Except Christians follow the entire book... or at least most think they do

that's why Christianity is such a mess...

Instead of trying to follow their saviour, they follow the entire book

a reply to: DarknStormy

Because I'm really really tired of people, attacking others over sexual choices, over supposed words, that when you dig into it, describe events that never happened. Sorry, they just didn't. It's like a school yard fight, with all sides saying my God is bigger than your God. Yet everyone who supports such nonsense is afraid to look under the skirt in depth, as they know what they will find.

And people, who want nothing to do with such nonsense are caught in the middle. When they speak up, they are slammed down by alleged authority of scripture with idiotic quips of "well, prove my God said otherwise". When those themselves saying such things, offer no evidence it was ever true to begin with. Shall we add some Buddhism writings, or Indian sacred texts too into this discussion with the same weight? What if I dig into Gnostic texts? How about the ancient Greek pantheon? Did they have anything to offer about homosexuality?

My point is thus. You are right, if the most important words are followed.

Are you treating others, in all ways, like yourself? Yes, that includes how you treat homosexuals. They have just as much of a right to be gay, as you are heterosexual.

Anything less, is a disservice to the words of your Jesus. I have no need for any God, that drives his followers to oppress others. That is making God, in man's image, with his own failings.

I believe in a much larger, accepting, and forgiving God. Maybe one day, you will see him.

a reply to: DarknStormy

So, I only linked to a source about slavery because you said you were waiting for one. I didn't know there was a case to argue about slavery in the scripture but, that's another topic. I'm sorry you found my source so despicable. I'm sorry it doesn't hold water compared to ancient scriptures (the source my link used). For the record, it was only your comment I called retarded, and not you.

What did Jesus have to say about homosexuality? As far as I know, not a single thing. This means we don't know whether he approved, or condemned. Now there are those who cite Jesus and his references to the Old Testament laws as still in effect. This of course implies that Jesus does not approve. But then you get the camp of people who interpret the scriptures and say the old laws were abolished, and praise Jesus we can eat shellfish again without risking damnation. Still others make the claim he never referenced those laws. Then again, if you also believe Jesus is God than he did voice his stance on homosexuality back in the OT, so why go back over covered territory? I mean how can two beings that are one and the same, have differing opinions? No skin off my nose, I'm not a seafood person. Though I would ask people who claim the old laws are still in effect, if they are as zealous in regards to half the other bizarre rules as they are the homosexual one. This leads me to where my initial posts came from.

It's true, simply put, I no longer believe in Yahweh as "the big guy upstairs". For reasons I've cited in previous posts, and other reasons, which fall into the categories of history, science, religion, mythology, and culture, to name some. It has been proven to me that Yahweh is not what the Bible, or its plethora of interpretations and offshoots, claim him to be. Because of that, all those rules etc. don't have any more value on them, then what people place on them. I'm not saying there are zero positive messages in the Bible, or that there aren't good "rules to live by". Some have a negative effect on people though.

Since I don't believe in Yahweh, I obviously don't believe he ever said any of the things attributed to him. Likewise, I don't believe Jesus Christ was his son/him. So who cares what his stance was? Whether or not Jesus Christ was a real man or not is debatable, I have heard several good arguments from both sides. Regardless, his stance on gays is clear.

Nobody knows because we all interpret scripture differently. And who said what, when, and why, differently! I think this thread proves that. Why no consensus on the issue from the Christian community? Because people are trying to interpret the texts as if they come from a divine source. IMHO.

originally posted by: Not Authorized

Because I'm really really tired of people, attacking others over sexual choices, over supposed words, that when you dig into it, describe events that never happened. Sorry, they just didn't. It's like a school yard fight, with all sides saying my God is bigger than your God. Yet everyone who supports such nonsense is afraid to look under the skirt in depth, as they know what they will find.

I haven't been attacking people over their sexual choices.. I have used the Bible to defend my stance in regards to the question posed and now I'm being attacked.

And people, who want nothing to do with such nonsense are caught in the middle.

Yes on both sides...

When they speak up, they are slammed down by alleged authority of scripture with idiotic quips of "well, prove my God said otherwise". When those themselves saying such things, offer no evidence it was ever true to begin with. Shall we add some Buddhism writings, or Indian sacred texts too into this discussion with the same weight? What if I dig into Gnostic texts? How about the ancient Greek pantheon? Did they have anything to offer about homosexuality?

I don't know, maybe you can make up a thread about it and we can discuss it.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
I have used the Bible to defend my stance in regards to the question posed and now I'm being attacked.

Ik this isn't directed at me but I feel I should apologize for my part.

I don't know if you feel I've attacked you, but I am aware that sometimes I should speak with more compassion towards others. Especially over the internet where sometimes the tone of a comment can be hard to figure out. I am sorry for talking at you, and not with you. I could have said the same things in this thread that I have, in an entirely different way.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

No need to apologize, I went through this earlier on in the thread when it comes to respecting a religious persons views regardless of whether religion itself is crap, real or who really knows. Now people are trying the old "Why cant you just" crap.. They want people to accept homosexual's for who they are etc but when someone doesn't and even with reason in some cases, they cannot accept the person's view who may disagree. Next thing you know, the entire religion is being attacked because you don't agree with them and their belief's or you are called a bigot/homophobe in other cases.

Who's actually non-negotiable here? I have explained my stance towards Homosexuality, I have no issue or say over what any other person does in their life.. It seems as though it's the Pro-Homosexual crowd that have trouble with seeing a different perspective outside their own. Maybe it's the herd mentality, I don't know...

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

You raised some good points which many people have (and even I had before):

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
That said, it's almost as though Jesus was sent to apologise and explain for 'his father's' utter fk ups and cruelty and that no matter what he is claimed to have said, he still represented that psycho god with all the freaky laws, rules and condoning - if not outright promotion - of really bizarre behaviours.

Jesus did not represent a murdering god. Jesus said that a time will come where they will kick you out of places of worship and try to kill you thinking that they are doing an offering to God (John 16:2). Jesus warned that they will do this because they have never known God - The Heavenly Father (John 16:3).

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
I want to like Jesus, but he never said, "Ok guys, look, here's the thing. We need to stop following all this crazy stuff and get real about loving each other."

But he did.

All of those verses saying to 'stone' and 'kill' people in the old testament, Jesus said not to follow it. When they tried to stone a woman to death Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone (John 8:7) but no one is perfect and Jesus himself did not stone her, which shows his true feelings on this subject.

Jesus also said not to trade a life for a life, an eye for an eye , and a tooth for a tooth, instead of everyone killing each other we should be more forgiving and turn the other cheek. (Matthew 5:39)

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
He seems to have been bound by the culture and time he was born into, so I then ask myself, I wonder why he wasn't born now so he could make use of a more freer and less backwards time, to better promote love and fellowship?

The positive influence was needed back then. Imagine if there were no monotheistic religion telling people not to stone others and not to seek revenge but to forgive, things would be much worse. People would be killing for their gods. There would be even less unity. Things were already bad (crusades, etc.) and that was WITH all of the help of Christ's Teachings, imagine if there were none at all.

Marcion of Sinope was the first Christian leader in recorded history to propose and delineate a uniquely Christian canon (c. 140 AD) but he was seen as a heretic. He tried to tell people that there is no way Christ's teachings can be related to the OT because there are many contradictions such as the "eye for an eye" (revenge) and the "turn the other cheek" (forgiveness) thing. You can either follow one or the other but not both at the same time, but they excommunicated him for pointing out all of the contradictions between Christ's Teachings and the OT.

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
Every answer I come up with is, because he was just a man and had as much choice of when he was born as I did, he was as fallible as I am and all this focus on something that happened 2000 years ago is killing us.

Killing us. This thing which is suppose to be enlightening us, is killing us dead and doing us harm.

This is because people want to follow and force others to follow physical things such as holy books, priests, popes, instead of being guided by The Spirit (Compassion/Love).

Jesus points out that the scriptures are a good resource, but it cannot help you , only The Spirit (Compassion/Love) and Jesus who was the only one around teaching at this at the time can (John 5:39-40).

Compassion (treating others as you would like to be treated) is the truth,
and The Truth shall set us Free.

We only have to choices:
Follow The Spirit (Compassion)
or live in bondage with everyone trying to take advantage of everyone else.

Paul realized this, too:

Galatians 5:14-15
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
But if you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

a reply to: arpgme

If all christians could talk to non-christian like that, we wouldn't ever have issues. Bloody good work.

I'm not going to address your post, aside from saying that I read it all and see above.

Oops forgot about this thread lol.

The thing is people choose to follow 2000+ year old rules written by men not God.
Times have changed and If they still choose to hate feck em.
The world has evolved and they will be left behind.
In a couple of generations people will look back at these folk the same as we look back at the racists who hated black people.
Oh and no one has proved Jesus said anything...just very vague things especially with the new translations which were obviosly translated that way to back up the hate they have in their hearts.

"I don't hate gays but"......Pfft lies you are homophobes it is that simple at least admit it.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Whatever... Don't ask the question next time if you don't like an honest answer. Bloody Commies.

a reply to: DarknStormy

Wake up the world has moved on.
Gay people can get married and such and seeing you don't follow a religion I can only guess why you choose to hate.

It was a loaded question because Jesus did not write any words down...he said nothing only other people did many years ago in a different time.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: boymonkey74

Whatever... Don't ask the question next time if you don't like an honest answer. Bloody Commies.

Lol commie? oh because Iam a socialist you think Iam a commie....nope and guess what Jesus was a socialist also.

a reply to: arpgme

A great example of a True Christian you are...not many about.
Well done.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: DarknStormy

Wake up the world has moved on.
Gay people can get married and such and seeing you don't follow a religion I can only guess why you choose to hate.

Yeah they could do it in Germany in the 1920's also more open than what they can today.. Then Adolf Hitler rose too power. Today's world isn't some brand new revolution for Homosexuals, Do you people think you are the first to try and liberate Homosexuals or something? Get over yourselves and as of right now, no My country does not allow Homosexual marriage and even when it was allowed for the short time it was the government straight away declined it n Canberra.

So my country must not be in your New Age Global community status I guess?

a reply to: DarknStormy

When the homphobes die off it will.



Oh and here is a great song I hope you listen to the words and take it in..

originally posted by: boymonkey74

When the homphobes die off it will.

Not going to happen...

a reply to: DarknStormy

Oh you all will.
Sure their may be a few left in a couple of generations just like we have people who do not like black people.
But the law will change where you are..only a matter of time.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: DarknStormy

Oh you all will.
Sure their may be a few left in a couple of generations just like we have people who do not like black people.
But the law will change where you are..only a matter of time.

What is it with you people? I'm sure my government are saving it up for one of those years when they want to earn a few extra votes from the Homosexual community to win an election... I have no doubt. But, that's where politics is at I guess... But I wont change and neither will my view. My view is mine and no-one can take that even with their rules and regulations.. If I have to, I will go to jail, I don't care.

I'm the same with Zionism, if someone wants to prosecute me because of my views, go for it.. I'll wave my finger at you when I'm getting in the Meat truck. Trust me, I have been through a lot worse than an argument about homosexuals.

a reply to: DarknStormy

It doesn't work that way. We don't change our politics for the sake of a small win like that. We're just as stubborn as everyone else and quite often - even more conservative.

I'm not gonna defend myself argueing with hypocritical nonsense.Anyone,Anyone,Anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who reads the entire bible,That means every single part of the bible can find DarkStormy was showing the words of Jesus Christ himself about homosexualty.
Under no circumstances whatsoever are christians to mass murder or kill homosexuals and christians will allow homosexuals to change the law of the land so they can get married.Homosexuals will demand to get married in any church they demand is the next step.
I say allow them to destroy freedom because United States is not God.Let them change the laws and watch the world sink and country morals sink even further.Next step is to attack the churches freedom.They will do it with government anyway they can and pretend it is freedom.